Adobe, Symantec Behind Complaints to EU About Vista

M

MICHAEL

Adobe, Symantec Behind Complaints to EU About Vista
by Paul Thurrott, (e-mail address removed)

So now we know. According to a report in "The Wall Street Journal,"
Microsoft competitors Adobe Systems and Symantec are behind recent
European Union (EU) investigations into Windows Vista. The two
companies have lobbied EU regulators to prevent Microsoft from
shipping free features in Vista that compete with products that these
companies now sell to consumers.

It's too bad that both complaints are completely bogus. Adobe is
complaining about Microsoft technology that offers part of the
functionality of Adobe's powerful PDF format. What's different,
apparently, is that Adobe charges customers to create PDF documents,
whereas Microsoft's competing format, XML Paper Specification (XPS),
is free. PDF is widely regarded as a de facto standard, thanks largely
to Adobe's practice of giving away its Adobe Reader 7.0 software,
which can display PDF documents but doesn't let you edit or create
them.

Symantec's complaint is more tenuous. The company alleges that users
should be able to replace Windows Security Center in Vista with third-
party software, even though you can populate Security Center with
links to third-party products and Microsoft is letting third parties
brand Security Center with their own logos and icons. Symantec has
also complained about a new security feature called Kernel PatchGuard
that prevents software--malicious or otherwise--from altering the
Windows kernel at runtime. In the past, security companies have been
forced to patch the Windows kernel themselves to reverse kernel
patches applied by malicious software. Such patches won't be possible
in Vista, which should make the system more secure. However, Symantec
wants the feature removed.

Microsoft's response to these complaints has been interesting. Earlier
this year, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer wrote to the European
Commissioner for Competition Neelie Kroes and asked whether she wanted
Microsoft to remove XPS from Vista. Kroes never responded, though the
EU has said publicly that "it is for Microsoft to decide how they
package and sell Vista."

As for Symantec, Microsoft has been working with it and other security
companies for years to ensure that they're up-to-date on the changes
in Vista. I spoke with Stephen Tolouse at the Microsoft Security
Response Center. He said that Microsoft is providing only a baseline
of security in Vista: There's plenty of room for third-party products,
as before. With Vista, information about third-party solutions,
including Symantec's, is even available in Security Center.

Here's the thing. Back in the bad old days a decade ago, when
Microsoft was busy integrating Microsoft Internet Explorer (IE) into
Windows solely to harm the competition, one could easily make the case
for anticompetitive behavior. There's room for debate about whether
features such as Web browsers and IM applications need to be bundled
and deeply integrated into an OS. Today, however, few could argue that
improving the security of Windows is anything but a good idea. In
fact, one might describe such changes as mandatory.

What Symantec--and, ultimately, Adobe--is really worried about is that
its gravy train is about to end. With emerging electronic threats,
Symantec and other security firms will have enough opportunities to
keep busy and remain profitable. But everyone wins when Windows
becomes more secure. As for Adobe, it's telling that this firm has yet
to broadly ship a low-cost way to edit PDF files. If XPS simply lowers
the price of entry into the PDF world, well, that too will benefit
consumers.

In short, Microsoft's competitors are simply running to the friendly
ear of antitrust regulators because they can do so easily and without
cost. If these companies spent more time worrying about their
customers, and less about an OS company that deserves to improve its
products legally, none of this would have happened.

Longtime readers will remember how strongly I came down against
Microsoft's IE bundling strategy. I still feel that those decisions
were wrong and that they served as the foundation for a decade of
security vulnerabilities and customer pain that we're still
experiencing. Adobe's and Symantec's complaints, however, bear no
relation at all to those of Netscape a decade ago. Today, Microsoft is
doing the right thing for its customers. Frankly, it's about time.
 
L

localhost

I stopped using the antivirus software years ago, it is simply useless,
always slowing down my computer, and I am only protected from the common
threads, the threads that I already know how to protect myself from :)

Even if it is installed in your machine, it will still get attacked, then
you need a firewall, then you need a spyware protection, then .

I have windows up to date, the windows firewall enabled, and all my software
are from trusted sources, period, and there is nothing for e to worry about.

Maybe it is time for Symantec to stop feed on the people fears and go build
something useful, there are so many security problems that need a solution
in the enterprise business.

A move so stupid, like me going to Ford or GM and ask them not to sell keys
with their cars, it is just idiotic.

And Adobe here is like the one who discovered a way of writing, PDF, hey,
there is HTML, DOC, .. Too; and they now need to benefit from it until the
end of the universe, guess what, will not happen, XPS it is, and open
standard, no PDF's anymore, will not support them in any organization I work
for from now on, or any software I am part of in the future.

In other words, if the customer "me" is not the priority of the company,
will not use their products anymore, and what they are doing today is
against me, yes the "customer".
 
