Alternatives to Norton Internet Security (HELP!)

[Johnny Canuck]

Hi, I did not buy a new version of Norton Internet security for a couple of
years now ever since I switched to ZoneAlarm for firewall protection since
it is much easier to use then Norton, works just as well, and FREE!

I am looking for a piece of software that does the following features below
like Norton Internet Security, but I DO NOT need a firewall or antivirus
software as I have 2 preffered choices already (Zonealarm for firewall,
Norton's for antivirus).

QUESTION:
If anyone has recommendations on a software program(s) that can fufill the
needs below the way I specified please let me know.

One thing I did like about Norton Internet Security is that it had some
useful features such as:
1) PopUp Blocker (Except from trusted sites)
2) Cookie blocker and cookie permissions for trusted sites.
3) Allows me to block any activeX stuff from running, accept on trusted
sites.
4) Optionally, to allow me to surf anonomously

In particular, I loved 2 features of Norton Internet Security.
a) The way NIS prompted you if you want to always accept a cookie
from a certain site or block it.
That way I could choose which sites are the "trusted" sites and
which sites all cookies should be blocked from.
b) As well, Norton Internet Securirity allowed you to export or
import settings in case you do a reinstall or put in a new version, etc.,
that way you don't have to redo any of your cookie overides. Being able to
do this import or export of settings is a bonus since If I had to reinstall
Windows it would be a bit of a chore to add the "trusted sites" again and
makes managing multiple computers a lot easier.
Some programs have other optional features like that Prevents personal data
from leaving your computer without permission.(i.e. Protects my privacy &
Prevents confidential information from being sent out without your knowledge
in email, instant messages, Microsoft® Office attachments, and Web forms,
but I don't have to have this latter feature.

I'd prefer a free program BUT my most important requirement is that the
program needs to work WELL (like the current software I use that is listed
below) so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I thought about
Norton Internet Security, but I prefer ZoneAlarm firewall to their own
firewall software and I don't like the fact that it is so hard to prevent
Norton Internet Security from installing the antivirus as well.

I use Spybot (search and destroy) to look for spyware (after the fact.)

Thanks

JC

 

[Vanguardx]

Hi, I did not buy a new version of Norton Internet security for a
couple of years now ever since I switched to ZoneAlarm for firewall
protection since it is much easier to use then Norton, works just as
well, and FREE!
I am looking for a piece of software that does the following features
below like Norton Internet Security, but I DO NOT need a firewall or
antivirus software as I have 2 preffered choices already (Zonealarm
for firewall, Norton's for antivirus).

QUESTION:
If anyone has recommendations on a software program(s) that can
fufill the needs below the way I specified please let me know.

One thing I did like about Norton Internet Security is that it had
some useful features such as:
1) PopUp Blocker (Except from trusted sites)
2) Cookie blocker and cookie permissions for trusted sites.
3) Allows me to block any activeX stuff from running, accept on
trusted sites.

PopUpCop (http://www.popupcop.com/). Much better popup control. Cookie
whitelisting which forces non-whitelisted cookies to be per-session
cookies (so web sites that need them still function). AX blocking
(w/prompt if selected). 30-day trial (full version, not crippled), and
licensing is generous. PopUpCop only works with Internet Explorer. I'm
sure that someone will pop in saying you should switch to Mozilla
because it can block popups. I haven't tested Mozilla to know if it
covers all popup methods and has equal or better cookie management than
PopUpCop.

4) Optionally, to allow me to surf anonomously

You can't do that with a local client unless it connects somewhere else
to use that proxy to forward your connection (the target host knows the
IP address of the source host that connects to it). Anonymizer.com,
URLencoded.com (no SSL), Tenebril GhostSurf, etc. I haven't done much
investigating in this area since I don't navigate to anywhere that I'm
afraid of them knowing who I am (which is just my IP address so they'd
have to go through my ISP to get my details). The only time that I've
use an anonymous proxy (actually all it needed to be was a public proxy)
was to reach a site that was unreachable through the path currently
available through the routers (routing isn't dynamic). I could, for
example, not reach www.creative.com from my ISP but I could reach a
public proxy from my ISP and that public proxy through a different route
could reach Creative's web site (this let me isolate and report their
defective edge host). You just need to configure IE to use a proxy.
But then it is a public proxy so its availability is flaky (it may not
be up, it may be too busy, or it might just disappear altogether) and
that proxy can still record where you go (and why some maniacs will
chain together three or more public proxies). I'm sure a Google search
on "free public proxy" will turn up some lists for you, like the list at
http://www.proxy4free.com/.

