already caved to weatherbug!!!!

[Yardwaste]

Well it started off well. I actually like how the MS
program worked. It even a found a few that Spybot and
adaware missed.
But now you caved in because a spyware site/programe owners
complained to you and you are going to remove it from your
list of targets. Read it and weep spyware haters
http://netrn.net/spywareblog/archives/2005/01/07/adware-vs-microsoft/

Other adware/spyware programs indentify weatherbug as
adware because it is!!

Come on MS. How many other spyware companies that complain
and cry the blues to you will you remove???? And you are
going to want me to pay. How can I trust your program
anymore?? I guess when fastclick, and xxxtoolbar ect cry to
you or pay you, you remove them from your target list too!!????

 

[Bill Sanderson]

So what do you want? Microsoft has a clearly defined set of standards and a
process for resolution of disputes about how those standards are applied.

Anybody who is familiar with the operation of DNSBL's know that there is
potential for abuse in a product which offers to "remove" something that may
be viewed as legitimate by some and not by others.

The early players in this area are starting to get smart and re-form
themselves as legitimate businesses. Microsoft will apply objective
standards to them--they can't look back in history and say "but three years
ago you were doing......" This is going to make many people who've been
fighting against this stuff for any length of time upset, but in the end, if
it stops the drive-by installs and the programs with no uninstall, etc,
it'll surely be a good thing, right? I've already seen a couple of posts of
"help, I have xyz spyware on my system and this program can't remove it"
whose answer was "check out add/remove programs."

Take a good look at the criteria for inclusion and see whether you think
Weatherbug violates them.

 

[Spider]

Hello Yardwaste,

Y> Well it started off well. I actually like how the MS
Y> program worked. It even a found a few that Spybot and
Y> adaware missed.
Y> But now you caved in because a spyware site/programe owners
Y> complained to you and you are going to remove it from your
Y> list of targets. Read it and weep spyware haters
Y> http://netrn.net/spywareblog/archives/2005/01/07/adware-vs-microsoft/
Y> Other adware/spyware programs indentify weatherbug as adware because
Y> it is!!
Y>
Y> Come on MS. How many other spyware companies that complain and cry
Y> the blues to you will you remove???? And you are going to want me to
Y> pay. How can I trust your program anymore?? I guess when fastclick,
Y> and xxxtoolbar ect cry to you or pay you, you remove them from your
Y> target list too!!????

Weatherbug by itself is not spyware. They make it very plain when you install
it that you are getting ad's delivered to your system. They keep the ad's
displaying within the software itself so if you don't want to see them don't
open the software up. That's all that most of us who have to deal with spyware
really care about. Don't hide a bunch of crap in the EULA and claim you
are not spyware. Weatherbug does not do this. One thing they did the last
time I checked though is to distribute the MyWay toolbar with their package.
That is another topic though. Weatherbug itself I tend to agree is not
spyware. I'm just not sure I'm 100 percent behind their distribution tactics
though.


Spider
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/spider1

 

[andy]

Well it started off well. I actually like how the MS
program worked. It even a found a few that Spybot and
adaware missed.
But now you caved in because a spyware site/programe owners
complained to you and you are going to remove it from your
list of targets. Read it and weep spyware haters
http://netrn.net/spywareblog/archives/2005/01/07/adware-vs-microsoft/

Other adware/spyware programs indentify weatherbug as
adware because it is!!

Come on MS. How many other spyware companies that complain
and cry the blues to you will you remove???? And you are
going to want me to pay. How can I trust your program
anymore?? I guess when fastclick, and xxxtoolbar ect cry to
you or pay you, you remove them from your target list too!!????

http://www.pchell.com/support/weatherbug.shtml

adware, not spyware.

 

[Guest]

adware, spyware --whatever. I don't want it and I want it
detected and removed. They caved, I wonder if money was
involved.

If weather bug's home page said that "we will track your
loacation and we will send you ads" on the top of the page
most people would not proceed. Then again, lots would, like
those that support this cave in.

 

[andy]

adware, spyware --whatever. I don't want it and I want it
detected and removed. They caved, I wonder if money was
involved.

If weather bug's home page said that "we will track your
loacation and we will send you ads" on the top of the page
most people would not proceed. Then again, lots would, like
those that support this cave in.

I don't particularly support the cave, was just providing a link to some
info on weatherbug.

