web friendly video codec choice? How to get there from ATI's mpeg2/4?

[Todd H.]

A buddy of mine was recently featured on a short clip on a national TV
show. With my ATI TV Wonder VE tv tuner card, I captured the show and
have the .vcr file which plays in ATI Multimedia Center's file player.
ATI MMC has export options only to "mpeg2" and "mpeg4." One option
produces a .mpg, the other a .avi. Unfortunately, I have tried both
mpeg2 and mpeg4 exports, and while they played back fine on the
machine with the ATI drivers/programs/codecs on it, Windows Media
Player could not play back the video on my other machine, a very up to
date win2k box.

What I'd like to do is downsample the quality to a lower resolution
(to minimize file size--file is 100mb right now) and encode with a
codec that's in wide distribution so I can post it on a web page and
share the video with friends.

I do have access to Gentoo Linux with a bunch of command line video
toys on it including transcode, mplayer, and the like (not that I know
how to use them just yet), but I'm not sure what the low hanging fruit
of video codecs is. I want to encode with something that a stock
Windows user will have or would be auto downloaded on demand.

Anyone tackled this issue or point me to good resources on this
problem? As common an issue as I would think it is, I've thus far
been unsuccessful in googling up a good FAQ on it. TIA for any advice
or pointers!

Best Regards,

 

[Lenard]

A buddy of mine was recently featured on a short clip on a national TV
show. With my ATI TV Wonder VE tv tuner card, I captured the show and
have the .vcr file which plays in ATI Multimedia Center's file player.
ATI MMC has export options only to "mpeg2" and "mpeg4." One option
produces a .mpg, the other a .avi. Unfortunately, I have tried both
mpeg2 and mpeg4 exports, and while they played back fine on the
machine with the ATI drivers/programs/codecs on it, Windows Media
Player could not play back the video on my other machine, a very up to
date win2k box.

This problem has nothing to do with Linux, this is a Microsoft Windows
problem which can be solved by visiting;

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/win.html

 

[Steve King]

This problem has nothing to do with Linux, this is a Microsoft Windows
problem which can be solved by visiting;

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/win.html

Where you will find the suggestion to encode to Quicktime, which will not
play on 90% of the computers in the world without going to the extra effort
of seeking out and downloading the QT player.

It is not a Windows problem. I suspect it to be a problem with the ATI
tuner card's export software.

Steve King

 

[Sloane]

You could try ffdshow. This codec plays both formats well.

Cobbler

 

[Lenard]

Actuallly the question has quite a bit to do with Linux.
transcode specifically. If you read on to see the inquiry regarding
transcode under Gentoo as a possible tool for conversion the source
mpegs or avi's into something that is more cross-platform friendly.

Both avi and mpg formats you mention below are very cross platform
compatible. Microsoft choose not to support these formats with their media
player in favor of the formats they want the world to use. This is what got
them in trouble in Europe and what is currently causing an uproar in
Massachusetts over ODF.

I appreciate your attempt to help nonetheless.

mplayer under Gentoo plays these files ATI Multimedia exported,
however, the default media player for Windows (Windows Media Player)
does not. I'm hoping to avoid having people need to download
Quicktime player (which many don't have) if I can transcode the files
into something that WMP groks by default. I'm just not sure what that
might be.

The Quicktime player for Windows, can be downloaded and added to the CD by
you. FYI: since you made mention of mplayer, did you know you can download
and also add the mplayer for Windows on the CD;

http://ftp5.mplayerhq.hu/mplayer/releases/win32/

If others have experience on using transcode to increase the
cross-platform friendliness of a given video file, I'd still welcome
the input!

The two potential source files I have are .avi's and .mpgs Mplayer
detects them nicely as shown below, if it helps in guiding conversion
options:

movie.avi

Cache fill: 0.00% (0 bytes) AVI file format detected.
VIDEO: [DIVX] 480x240 24bpp 29.970 fps 5483.2 kbps (669.3 kbyte/s)
==========================================================================
Opening audio decoder: [mp3lib] MPEG layer-2, layer-3
AUDIO: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 128.0 kbit/9.07% (ratio: 16000->176400)
Selected audio codec: [mp3] afm:mp3lib (mp3lib MPEG layer-2, layer-3)

==========================================================================

If you have the codecs available (installed) change this to wmv/wma

FILENAME.mpg:

Cache fill: 0.00% (0 bytes) MPEG-PS file format detected.
VIDEO: MPEG2 480x240 (aspect 2) 29.970 fps 9600.0 kbps (1200.0
kbyte/s)
==========================================================================
Opening audio decoder: [mp3lib] MPEG layer-2, layer-3 AUDIO: 44100 Hz, 2
ch, s16le, 224.0 kbit/15.87% (ratio: 28000->176400) Selected audio
codec: [mp3] afm:mp3lib (mp3lib MPEG layer-2, layer-3)

==========================================================================

Ditto.