In particular, I loved 2 features of Norton Internet Security.
a) The way NIS prompted you if you want to always accept a
cookie from a certain site or block it.
That way I could choose which sites are the "trusted" sites and
which sites all cookies should be blocked from.

For me, NIS 2003 is configured to always allow cookies since I use
PopUpCop for cookie management (and why I also disable NIS' popup
blocking). I wasn't aware that NIS actually kept a record of which
domains you said Yes to allow the cookie encountered at that time
(unless maybe it records it in the Allow/Block list in IE). You didn't
mention what version of NIS that you use. You can specify allow/block
domains in IE under Tools -> Internet Options -> Privacy -> Edit (or
Sites). In fact, if you use SpywareBlaster and use its bad-domain
cookie list (I don't since I prefer the much more easy to manage
PopUpCop whitelist), it adds those domains under this list as Always
Block.

Even when using NIS, PopUpCop, and/or SpywareBlaster, you probably
should configure cookie management in IE to allow 1st party cookies,
block 3rd party cookies, and allow per-session cookies (those are
*supposed* to get deleted when you exit IE but sometimes the do not -
unless you use PopUpCop to enforce cookie whitelisting).

With PopUpCop's cookie whitelisting, you can ignore (not delete) cookies
that in your Trusted Sites security zone. PopUpCop can override any
setting for Always Block/Allow (noted next) but has an option to obey
those settings.

PopUpCop only loads when IE loads so it doesn't constantly consume
resources when they aren't needed (if you're not browsing, you don't
need popup and cookie control), unlike other cookie managers that always
run as a background application.

b) As well, Norton Internet Securirity allowed you to export or
import settings in case you do a reinstall or put in a new version,
etc., that way you don't have to redo any of your cookie overides.
Being able to do this import or export of settings is a bonus since
If I had to reinstall Windows it would be a bit of a chore to add the
"trusted sites" again and makes managing multiple computers a lot
easier.

The IE cookie list is in the registry key:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet
Settings\P3P\History

The value specifies whether that domain is blocked or allowed. Just
export that key from regedit. See
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=182569. Also, an easy way to find
these registry keys is to just enter some probably unique string and
then search for it in the registry, like adding "wowserbowser.invalid"
as a cookie domain or trusted site and then go hunt for it in the
registry. That's how I found the registry key for the domains listed in
the security zones, which was:

HKEY_USERS\<yourSID>\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet
Settings\ZoneMap\Domains

where <yourSID> is the security identifier assigned to your account.
You can find it listed under:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows
NT\CurrentVersion\ProfileList

Look for the one that has your %userprofile% path listed as the
ProfileImagePath data item.

Some programs have other optional features like that Prevents
personal data from leaving your computer without permission.(i.e.
Protects my privacy & Prevents confidential information from being
sent out without your knowledge in email, instant messages,
Microsoft® Office attachments, and Web forms, but I don't have to
have this latter feature.
I'd prefer a free program BUT my most important requirement is that
the program needs to work WELL (like the current software I use that
is listed below) so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I
thought about Norton Internet Security, but I prefer ZoneAlarm
firewall to their own firewall software and I don't like the fact
that it is so hard to prevent Norton Internet Security from
installing the antivirus as well.

What's so hard about unchecking a checkbox during the install? The NIS
install stops on a screen asking if you want to include NAV, shows a
checkbox (that is checked), and all you have to do is uncheck it and
continue the installation. However, you CANNOT install NAV separately
of NIS. NAV is included as an integrated component of NIS (i.e., you
are not getting a separate license or copy of NAV that is merely
packaged in with NIS).

