AMD64 4000

[Steve]

Hi!

Could anyone give me some help as to why one would purchase the AMD64 4000
vs 3200 or something else?

Isn't the 4000 2.4GHz as well as the 3700?

I am looking for raw speed not for a gaming machine. I have specific 64 bit
applications I want to run for development. So speed is essential and take
advantage of the 64 bit.

I am looking at the Opteron but the cost is huge. If I got 2 1.8Ghz, how
much faster is a AMD 3700,4000, 3200 etc?

Please some insight is very helpful

 

[Black Shuck]

Hi!

Could anyone give me some help as to why one would purchase the AMD64 4000
vs 3200 or something else?

Isn't the 4000 2.4GHz as well as the 3700?

I am looking for raw speed not for a gaming machine. I have specific 64 bit
applications I want to run for development. So speed is essential and take
advantage of the 64 bit.

I am looking at the Opteron but the cost is huge. If I got 2 1.8Ghz, how
much faster is a AMD 3700,4000, 3200 etc?

Please some insight is very helpful

64bit computing is not in itself going to give you any extra speed
compared to 32bit, all it allows is larger memory addressing (above the
32bit 4Gb limit), it does mean application can use virtual memory larger
than 4Gb, but very few desktop applications have these requirements.
Reality is unless your app is going to be a hardcore service or database
application, 64bit OS is snake oil...

 

[Steve]

My app is built using the 64 bit instruction set and am coding in ASM for
extra performance.

This machine is a hardcode 64 bit application and am taking full use of the
instruction set. 64 bit will hugely improve my app how it currently runs.

I am wanting to know what the diff w/AMD64 4000 and 3200 etc?

Isn't 4000 and 3700 both 2.4 Ghz? Why would one purchase a 4000 over a
3700? Does the 4000 run faster?

Otherwise I was considering a dual opteron at 1.8Ghz. But if the 4000
performs much better than 2 1.8 Opterons. I'll go with the 4000.

 

[Dee]

64bit computing is not in itself going to give you any extra speed
compared to 32bit, all it allows is larger memory addressing (above the
32bit 4Gb limit), it does mean application can use virtual memory larger
than 4Gb, but very few desktop applications have these requirements.
Reality is unless your app is going to be a hardcore service or database
application, 64bit OS is snake oil...

64-bit OS is no more snake oil that a 32-bit OS was when Windows 95 and
Windows NT were first introduced. At that point in time the 32-bit
processors had been around awhile and no one really gave much thought to
it. So, the situation is no different now with 64-bit. You'll start
seeing more programs to take advance of the memory addressing space. AI
is an area that will benefit significantly from this!

 

[Ed]

Hi!

Could anyone give me some help as to why one would purchase the AMD64 4000
vs 3200 or something else?

Isn't the 4000 2.4GHz as well as the 3700?

I am looking for raw speed not for a gaming machine. I have specific 64 bit
applications I want to run for development. So speed is essential and take
advantage of the 64 bit.

I am looking at the Opteron but the cost is huge. If I got 2 1.8Ghz, how
much faster is a AMD 3700,4000, 3200 etc?

Please some insight is very helpful

The 4000+ is a 939 pin (dual channel memory controller)
The 3700+ is a 754 pin ( single channel memory controller)
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_9485_9487^10248,00.html

Guess it all depends what the code does and benefits from most,
MHz, larger L2 caches, faster ram, or 2 cpus , etc, etc...
Ed

 

[Wes Newell]

Could anyone give me some help as to why one would purchase the AMD64 4000
vs 3200 or something else?

More money than brains?

Isn't the 4000 2.4GHz as well as the 3700?

Yes, and so is the 754 3400+.

I am looking for raw speed not for a gaming machine. I have specific 64
bit applications I want to run for development. So speed is essential
and take advantage of the 64 bit.

I am looking at the Opteron but the cost is huge. If I got 2 1.8Ghz,
how much faster is a AMD 3700,4000, 3200 etc?

Please some insight is very helpful

Find the benchmark simliar to the type of app you have and and make your
choice. if all you want is raw speed and don't need wide bandwidth and
larger cache, then a 754 3400+ will work as well as any of them with the
exception of the FX55 which is 2.6GHz.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2249

 

[General Schvantzkoph]

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 15:58:41 -0500, Steve wrote:

If you can run your application in parallel then you'll get much more
performance with a dual Opteron. The Opteron is a very effecient
architecture for parallel processing. In addition to dual processor
boards you can buy four processor boards today and within a year there
will be dual core Opterons and Athlon64s which will allow you to scale the
performance still higher. Assuming that your application lends itself to
parallel processing you should make the effort to code it to run on
multiple processors and your choice for a development system should be a
dual Opteron, probably using the 244 which is the sweet spot in pricing
for the Opteron. The 246 is also a reasonable choice, above that part the
price jumps a lot.