 

[Todd H.]

This problem has nothing to do with Linux,

Actuallly the question has quite a bit to do with Linux.
transcode specifically. If you read on to see the inquiry regarding
transcode under Gentoo as a possible tool for conversion the source
mpegs or avi's into something that is more cross-platform friendly.

I appreciate your attempt to help nonetheless.

mplayer under Gentoo plays these files ATI Multimedia exported,
however, the default media player for Windows (Windows Media Player)
does not. I'm hoping to avoid having people need to download
Quicktime player (which many don't have) if I can transcode the files
into something that WMP groks by default. I'm just not sure what that
might be.

If others have experience on using transcode to increase the
cross-platform friendliness of a given video file, I'd still welcome
the input!

The two potential source files I have are .avi's and .mpgs Mplayer
detects them nicely as shown below, if it helps in guiding conversion
options:

movie.avi

Cache fill: 0.00% (0 bytes) AVI file format detected.
VIDEO: [DIVX] 480x240 24bpp 29.970 fps 5483.2 kbps (669.3 kbyte/s)
==========================================================================
Opening audio decoder: [mp3lib] MPEG layer-2, layer-3
AUDIO: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 128.0 kbit/9.07% (ratio: 16000->176400)
Selected audio codec: [mp3] afm:mp3lib (mp3lib MPEG layer-2, layer-3)
==========================================================================


FILENAME.mpg:

Cache fill: 0.00% (0 bytes) MPEG-PS file format detected.
VIDEO: MPEG2 480x240 (aspect 2) 29.970 fps 9600.0 kbps (1200.0 kbyte/s)
==========================================================================
Opening audio decoder: [mp3lib] MPEG layer-2, layer-3
AUDIO: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 224.0 kbit/15.87% (ratio: 28000->176400)
Selected audio codec: [mp3] afm:mp3lib (mp3lib MPEG layer-2, layer-3)
==========================================================================



Best Regards,

 

[Michael Heiming]

This problem has nothing to do with Linux,

[..]

mplayer under Gentoo plays these files ATI Multimedia exported,
however, the default media player for Windows (Windows Media Player)
does not. I'm hoping to avoid having people need to download

Great, so install Linux problem solved.

 

[Todd H.]

Both avi and mpg formats you mention below are very cross platform
compatible. Microsoft choose not to support these formats with their media
player in favor of the formats they want the world to use. This is what got
them in trouble in Europe and what is currently causing an uproar in
Massachusetts over ODF.

Indeed. What's troubling is there are video formats that Microsoft's
media player plays quite happily within the AVI and MPG file format.
Just not with codec's (DivX MPEG-4, and ATI MPEG-2) the silly ATI
program exported the file.

What I'm attempting to unravel without much success just yet is a)
what codec would work that every leming windows user including my
buddy's grandma might already have installed, and b) what Linux tools
can be leveraged to convert what I have to the that encoding.

The Quicktime player for Windows, can be downloaded and added to the
CD by you. FYI: since you made mention of mplayer, did you know you
can download and also add the mplayer for Windows on the CD;

http://ftp5.mplayerhq.hu/mplayer/releases/win32/

That's good to know, and I appreciate the info. However, the goal
here is for distribution via a web page rather than a CD (as in "here
grandma, click this link in the email--it should work for you). So
the problem, as I've constrained it is for conversion of a given
avi/mpg into a file format with a video codec that is cross-platform
friendly and, most importantly, installed by default in windows media
player.

I'd have to think a free tool in Linux is up to the task of converting
the non-friendly crap that came from ATI Multimedia center into a
format that is readable by default on the lowest common denominator.
Unfortunately I just haven't found the linux video guru who knows how
to get it done just yet.

If you have the codecs available (installed) change this to wmv/wma

Which would be groovy.

But--is transcode the right tool for such a conversion? And if so,
I'm trying to hunt down the resources to unravel a command line that
would achieve it.

Thanks again for the time and insight into this.

Best Regards,

 

[Todd H.]

A buddy of mine was recently featured on a short clip on a national TV
show. With my ATI TV Wonder VE tv tuner card, I captured the show and
have the .vcr file which plays in ATI Multimedia Center's file player.
ATI MMC has export options only to "mpeg2" and "mpeg4." One option
produces a .mpg, the other a .avi. Unfortunately, I have tried both
mpeg2 and mpeg4 exports, and while they played back fine on the
machine with the ATI drivers/programs/codecs on it, Windows Media
Player could not play back the video on my other machine, a very up to
date win2k box.