I use Spybot (search and destroy) to look for spyware (after the
fact.)

You might want to enable the "Enable permanent blocking of bad addresses
in Internet Explorer" option (with the selection to prompt you when a
block occurs) in Spybot 1.3.

 

[Shep©]

Hi, I did not buy a new version of Norton Internet security for a couple of
years now ever since I switched to ZoneAlarm for firewall protection since
it is much easier to use then Norton, works just as well, and FREE!

I am looking for a piece of software that does the following features below
like Norton Internet Security, but I DO NOT need a firewall or antivirus
software as I have 2 preffered choices already (Zonealarm for firewall,
Norton's for antivirus).

QUESTION:
If anyone has recommendations on a software program(s) that can fufill the
needs below the way I specified please let me know.

One thing I did like about Norton Internet Security is that it had some
useful features such as:
1) PopUp Blocker (Except from trusted sites)
http://www.panicware.com/product_downloads.html



2) Cookie blocker and cookie permissions for trusted sites.

as above

3) Allows me to block any activeX stuff from running, accept on trusted
sites.

4) Optionally, to allow me to surf anonomously

http://www.OffByOne.com/ob1_download.htm
Less than 1 meg stand alone browser

Note:ALL Norton's software is shit except for,"Ghost" which used to be
good but now is iffy.

HTH



--
Free Windows/PC help,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html
remove obvious to reply
email (e-mail address removed)
Free songs to download and,"BURN" :O)
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/nomessiahsmusic.htm

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Note:ALL Norton's software is shit except for,"Ghost" which used to be

good but now is iffy.

If I am going to switch browser's, I'd go to Mozilla, I just like the way IE
handles favourites so I can easily back them up. Plus, its easy to manage
them in a Windows Explorer view.

I had a bad exerience when i changed over from netscape and a lot of my old
bookmark's just didn't look the same and I seemed to have some lost.

BTW, geuss you would be an advocate that AVG is the best antivirus, better
than Norton's 2005 or Symantec AntiVirus Corp?

Thank you for the info.

JC

 

[Johnny Canuck]

vanguard, that was one AWESOME reply thank you for the detail. Your message
is being saved for future reference, particular regarding anonymous
browsing.

Anonymous browsing ain't too big an issue right now, but cookies (And cookie
management), popups, and active X stuff is my main concern.
I don't mind manually creating a cookie whitelist with the program, in fact,
I prefer it to ensure which websites can't leave cookies and which can one
by one. With NIS some cookies seem to get by, and sometimes when you give
permission the sites don't work either.

Kind of weird that PopUpCop doesn't have an export or import feature since
one would think that was key for administering across multiple systems or
for reinstalls, but that's ok I don't mind manually setting it up the first
time.

Thanks for the recomendation, I'll give it a go on my next day off (friday)
but for now, I'll follow the thread and see what others think.

Thank you Vanguard.

JC

 

[Jon Danniken]

QUESTION:
If anyone has recommendations on a software program(s) that can fufill the
needs below the way I specified please let me know.

One thing I did like about Norton Internet Security is that it had some
useful features such as:
1) PopUp Blocker (Except from trusted sites)
2) Cookie blocker and cookie permissions for trusted sites.
3) Allows me to block any activeX stuff from running, accept on trusted
sites.

Zone Alarm Pro.

Jon

 

[Vanguardx]

If I am going to switch browser's, I'd go to Mozilla, I just like the
way IE handles favourites so I can easily back them up. Plus, its
easy to manage them in a Windows Explorer view.

I had a bad exerience when i changed over from netscape and a lot of
my old bookmark's just didn't look the same and I seemed to have some
lost.
BTW, geuss you would be an advocate that AVG is the best antivirus,
better than Norton's 2005 or Symantec AntiVirus Corp?

Thank you for the info.

