AMD/P4 and Mobo questions

[J]

Hey all,

This may seem ignorant, but I have a bunch of questions that a lot of you
would probably
be able to answer very easily for me.

I am looking to build a computer for a friend, as I know more about this
stuff than he does, but
I am not nearly caught up on hardware as I'd like to be.

AMD
AMD ATHLON 64 3500+, 2000HTB, 512K L2, SOCKET 939, 90NM, RETAIL
ASUS A8N SLI, S939 (2000HTB), NFORCE 4 SLI, ATX, 3 PCI/2 PCI-E,
AUDIO/DUAL RAID/GB LAN/SATA, 4 DC DDR


OR

Pentium
INTEL PENTIUM 4-3.2F GHZ, LGA775, 2MB CACHE, 800FSB, RETAIL
ASUS P5ND2-SLI, S775 (1066FSB), NFORCE 4, ATX, 3 PCI/1
PCIe X1/2 PCIe X16, LAN/SATA, 4 DDR II



My fundamental question is.. AMD or Pentium?

The 3500+ is about 2200MHz, how does it compare to the 3.2Ghz Pentium?
In general, how do you compare the AMD chips to Pentium chips in terms
of CPU clock and cache?

I am computer literate, but I am no where near up to date on hardware
as you can tell.. any information
would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,
Jon

 

[Ed Light]

AMD will run cooler and use less power, assuming the latest Venice core. It
is better for gaming.


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[EdG]

My fundamental question is.. AMD or Pentium?

AMD pretty much owns Intel right now, especially in gaming...
http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2330&p=2

The 3500+ is about 2200MHz, how does it compare to the 3.2Ghz Pentium?

AMD's do more work per clock cycle, so they don't need to run as fast ,
they use less power, run cooler, etc. Intel is still good, but they
really need to innovate something new.

Thanks,
Jon

Good luck,
Ed

 

[NoNoBadDog!]

Hey all,

This may seem ignorant, but I have a bunch of questions that a lot of you
would probably
be able to answer very easily for me.

I am looking to build a computer for a friend, as I know more about this
stuff than he does, but
I am not nearly caught up on hardware as I'd like to be.

AMD
AMD ATHLON 64 3500+, 2000HTB, 512K L2, SOCKET 939, 90NM, RETAIL
ASUS A8N SLI, S939 (2000HTB), NFORCE 4 SLI, ATX, 3 PCI/2 PCI-E,
AUDIO/DUAL RAID/GB LAN/SATA, 4 DC DDR


OR

Pentium
INTEL PENTIUM 4-3.2F GHZ, LGA775, 2MB CACHE, 800FSB, RETAIL
ASUS P5ND2-SLI, S775 (1066FSB), NFORCE 4, ATX, 3 PCI/1
PCIe X1/2 PCIe X16, LAN/SATA, 4 DDR II



My fundamental question is.. AMD or Pentium?

The 3500+ is about 2200MHz, how does it compare to the 3.2Ghz
Pentium?
In general, how do you compare the AMD chips to Pentium chips in
terms of CPU clock and cache?

I am computer literate, but I am no where near up to date on hardware
as you can tell.. any information
would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,
Jon

The 3500+ designation indicates the AMD has performance roughly equal to a
3.5 GHz P4.
You are better off getting the AMD, which has the on-board memory controller
and Hypertransport bus. Intel is still basing all of it's chips on the
antiquated P4/Netburst architecture. Despite what claims may be made by the
Intel fanboys, Intel is still producing EM64T capable chips on a 32 bit core
and they do not have on-die memory controller or hypertansport. The
Athlon64 is now the new standard for the current generation of chips, and it
will apparently be awhile before Intel admits it has lost the current round
and admits that it needs to give up on it's curent architecture and move on
to the new standard.

NOTE: All flames from Intel fanboys will be ignored. I used to be the
biggest Intel fanboy of them all, until Intel got lazy and stopped being an
innovator. AMD has Intel beat, and until Intel can move on, they will
continue to lose ground to AMD. FWIW, September marked a new record for
AMD; it is the first month the AMD outsold Intel. 52% of the processors
sold in September were AMD processors. That fact alone speaks volumes, when
you consider that Intel spent three hundred million dollars for advertising
this year and they are still losing the battle. AMD spent less than one
million for advertising. All their growth is due to the fact that they are
proven better processors, and the public is waking up to that fact.