Honest ;-)

Andy

 

[andy]

I don't particularly support the cave, was just providing a link to some
info on weatherbug.

cave? doh, cave in.

 

[Bill Sanderson]

When you say you want it detected and removed--your implication is that you
didn't know it was there?

You didn't read the Eula which, in order to be removed from the listing,
must fairly describe the activity of the product, as I recall?

Or are you saying that you want this product removed from a suite of
corporate desktops you control? I'm sure there are other ways to accomplish
this, or to prevent the installation in the first place, than requiring
Microsoft to uninstall something your users have been permitted to install
in the first place.

"adware, spyware, whatever"--this distinction is important. If you don't
want products which display ads on your machines, feel free to not install
them. I don't see why there needs to be a Microsoft product which removes
"products which display ads" as a category.

 

[codemastr]

Other adware/spyware programs indentify weatherbug as
adware because it is!!

Weatherbug is *not* adware. It's simply an ad supported program. The company
never denied that it contains advertisements, nor does MS. If you want to
call weatherbug adware, then so is Opera, AIM, and many other programs that
display advertisements in the program. That's different than installing
programs on your machine that hijack your PC to display ads. Weatherbug
*only* displays the ads within its own program. That's not adware, that's an
ad supported free program.

 

[Steve Wechsler [MVP]]

Weatherbug is *not* adware. It's simply an ad supported program. The company
never denied that it contains advertisements, nor does MS. If you want to
call weatherbug adware, then so is Opera, AIM, and many other programs that
display advertisements in the program. That's different than installing
programs on your machine that hijack your PC to display ads. Weatherbug
*only* displays the ads within its own program. That's not adware, that's an
ad supported free program.

Nicely put, codemaster. Whether it's a PITA, nuisance, how ever one
describes Weatherbug, it is NOT malware.

Steve Wechsler (akaMowGreen)
MVP Windows Server
AumHa VSOP

 

[Guest]

As you know most if not all EULAs are written in such a way
so as to confuse the user, hide what it is actually going
to do, use of legal speak which most people cannot
understand, or it is like a book and people give up after
the 5th page. Even EULAs where clear and up front, there
would still be problems with adware. When weatherbugs FIRST
STATEMENT--BOLDED say -"When you install this software we
will send you ads and track your location--if you don't
want ads please d/l the version we charge money for. Do you
wish to proceed? Yes or No" Then the rest of the EULA would
be displayed.
When EULAs are written clearly and honesty, then I will
accept your points.
Secondly, many machine have multiple users in a
household/bussiness. No matter what you do to control them,
they seem to always add something that you don't want or
even know about. 'Nuff said on that.
Anyway, at least identify it as adware, give the user the
option to delete it or ignore it. If the user meant to have
it, then it isn't a prob. Just click the add to ignore list
button

 

[Spider]

Go to this page and read what they have to say out in the open on their
website.

http://www.weatherbug.com/aws/notSpyware.html

Then try installing it and run a scan with all the spyware software that
they provide links to. I think you'll recognize a few of them. See if they
detect weatherbug as spyware. It's a real shame that people get so caught
up into bashing Microsoft they won't even take time to check out the facts.
The only bad thing I have heard about them (not confirmed) is that they also
offer some bundled stuff that is spyware but not associated with their
program and it does not install silently.

 

[Bill Sanderson]

They've staked out the territory very carefully in the list in the KB
article about criteria for listing. I don't think they are likely to
broaden it soon. I suspect the lawyers will be busy enough with the current
list.

 

[andy]

Weatherbug is *not* adware. It's simply an ad supported program. The
company never denied that it contains advertisements, nor does MS. If you
want to call weatherbug adware, then so is Opera, AIM, and many other
programs that display advertisements in the program. That's different than
installing programs on your machine that hijack your PC to display ads.
Weatherbug *only* displays the ads within its own program. That's not
adware, that's an ad supported free program.

I stand corrected, cheers codemastr,

Andy

 

[SteveC]

It is trash; I have to delete it off our school machines all the time and it
throws hurdles at you to uninstall it. Surveys; going to their website,
etc. It doesn't have an option in its Start folder to uninstall. Hate it!
I like MS AntiSpyware so far because it puts me in charge. If one wants to
keep the sorry program, one can mark it ok, and keep it.