JC

You might want to visit
http://www.virusbulletin.com/vb100/archives/products.xml. Grisoft's AVG
doesn't fare too well regarding *consistentency* in catching viruses (5
passes, 20 fails for a 75% failure rate - not good).

Don't bother with "works for me" responses. Saying that I've used NAV
on 57 hosts (and ditched McAfee because of detection failures) is still
just my experience and only represents a limited exposure to viruses.
There are also comparisons at
http://www.av-comparatives.org/seiten/comparatives.html but AVG isn't
included. They all seem to vary wildly between themselves and even
within a product over time regarding success at catching trojans but I
don't know if adding TDS-3 (soon to be TDS-4) would cover that
deficiency or irregularity.

 

[Vanguardx]

vanguard, that was one AWESOME reply thank you for the detail. Your
message is being saved for future reference, particular regarding
anonymous browsing.

Anonymous browsing ain't too big an issue right now, but cookies (And
cookie management), popups, and active X stuff is my main concern.
I don't mind manually creating a cookie whitelist with the program,
in fact, I prefer it to ensure which websites can't leave cookies and
which can one by one. With NIS some cookies seem to get by, and
sometimes when you give permission the sites don't work either.

Kind of weird that PopUpCop doesn't have an export or import feature
since one would think that was key for administering across multiple
systems or for reinstalls, but that's ok I don't mind manually
setting it up the first time.

Thanks for the recomendation, I'll give it a go on my next day off
(friday) but for now, I'll follow the thread and see what others
think.

Currently I have only 8 domains listed for cookie whitelisting.
Remember that those domains in the Trusted Sites security zone will have
their cookies saved (if you enable the option in PopUpCop to ignore
cookies in the Trusted zone which, I believe, is on by default). I have
5 sites listed in my Trusted Sites zone, so there are only 13 domains
for whom cookies will be kept if they use one. I like the whitelisting
concept because it does NOT block cookies when you are in a browser
session with a site. Many will use cookies for correct operation of
their web site. So you let the site save its permanent cookie but it
will get purged on exiting IE so all permanent cookies are forced to be
per-session cookies. Note that cookie whitelisting can only be applied
when the LAST instance of IE gets closed; that is, if you have one
instance of IE left running then those cookies will linger, but when you
finally close the last instance of IE then only the whitelisted cookies
(that are permanent cookies) will be kept.

I haven't checked on how settings in PopUpCop could be exported. There
might be a way. Sounds like a good suggestion to the author which I'll
submit. One of the things that pissed me off about NIS is that you
cannot export its rules and settings. At one time, back in version 2002
and earlier, you could export the registry keys holding those values.
Symantec decided to hash those registry keys (both their name and their
values) to prevent malicious code from altering them without detection,
and the hash is different on different installs and might even change
during use, so exporting them is a waste of time.

For PopUpCop, there are some settings that could be saved by exporting
the registry keys:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\PopupCop
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\PopUpCop

However, those didn't contain the cookie whitelist. Exporting registry
keys is doable but a menu selection to Export/Import Settings would be
preferrable, so I'll suggest that to the author.

There are lots of "little" features that I keep discovering in PopUpCop.
Ever right-click on a web page and select View Source? Well, all you
get is the source code for the frame you are currently in when you
right-clicked. PopUpCop can show you the source for all frames. You
can enable/disable the NT Messenger Service (although that can be done
by using the Services applet). It has irritation levels (i.e., filter
profiles) you can define to regulate how much you throttle a web site,
but I have repeatedly asked for a whitelist and blacklist so you can
assign an irritation level to a web site (just like you can assign a
whitelisting action to a domain for cookies). Still waiting on that
request, however.

By the way, PopUpCop has its ActiveX Guard to block or prompt download
of AX content (so you don't have to disable it completely). That has a
whitelist and blacklist so you don't have to keep answering prompts for
frequently visited sites. SpywareGuard also provides some AX
protection, and I use that, too, although the double prompts can be a
nuisance so eventually I'll just pick one or the other for AX protection
(and PopUpCop gives me white/blacklists so I'll probably go with that).