Bobby

 

[Frank de Groot]

My fundamental question is.. AMD or Pentium?

I have used Intel all my life (and still use their compiler) but now I's AMD
all the way.
The benchmarks can't be ignored any more. I can't get the performance out of
any Intel CPU's which I get from my AMD 275's.

The only thing that outperforms my current PC is a dual-CPU, dual-core
Powermac G5, and only when using AltiVec.

 

[General Schvantzkoph]

The AMD64 parts are substantially faster then their Intel equivalents and
consume much less power. I have three A64 systems, a 3800+ desktop, a
3400+ laptop and a dual core X2 4400+ server. To give you an idea about
how cool the A64s run, my 4400+ is currently running a set of Verilog
simulations and is simultaneously doing an FPGA place and route so both
cores are running at 100%, the temperature is 41C. My desktop and laptop
systems are used for more ordinary tasks which are less demanding, as a
result the CPU fans are off 98% of the time. On a P4 system the fans need
to be running full bore even when the system is idle.

 

[f/fgeorge]

The AMD64 parts are substantially faster then their Intel equivalents and
consume much less power. I have three A64 systems, a 3800+ desktop, a
3400+ laptop and a dual core X2 4400+ server. To give you an idea about
how cool the A64s run, my 4400+ is currently running a set of Verilog
simulations and is simultaneously doing an FPGA place and route so both
cores are running at 100%, the temperature is 41C. My desktop and laptop
systems are used for more ordinary tasks which are less demanding, as a
result the CPU fans are off 98% of the time. On a P4 system the fans need
to be running full bore even when the system is idle.

UMMMMM not exactly! I have an AMD64 3200+ and it runs 100% of the time
using 100% of the cpu, I run Seti. The AMD is is currently running at
65c. I ALSO have an Intel P4D 840 EE running Seti. It is a dual core
with HT on each core, it is currently at 67c. The Intel is also
running 100% of the time using 100% of the cpu.
Now as far as task go the AMD is slightly faster for the task but the
intel is a 3.2ghz machine while the AMD is a 2.2 machine. Neither is
overclocked, both have their sides on and are tower cases. Both also
have a fan in the side of the case and one o nthe back of the case, in
addition to the power supply fan. Neither has a fan on the front of
the case.
Both are very quiet, they are in the same room with me now and in
addition I have another computer here, it is an AMD 2500+ and is
running at 1833 mhz. It has a cpu temp of 49c.It is also running Seti
and is on 100% of the time using 100% of the cpu.
ALL cpu fans are ones provided by the Manufacturer as part of the
cpu/fan boxed set.

 

[NoNoBadDog!]

UMMMMM not exactly! I have an AMD64 3200+ and it runs 100% of the time
using 100% of the cpu, I run Seti. The AMD is is currently running at
65c. I ALSO have an Intel P4D 840 EE running Seti. It is a dual core
with HT on each core, it is currently at 67c. The Intel is also
running 100% of the time using 100% of the cpu.
Now as far as task go the AMD is slightly faster for the task but the
intel is a 3.2ghz machine while the AMD is a 2.2 machine. Neither is
overclocked, both have their sides on and are tower cases. Both also
have a fan in the side of the case and one o nthe back of the case, in
addition to the power supply fan. Neither has a fan on the front of
the case.
Both are very quiet, they are in the same room with me now and in
addition I have another computer here, it is an AMD 2500+ and is
running at 1833 mhz. It has a cpu temp of 49c.It is also running Seti
and is on 100% of the time using 100% of the cpu.
ALL cpu fans are ones provided by the Manufacturer as part of the
cpu/fan boxed set.

I have the same processor (3200+) in an Antec P160 with one 120mm intake and
one 120mm exhaust fan. Stock cooler on the cpu. ATI 9700 Pro AIW, and I
run SETI 24x7 on this box. Normal CPU Usage 60-65%, temps in the 43-47
degree Celsius range (depending on the ambient temp here in Hawaii). I
would say you have inadequate airflow on both your boxes. My SETI rig is
pretty much stock (as you can see), no overclock, and my temps are *much*
lower than yours. Cool n' Quiet is enabled, latest AMD Processor driver and
VIA chipset drivers installed.