If the application won't scale to multiple processors then you should
buy an Athlon64 system. There are two basic versions of the A64 out,
754 pin single memory channel parts and 939 pin dual memory channel
parts. For single processor systems the sweet spot in pricing is the 3500+
which is a 2.2GHz dual memory channel part and the 3400+ which comes two
ways, 2.4GHz 1/2M cache single memory channel part or a 2.2GHz 1M cache
single memory channel part. If memory performance matters to your
application get the 939 pin 3500+. Above 3500+ there is a huge price jump
in return for a very small increase in performance, the 4000+ is twice the
price of the 3500+ but only 10% faster. This is always true about
processor pricing, the top two speed grades are always overpriced because
the yields at those speed grades are low and there is always a limited
number of nut cases who will pay anything to get the fastest of anything.

 

[Randy Howard]

64bit computing is not in itself going to give you any extra speed
compared to 32bit

This is *not* practically true, particularly when Opteron SMP configurations
are considered as one of the 64-bit options. Hypertransport memory scales
extremely well with SMP on Opteron, and you will see huge memory throughput
increases over otherwise equivalent (or even higher clock speed) Xeon-based
solutions. When you miss the cache, this matters a great deal. This
memory architecture can be almost 8X faster than Xeon with the same memory
modules on Opteron.

There are also some specialized applications that calculate or move bulk
data where 64-bit operations offer great benefits. Your typical PC GUI
may not take advantage of them. In general, those that need such features
already know they need them, and the rest are generally ignorant of them.

all it allows is larger memory addressing (above the 32bit 4Gb limit),

Which for practical purposes really means a 2GB limit.

Reality is unless your app is going to be a hardcore service or database
application, 64bit OS is snake oil...

By itself, it is not absolutely needed for many desktop apps (although many
applications may wish to use file systems with files larger than 2 or 4GB,
in which offsets are larger than 32-bits. There are hacks for this problem
in existing Windows and Linux systems, but it happens naturally on 64-bit.

If you are willing to spend time trying to overclock your memory on an
existing system, then a hypertransport SMP system is definitely worthwhile,
and I don't know of a 32-bit motherboard that supports it offhand.

 

[dawg]

The 4000+ has larger L1 cache.

My app is built using the 64 bit instruction set and am coding in ASM for
extra performance.

This machine is a hardcode 64 bit application and am taking full use of the
instruction set. 64 bit will hugely improve my app how it currently runs.

I am wanting to know what the diff w/AMD64 4000 and 3200 etc?

Isn't 4000 and 3700 both 2.4 Ghz? Why would one purchase a 4000 over a
3700? Does the 4000 run faster?

Otherwise I was considering a dual opteron at 1.8Ghz. But if the 4000
performs much better than 2 1.8 Opterons. I'll go with the 4000.




64 and

 

[Ed Light]

Could anyone give me some help as to why one would purchase the AMD64 4000
vs 3200 or something else?

I see the 4000 runs at 2.4 ghz with a 1mb cache.

I got the 3200 winchester with 1/2 mb cach, 2.0 ghz.

In my first overclocking I got it up to 2.45 ghz, stable for 15 minutes of
prime95. But I need to give it an overnight run.

Difference of about $800 ?

Settings on mb with locked agp/pci (nforce 3 ultra): memory set to one speed
lower (166 > 333 [ equivalent to 200 >166 ] ), hypertransport bus set to 4x,
clock to 245. Voltage to 1.5.

The multiplier is locked above 10x, so to speed up you raise the clock,
which raises the memory, so you set the memory slower and it comes up with
the clock, the hypertransport bus does too, so you set it to a lower (5 > 4)
multiplier and it comes up again.

If interested try the alt.comp.hardware.amd.x86-64 and the
alt.comp.hardwar.amd.x86-64 groups.

I'm using a Gigabyte GA-K8NS-939, which is just $85 US. It reports vcore a
little funny, so I set it manually (not auto). If you happen to get that
one, remember that some overclocking features don't show up in the bios
until you press CTRL + F1.

Just loaded cool'n'quiet from the amd site and it's idling at 1.1v, 50%
speed. Very amazing.
--
Ed Light

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Thanks, robots.

 

[Ed Light]

If interested try the alt.comp.hardware.amd.x86-64 and the

also

alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd


--
Ed Light

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[Don Burnette]

Could anyone give me some help as to why one would purchase the
AMD64 4000 vs 3200 or something else?

I see the 4000 runs at 2.4 ghz with a 1mb cache.

I got the 3200 winchester with 1/2 mb cach, 2.0 ghz.

In my first overclocking I got it up to 2.45 ghz, stable for 15
minutes of prime95. But I need to give it an overnight run.

Difference of about $800 ?

Settings on mb with locked agp/pci (nforce 3 ultra): memory set to
one speed lower (166 > 333 [ equivalent to 200 >166 ] ),
hypertransport bus set to 4x, clock to 245. Voltage to 1.5.