 

[codemastr]

It is trash; I have to delete it off our school machines all the time and

it throws hurdles at you to uninstall it. Surveys; going to their
website, etc. It doesn't have an option in its Start folder to uninstall.
Hate it! I like MS AntiSpyware so far because it puts me in charge. If
one wants to keep the sorry program, one can mark it ok, and keep it.

Well I've never installed it, so I can't dispute your claims, but these
things are not malicious. In fact, I think having a survey at uninstall is a
great idea! What better way to find out why your users are uninstalling your
software? I'd be happy to know that the company is willing to listen to my
opinions. My biggest complaint about MS has always been that I feel they
ignore most user suggestions. I'd welcome a survey in their uninstaller to
find out why I didn't like their product.

BTW, MS AntiSpyware's job isn't to "put you in charge." It's to stop
spyware. If you run a network at a school, and students keep installing this
program, and you don't want it, that is indeed a problem. However, it's not
a problem that it is MS AntiSpyware's job to fix. Most schools also have
rules against students viewing adult material, do you think that AntiSpyware
should flag such websites as "spyware"? I don't. You're problem is allowing
the students to install this program in the first place! You have improper
security. I know at my high school we weren't able to install anything on
the machines. They blocked at ability. You have a AUP enforcement problem,
not a spyware problem.

As for not having an uninstall option in the start folder... MS Office
doesn't have an uninstall option their either, does that make Office
spyware? It might be an inconvenience, but there is a difference between an
inconvenience and malicious activity.

 

[weatherbugjay]

WeatherBug is NEITHER Adware Nor Spyware

sorry to join this discussion so late-

IF you define adware as "anything with ads", then by that ridiculously broad definition, not only is WeatherBug "adware", but so is AOL instant Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, Hotmail, Yahoo mail, realplayer, Weather Channel's application, etc. etc.

That is going to start a ridiculous witch hunt/boy who cried wolf syndrome. HOW MUCH credibility do you think the AVERAGE person (Not an IT pro) will give to ANYTHING their spyware/adware detector flags if every time they run it it pulls up AIM, Yahoo messenger and Weather Channel or WeatherBug??

Pretty soon they'll just ignore ANYTHING that gets detected because they'll think "well, this dumb program was saying AOL Instant Messenger was adware and I know that's a great program so I won't delete ANYTHING it finds as adware because I can't trust it."

Come on folks...think logically.

The definition of adware that I see most often, and the one that the US govt. is leaning towards adopting, is: software that tracks surfing habits, and serves advertising (often times in the form of pop-ups) as a result of that tracking.
THAT ladies and gents is what Gator and WhenU do. They TRACK where I surf and if I'm dumb enough to install their 'programs'- when I go to expedia.com to book a flight, suddenly PRESTO! I get an annoying pop-up ad for travelocity.com asking if I'd rather book my flight there.

THAT is adware.

If we start a witchhunt b/c we define anything with advertising as "adware"- we'll have nobody but ourselves to blame when people stop believe anything their adware/spyware detectors flag.


For the record- WeatherBug makes it abundantly clear that we have advertising (the version we released in June 2004 has NO pop ads!)

WeatherBug owns and operates the world’s largest network of weather stations and is one of the top 10 Internet properties in daily reach according to Media Metrix.

Our data is:
- viewed by over 80 million households a month, both on-line and off-line
- accessible to The Department of Homeland Security for live, real-time plume modeling and weather data, in the event of an attack on our country, and our weather stations are at 15 Coast Guard bases, the US Naval Academy, Quantico Marine Base and USAF Academy
- used by dozens of city, county and state emergency managers in assessing the impact of current weather conditions on hazardous situations and natural disasters,
- in 8,000 schools and universities across the US, helping teach math and science along with our WeatherBug curriculum which won a Smithsonian Laureate and was selected by Media & Methods Magazine as 2002’s “Education Technology of the Year,” and chosen by District Administration Magazine as a Top 100 product (2003);
- used by meteorologists at over 100 TV stations to bring “neighborhood” weather forecasts and conditions to communities every day.

all those military, govt., schools, universities, energy companies, etc etc. all seem to trust our product and more importantly, the live, local weather we provide (whereas our competitors get their data once an hour from airport stations 30 miles from where you live). That's why 23 million unique users a month visit our application online and tens of millions more see our weather incorporated into their local TV broadcasts.

If you have any questions- feel free to contact me directly at (e-mail address removed)

Or hope to see you at next year's NetWorld/Interop show in Vegas.

Jay Hoffman
WeatherBug support team