Bobby

 

[f/fgeorge]

I have the same processor (3200+) in an Antec P160 with one 120mm intake and
one 120mm exhaust fan. Stock cooler on the cpu. ATI 9700 Pro AIW, and I
run SETI 24x7 on this box. Normal CPU Usage 60-65%, temps in the 43-47
degree Celsius range (depending on the ambient temp here in Hawaii). I
would say you have inadequate airflow on both your boxes. My SETI rig is
pretty much stock (as you can see), no overclock, and my temps are *much*
lower than yours. Cool n' Quiet is enabled, latest AMD Processor driver and
VIA chipset drivers installed.

Bobby

I think my temp increase over yours has to do with the fact that mine
runs at 100% cpu usage 100% of the time, while yours is only running
at 60-65%, 100% of the time.
I do not use "cool n' quiet, because it does just what you are seeing,
slows down the machine to keep it quiet. Mine are not noisy when
running at full throttle, so no need for cool n' quiet.

 

[General Schvantzkoph]

Bobby

I think my temp increase over yours has to do with the fact that mine
runs at 100% cpu usage 100% of the time, while yours is only running
at 60-65%, 100% of the time.
I do not use "cool n' quiet, because it does just what you are seeing,
slows down the machine to keep it quiet. Mine are not noisy when
running at full throttle, so no need for cool n' quiet.

I'm running a 4400+ at 100% on both cores and my CPU temperature is 24C
cooler than yours. I have a Thermaltake CPU cooler which is better that
the stock AMD cooler and the room it's in might be a few degrees cooler
than yours but that might account for 10 degrees, not 24. Either your case
has terrible ventilation or your heatsink isn't well seated.

 

[Ed Light]

K8's top temp tolerance is 69c, I think.

Running p95 mine hits only 45c.

It's a Winchester at 2.4, 1.45v.

Arctic Freezer 64 with no fan ducted with aluminum tape to an 80mm panaflo
case fan at 2250 rpm. (The freezer has a really lousy base.)
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[NoNoBadDog!]

I think my temp increase over yours has to do with the fact that mine
runs at 100% cpu usage 100% of the time, while yours is only running
at 60-65%, 100% of the time.
I do not use "cool n' quiet, because it does just what you are seeing,
slows down the machine to keep it quiet. Mine are not noisy when
running at full throttle, so no need for cool n' quiet.

The point I was making is that there is a problem with your system. It
should not be running 100% all the time, and even then it should not be
running *ANYWHERE NEAR* what your temps are.
When my system runs at 100%, such as editing video, it only peaks at about
47 to 50 degrees Celsius. 67 degrees Celsius is very near the thermal limit
for your processor. I suspect there is probably a problem with the heat
sink/processor connection...too much thermal paste or it is improperly
mounted.

While 67 digress might be acceptable for a P4, it is no way acceptable for
an AMD processor.
Your system is running way too hot, regardless of the fact that it is
running at 100% or not.

Bobby

 

[DevilsPGD]

In message <[email protected]> f/fgeorge

UMMMMM not exactly! I have an AMD64 3200+ and it runs 100% of the time
using 100% of the cpu, I run Seti. The AMD is is currently running at
65c. I ALSO have an Intel P4D 840 EE running Seti. It is a dual core
with HT on each core, it is currently at 67c. The Intel is also
running 100% of the time using 100% of the cpu.

You can address that with proper cooling (unless you have a high ambient
room temperature)

With a bit of research and a bit of time, you'll do MUCH better then the
stock cooling.

I'm currently running with my CPU fan off entirely at a stable 34C (the
fan cuts in at 35C), that goes up to about 42C at full load on a AMD64
3000+ (single core)

 

[f/fgeorge]

I'm running a 4400+ at 100% on both cores and my CPU temperature is 24C
cooler than yours. I have a Thermaltake CPU cooler which is better that
the stock AMD cooler and the room it's in might be a few degrees cooler
than yours but that might account for 10 degrees, not 24. Either your case
has terrible ventilation or your heatsink isn't well seated.