What I'd like to do is downsample the quality to a lower resolution
(to minimize file size--file is 100mb right now) and encode with a
codec that's in wide distribution so I can post it on a web page and
share the video with friends.

I do have access to Gentoo Linux with a bunch of command line video
toys on it including transcode, mplayer, and the like (not that I know
how to use them just yet), but I'm not sure what the low hanging fruit
of video codecs is. I want to encode with something that a stock
Windows user will have or would be auto downloaded on demand.

Anyone tackled this issue or point me to good resources on this
problem? As common an issue as I would think it is, I've thus far
been unsuccessful in googling up a good FAQ on it. TIA for any advice
or pointers!

Howdy all,

Here's the flow that ended up working, offered for net.posterity:

1) export the .vcr file from ATI multimedia Center to mpeg4. This
creates a DivX MPEG-4 Version 4 encoded .AVI file. The file
started life as a 94MB AVI file exported from an ATI's .vcr file
that used "good" video quality for recording TV shows with their
digital VCR.

2) Under Linux, I used avisplit, a free Linux command line tool, to
trim out the portion of the show I wanted using time code markers.
E.g. to grab only from 14s to the 2min 50 sec portion of
my_file.avi, I did:

$ avisplit -i my_file.avi -c -o out.avi -t 00:00:14-00:02:50

out.avi was down to a still bulky 64MB.

3) Back on the Windows box that had ATI Multimedia center on it
(required because of the goofy codec used for the .AVI file), I
downloaded and installed Windows Media Encoder, a free tool from
Microsoft:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/9series/encoder/default.aspx

In Windows Media Encoder, I invoked the quick start wizard for
"Convert a File", when it asked how i wanted to distribute it, I
chose "Web server (progressive download)." On the next screen, I
chose "VHS video quality (CBR)" output file suitable for web
(progressive download). Some minutes later, I had a 4.5MB .wmv
file that still looked pretty darned good.


The resulting .wmv file seems to play fine for the Windows Media
Player crowd without requiring a codec download. A buddy tried it on
his Mac (which has Windows Media Player installed on it--who knew
Microsoft even made a version for Mac??) and it played fine. I could
not, however get it to play with any of the Linux file players which
was a bit of a bummer, but the "grandma" element has been served and
he's got the video clip up on his website.

Thanks to all who offered useful suggestions! You'd think ATI
could've made this a little friggin simpler in the codec realm. But
then again, most of their software seems to suck mightily so that it
even worked at all should have me giving thanks I suppose.


Best Regards,

 

[RS]

That's good to know, and I appreciate the info. However, the goal
here is for distribution via a web page rather than a CD (as in "here
grandma, click this link in the email--it should work for you). So
the problem, as I've constrained it is for conversion of a given
avi/mpg into a file format with a video codec that is cross-platform
friendly and, most importantly, installed by default in windows media
player.

MPG1 is pretty cross platform friendly. Its not exactly a 'quality'
standard, but most everyone will be able to play it and you will get
few. "The link didn't work for me" emails.

 

[kalev-]

MPG1 is pretty cross platform friendly. Its not exactly a 'quality'
standard, but most everyone will be able to play it and you will get
few. "The link didn't work for me" emails.

I'd agree with that.

But..
What I didn't see in the thread though...was that for simply mpg2 to work on
a PC: all you need is a mpg2/DVD codec, which may not be too high of a
requirement? PowerDVD SE, WinDVD or Nvidia DVD codec for example. Often
one of these apps are bundled with PC's....just a thought. Mpg2 is
patented, licensed and a fee has to be payed for. This is one reason you
can't play mpg2 with a "plain PC".

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[RS]

RS wrote:





I'd agree with that.

But..
What I didn't see in the thread though...was that for simply mpg2 to work on
a PC: all you need is a mpg2/DVD codec, which may not be too high of a
requirement? PowerDVD SE, WinDVD or Nvidia DVD codec for example. Often
one of these apps are bundled with PC's....just a thought. Mpg2 is
patented, licensed and a fee has to be payed for. This is one reason you
can't play mpg2 with a "plain PC".

Correct me if I'm wrong.

But if we read back, we see that getting a mgg2 codec really is too high
of a requirment. When granma says. "the link didn't work", and you tell
grandma that she needs the mgp2 codec and to get it from xxxxx, nine
times out of ten, granma will stop right there and say. "oh, thats just
too much bother."

However, a possibility for grandma is to also have a copy of the mpg2
codec installer on the site, with instructions for the grandmas to click
a exe file that will install the mpg2 codec, and select "Open" from the
drop down.

However, a worthwhile alternative is to have two files up. One in a
higher resolution codec and one in really vanilla mpg1.