The multiplier is locked above 10x, so to speed up you raise the
clock, which raises the memory, so you set the memory slower and it
comes up with the clock, the hypertransport bus does too, so you set
it to a lower (5 > 4) multiplier and it comes up again.

If interested try the alt.comp.hardware.amd.x86-64 and the
alt.comp.hardwar.amd.x86-64 groups.

I'm using a Gigabyte GA-K8NS-939, which is just $85 US. It reports
vcore a little funny, so I set it manually (not auto). If you happen
to get that one, remember that some overclocking features don't show
up in the bios until you press CTRL + F1.

Just loaded cool'n'quiet from the amd site and it's idling at 1.1v,
50% speed. Very amazing.

I've been able to get my 3500 winchester running at 2.35 reliably, 215 mhz
fsb, stable with prime95 overnight, with an ht of 4. I cannot get it to run
reliably any higher, probably because of my pc3200 ram - I do have good
quality Corsair LL matched ram. Very happy with my performance right now,
with an MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum Nforce3 Ultra mb.

 

[Wes Newell]

I've been able to get my 3500 winchester running at 2.35 reliably, 215 mhz
fsb, stable with prime95 overnight, with an ht of 4. I cannot get it to
run reliably any higher, probably because of my pc3200 ram - I do have
good quality Corsair LL matched ram. Very happy with my performance right
now, with an MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum Nforce3 Ultra mb.

If the ram is the problem lower base setting to 166MHz. That should allow
you to go at least 233MHz, assuming the ram being overclocked was the
problem.

 

[Ed Light]

I've been able to get my 3500 winchester running at 2.35 reliably, 215 mhz
fsb, stable with prime95 overnight, with an ht of 4. I cannot get it to
run reliably any higher, probably because of my pc3200 ram - I do have
good quality Corsair LL matched ram. Very happy with my performance right
now, with an MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum Nforce3 Ultra mb.

So your multiplier is 11x ?

You could set your memory to 166 and then for instance with a clock of 230
the memory would be 180 and the cpu would be 2530. Plenty of room to go
higher. At 250 the ht would be back at 1000.
Somewhere along the line you may have to give the cpu more than 1.5v.

If you can locate a download of the little calculator a64 memfreq 1.1 it is
very helpful.


--
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Send spam to the FTC at
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[Ed Light]

It has now done a 10 hour run.


--
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Thanks, robots.

 

[Nicholas Buenk]

The 4000+ is a 939 pin (dual channel memory controller)
The 3700+ is a 754 pin ( single channel memory controller)
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_9485_9487^10248,00.html

Guess it all depends what the code does and benefits from most,
MHz, larger L2 caches, faster ram, or 2 cpus , etc, etc...
Ed

Games are generally the only thing that benefits much from ram bandwidth.

 

[Don Burnette]

So your multiplier is 11x ?

You could set your memory to 166 and then for instance with a clock
of 230 the memory would be 180 and the cpu would be 2530. Plenty of
room to go higher. At 250 the ht would be back at 1000.
Somewhere along the line you may have to give the cpu more than 1.5v.

If you can locate a download of the little calculator a64 memfreq 1.1
it is very helpful.

Thanks for the info Wes and Ed, I'll play around with it.

 

[Don Burnette]

So your multiplier is 11x ?

You could set your memory to 166 and then for instance with a clock
of 230 the memory would be 180 and the cpu would be 2530. Plenty of
room to go higher. At 250 the ht would be back at 1000.
Somewhere along the line you may have to give the cpu more than 1.5v.

If you can locate a download of the little calculator a64 memfreq 1.1
it is very helpful.

Hey guys,

How exactly do I set the mem at 166?
I have an MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum motherboard.

 

[General Schvantzkoph]

Hey guys,

How exactly do I set the mem at 166?
I have an MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum motherboard.

In the BIOS the DRAM control is under the chipset control section. You
can control every aspect of the RAM timing but be careful. For example
don't use their aggressive timings, that's just asking for trouble.
Setting PC3200 down to 166MHz is perfectly safe, you should use the AUTO
settings for all of the other features.

 

[Don Burnette]

In the BIOS the DRAM control is under the chipset control section. You
can control every aspect of the RAM timing but be careful. For example
don't use their aggressive timings, that's just asking for trouble.
Setting PC3200 down to 166MHz is perfectly safe, you should use the
AUTO settings for all of the other features.

Hey guys,

I have successfully gotten my 3500 Winchester now to 2.53ghz, however
getting errors in Prime95.
Wanting to get the dram up to 200, I tried lowering the mulitplier thinking
that would allow me to bump up the fsb more, like to 235 or better.
My system will not post upon reboot, or a cold boot. I end up having to
clear the cmos and reset my bios settings. It did this also when trying to
up the fsb to 230 without adjusting the mulitplier.

My default multiplier is 11. It does allow lowering that setting, so I am
assuming it really does lower it?

I currently have dram set at 166, with the fsb set at 225 , ht of 4, vcore
at 1.525, dram voltage at 2.6