Now THAT worries me!

 

[f/fgeorge]

The point I was making is that there is a problem with your system. It
should not be running 100% all the time, and even then it should not be
running *ANYWHERE NEAR* what your temps are.

Mine will ALWAYS run at 100% because of Seti. If you turn the "ccol n'
quiet" off you will see it too.

When my system runs at 100%, such as editing video, it only peaks at about
47 to 50 degrees Celsius. 67 degrees Celsius is very near the thermal limit
for your processor. I suspect there is probably a problem with the heat
sink/processor connection...too much thermal paste or it is improperly
mounted.

No it is definately not TOO MUCH paste, I didn't put any on!
Maybe I will look into a new fan, I got a really nice one for another
machine and it is barely turning but its cpu is nice and cool. Around
$50.00US for the fan.

While 67 digress might be acceptable for a P4, it is no way acceptable for
an AMD processor.
Your system is running way too hot, regardless of the fact that it is
running at 100% or not.

Bobby

I thank you for your concern and will do something about it this
coming week.

 

[f/fgeorge]

In message <[email protected]> f/fgeorge


You can address that with proper cooling (unless you have a high ambient
room temperature)

With a bit of research and a bit of time, you'll do MUCH better then the
stock cooling.

I'm currently running with my CPU fan off entirely at a stable 34C (the
fan cuts in at 35C), that goes up to about 42C at full load on a AMD64
3000+ (single core)

I will get a new fan this week. Thanks for all the input guys!

 

[General Schvantzkoph]

I will get a new fan this week. Thanks for all the input guys!

If I were you the first thing I'd do is reboot and check the temperatures
in the BIOS to make sure that lmsensors or motherboard monitor or whatever
you are using to read the CPU temp isn't lying to you. If the BIOS
confirms the temp then the next thing I'd do is remove the heatsink, clean
off the old thermal compound with alcohol and then put on fresh thermal
compound. The stock cooler that comes with the boxed set is certainly
adequate, it's not the best cooler that you can buy but there is no way
that AMD would ship a cooler that couldn't do the job. The temperatures
that you are seeing, assuming they are real an not an artifact of the
software that you are using, indicates that the heatsink wasn't installed
correctly.

 

[DevilsPGD]

In message <[email protected]> General

If I were you the first thing I'd do is reboot and check the temperatures
in the BIOS to make sure that lmsensors or motherboard monitor or whatever
you are using to read the CPU temp isn't lying to you. If the BIOS
confirms the temp then the next thing I'd do is remove the heatsink, clean
off the old thermal compound with alcohol and then put on fresh thermal
compound. The stock cooler that comes with the boxed set is certainly
adequate, it's not the best cooler that you can buy but there is no way
that AMD would ship a cooler that couldn't do the job. The temperatures
that you are seeing, assuming they are real an not an artifact of the
software that you are using, indicates that the heatsink wasn't installed
correctly.

Agreed -- Looking at my notes this time, I saw about a 3C difference
when I switched from the stock AMD cooler to the Zalman.

However, noise was my concern, the AMD fan was running at 3-4 thousand
RPM, the Zalman is off below 35C, and around 1000rpm above 35C.

 

[NoNoBadDog!]

Mine will ALWAYS run at 100% because of Seti. If you turn the "ccol n'
quiet" off you will see it too.

No it is definately not TOO MUCH paste, I didn't put any on!
Maybe I will look into a new fan, I got a really nice one for another
machine and it is barely turning but its cpu is nice and cool. Around
$50.00US for the fan.

I thank you for your concern and will do something about it this
coming week.

If there is no thermal paste or thermal tape between the processor and the
heatsink and fan, then that is the problem. There needs to be a very thin
coat of paste, or a piece of thermal tape there to seal the gap between the
processor and the heatsink. It is not an option.

Bobby

 

[Ed Light]

Get some Arctic Ceramique paste - the $4 tube.

Then check out the instructions

http://www.arcticsilver.com/ceramique_instructions.htm

Very nice because you don't have to spread it and worry about the thickness,
and it works great, especially after some time to bake in.

It also comes off easily.

(Watch out - there may be a flame war of doubters. But you may join us of
the faith. )


--
Ed Light

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