Many times I try to find freebie programs but which are excellent.
Eraser is a good security tool for completely wiping a file or drive.
SpamPal is excellent, along with its plug-ins, for spam filtering. But
I couldn't find anything but crippled trialware versions of popup
blockers or they just didn't have all the features of PopUpCop. I have
no recollection how I found out about PopUpCop other than it was
probably through a Google search. I tested it right up to the end of
trial period while testing other solutions before I decided to fork out
the $20 for it.

 

[Vanguardx]

Zone Alarm Pro.

Jon

So, if you visit a popup test site, like http://www.popuptest.com/, how
many tests does ZoneAlarm *Pro* (not the freebie) pass? PopUpCop passed
every test, and I didn't even have it on the high settings (although
although I did have to get more aggressive on one test than I care for),
and even passed the good popups test. Know of any better sites to test
popup blocking? I'd like to hit those (and report any failures to the
author).

Does ZoneAlarm Pro *ignore* any links in the Links folder (shown as the
Links toolbar in IE) to allow them to use Javascript to open popups?
Other popup blockers would typically kill any popups opened using
Javascript from YOUR shortcuts saved in the Links folder. For example,
rather than lose the registration page that I am currently on, I want to
open another browser window to Sneakemail to create an alias for that
registration, so I have
"javascript:void(win=window.open('http://sneakemail.com:80','Sneakema...izable=0,scrollbars=yes,menubar=no,status=yes'))"
as a shortcut in my Links toolbar. With PopUpCop, clicking that Links
shortcut does open a popup windows but several popup blockers that I
tested would block it.

 

[Jon Danniken]

"Vanguardx" wrote

So, if you visit a popup test site, like http://www.popuptest.com/, how
many tests does ZoneAlarm *Pro* (not the freebie) pass?

Don't know, that site comes up unavailable. ZAP works fine for my tastes, though.

Does ZoneAlarm Pro *ignore* any links in the Links folder

I don't use the links folder, so I don't know.

Jon

 

[Johnny Canuck]

"Johnny Canuck" <[email protected]>
wrote in
Currently I have only 8 domains listed for cookie whitelisting. Remember
that those domains in the Trusted Sites security zone will have their
cookies saved (if you enable the option in PopUpCop to ignore cookies in
the Trusted zone which, I believe, is on by default). I have 5 sites
listed in my Trusted Sites zone, so there are only 13 domains for whom
cookies will be kept if they use one. I like the whitelisting concept
because it does NOT block cookies when you are in a browser session with a
site. Many will use cookies for correct operation of their web site. So
you let the site save its permanent cookie but it will get purged on
exiting IE so all permanent cookies are forced to be per-session cookies.
Note that cookie whitelisting can only be applied when the LAST instance
of IE gets closed; that is, if you have one instance of IE left running
then those cookies will linger, but when you finally close the last
instance of IE then only the whitelisted cookies (that are permanent
cookies) will be kept.

Ah I didn't grasp the full context of "whitelisting" the first time, having
sites being able to use cookie's for that session only is great for those
websites that require cookies. Better feature then I thought.

That last tip about closing all IE window's is handy as well thanks.

There are lots of "little" features that I keep discovering in PopUpCop.
Ever right-click on a web page and select View Source? Well, all you get
is the source code for the frame you are currently in when you
right-clicked. PopUpCop can show you the source for all frames. You can
enable/disable the NT Messenger Service (although that can be done by
using the Services applet). It has irritation levels (i.e., filter
profiles) you can define to regulate how much you throttle a web site, but
I have repeatedly asked for a whitelist and blacklist so you can assign an
irritation level to a web site (just like you can assign a whitelisting
action to a domain for cookies). Still waiting on that request, however.

By the way, PopUpCop has its ActiveX Guard to block or prompt download of
AX content (so you don't have to disable it completely). That has a
whitelist and blacklist so you don't have to keep answering prompts for
frequently visited sites. SpywareGuard also provides some AX protection,
and I use that, too, although the double prompts can be a nuisance so
eventually I'll just pick one or the other for AX protection (and PopUpCop
gives me white/blacklists so I'll probably go with that).

Active X protection is also very good.

Many times I try to find freebie programs but which are excellent. Eraser
is a good security tool for completely wiping a file or drive. SpamPal is
excellent, along with its plug-ins, for spam filtering. But I couldn't
find anything but crippled trialware versions of popup blockers or they
just didn't have all the features of PopUpCop. I have no recollection how
I found out about PopUpCop other than it was probably through a Google
search. I tested it right up to the end of trial period while testing
other solutions before I decided to fork out the $20 for it.

Thank you SOO much for the information, been very invaluable. I geuss I
should stop being so snobbish about software not done by a big company,
since some big company's, like symantec, seem to ruin good products when
they take it over anyways (like the old firewall software).

Thanks again.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Thanks for the link, I have plenty of quality hardware reveiew sites (like
tomshardware and firingsquad) but I was looking for some good software
review sites, particulary for antivirus, firewall software, and cookie/popup
blocker. That website comparison place is pretty helpful.

Maybe I'll give Kapersky a shot, although if it is made in Russia I am a bit
worried...

You think with all the cash Symantec makes (and puts into) their flagship
product that Symantec antivirus or Norton AntiVirus would be #1....

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Zone Alarm Pro.

I NEVER noticed but ZoneAlarm Pro apparrently DOES allow you to backup
security settings. Well it is such a terrific firewall I think Iwill
upgrade to the Pro then.

I'll still give popupcop.com a shot though, especially like the cookie
whitewashing feature.

Thanks

 

[Vanguardx]

"Johnny Canuck" <[email protected]>
wrote in

You think with all the cash Symantec makes (and puts into) their
flagship product that Symantec antivirus or Norton AntiVirus would be
#1....

You have to remember that Symantec is a software *publisher*, not a
developer except as required to maintain revenue. They buy products and
then put their name on them. They bought Norton. They then bought
Central Point to get the competing PC Tools off the market. They bought
Winfax from Delrina. I forget from whom they got CleanSweep and the
spam filter in NIS. I seem to recall that even NIS was something they
bought (but I can't remember the original product's name). They bought
Powerquest to get PartitionMagic and DriveImage (a competitor in the
personal market to their Ghost). GoBack they got from Roxio (and I
forget who Roxio got it from). CheckIt Diagnostics (in SystemWorks
Premier) came from Smith Micro.

They buy, they repackage, and they sell it for awhile but their products
wane over time. Personally I can't think of an existing product under
the Symantec brand name that wasn't bought from someone else or
contracted. As far as I can tell, they don't create anything and just
resell it instead. That's not necessarily a bad thing but you have to
be aware of that their focus is as a software publisher and not as a
software developer.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

They buy, they repackage, and they sell it for awhile but their products

wane over time. Personally I can't think of an existing product under the
Symantec brand name that wasn't bought from someone else or contracted.
As far as I can tell, they don't create anything and just resell it
instead. That's not necessarily a bad thing but you have to be aware of
that their focus is as a software publisher and not as a software
developer.

Really, as much as I dislike Microsoft, they do seem to do a pretty decent
job developing their products over time.

I mean Windows 3.1X sucked, but eventually it got us to Windows XP, and even
though Windows XP has a lot of shortcoming, the PC industry is in a LOT
better place now in large part to Microsoft. WQHL certification makes the
hardware part work a lot better.
And on the gaming side, the studioes they have taken over generally continue
to do well and thrive.

On the other hand, all those Symantec products you have mentioned have
gotten worse over time or have dissapeared outwrite. Seems kind of odd,
especially with stuff like
Winfax (and their now defunct TalkWorks Pro which had a lot of potential),
Nortin Internet Security (especially the firewall), and PartitionMagic.

I wouldn't want Microsoft to get into the firewall market (with a standalone
product) or antivirus (also with a stand alone product) but these are 2 key
areas where consumers BADLY need a big company to step up with a mainstream
product that is quality year after year. It's a shame that a compnay with
the resources of symantec does such a poor job...