K

Kevin John Panzke

At least those of us living here in the U.S.A. don't have to worry too much
about any kind of Windows Vista Anti Trust Action, as long as George W. Bush
remains the President of the U.S.A. (and as long as Alberto Gonzales remains
U.S.A. Attorney General), we have nothing to worry about, Just FYI.
 
R

Richard Urban

I stopped caring about your posts a long time ago, just FYI, just FYI, just
FYI, just FYI, just FYI,

--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
M

Mark D. VandenBerg

MICHAEL said:
Adobe, Symantec Behind Complaints to EU About Vista
by Paul Thurrott, (e-mail address removed)

So now we know. According to a report in "The Wall Street Journal,"
Microsoft competitors Adobe Systems and Symantec are behind recent
European Union (EU) investigations into Windows Vista. The two
companies have lobbied EU regulators to prevent Microsoft from
shipping free features in Vista that compete with products that these
companies now sell to consumers.

It's too bad that both complaints are completely bogus. Adobe is
complaining about Microsoft technology that offers part of the
functionality of Adobe's powerful PDF format. What's different,
apparently, is that Adobe charges customers to create PDF documents,
whereas Microsoft's competing format, XML Paper Specification (XPS),
is free. PDF is widely regarded as a de facto standard, thanks largely
to Adobe's practice of giving away its Adobe Reader 7.0 software,
which can display PDF documents but doesn't let you edit or create
them.

Symantec's complaint is more tenuous. The company alleges that users
should be able to replace Windows Security Center in Vista with third-
party software, even though you can populate Security Center with
links to third-party products and Microsoft is letting third parties
brand Security Center with their own logos and icons. Symantec has
also complained about a new security feature called Kernel PatchGuard
that prevents software--malicious or otherwise--from altering the
Windows kernel at runtime. In the past, security companies have been
forced to patch the Windows kernel themselves to reverse kernel
patches applied by malicious software. Such patches won't be possible
in Vista, which should make the system more secure. However, Symantec
wants the feature removed.

Microsoft's response to these complaints has been interesting. Earlier
this year, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer wrote to the European
Commissioner for Competition Neelie Kroes and asked whether she wanted
Microsoft to remove XPS from Vista. Kroes never responded, though the
EU has said publicly that "it is for Microsoft to decide how they
package and sell Vista."

As for Symantec, Microsoft has been working with it and other security
companies for years to ensure that they're up-to-date on the changes
in Vista. I spoke with Stephen Tolouse at the Microsoft Security
Response Center. He said that Microsoft is providing only a baseline
of security in Vista: There's plenty of room for third-party products,
as before. With Vista, information about third-party solutions,
including Symantec's, is even available in Security Center.

Here's the thing. Back in the bad old days a decade ago, when
Microsoft was busy integrating Microsoft Internet Explorer (IE) into
Windows solely to harm the competition, one could easily make the case
for anticompetitive behavior. There's room for debate about whether
features such as Web browsers and IM applications need to be bundled
and deeply integrated into an OS. Today, however, few could argue that
improving the security of Windows is anything but a good idea. In
fact, one might describe such changes as mandatory.

What Symantec--and, ultimately, Adobe--is really worried about is that
its gravy train is about to end. With emerging electronic threats,
Symantec and other security firms will have enough opportunities to
keep busy and remain profitable. But everyone wins when Windows
becomes more secure. As for Adobe, it's telling that this firm has yet
to broadly ship a low-cost way to edit PDF files. If XPS simply lowers
the price of entry into the PDF world, well, that too will benefit
consumers.

In short, Microsoft's competitors are simply running to the friendly
ear of antitrust regulators because they can do so easily and without
cost. If these companies spent more time worrying about their
customers, and less about an OS company that deserves to improve its
products legally, none of this would have happened.

Longtime readers will remember how strongly I came down against
Microsoft's IE bundling strategy. I still feel that those decisions
were wrong and that they served as the foundation for a decade of
security vulnerabilities and customer pain that we're still
experiencing. Adobe's and Symantec's complaints, however, bear no
relation at all to those of Netscape a decade ago. Today, Microsoft is
doing the right thing for its customers. Frankly, it's about time.

I agree Michael. Adobe and Symantec are only concerned with the profit, not
the user. I am all for capitalism, but if these companies are trying to
bend a government ear to ensure their own survival, perhaps they should put
their energies towards products that are Vista compatible instead of trying
to "break" Vista.
 
M

MICHAEL

I agree Michael. Adobe and Symantec are only concerned with the profit, not the user. I am
all for capitalism, but if these companies are trying to bend a government ear to ensure
their own survival, perhaps they should put their energies towards products that are Vista
compatible instead of trying to "break" Vista.


My recent UAC rant aside- I agree, too.


-Michael
 
T

Test Man

Except other "threats", eh, but that's for another thread ;)

"FYI", Bush should've gone a long time ago and it would seem that half of
the US agrees.
 
G

Guest

Symantec's dream is that EVERY computer will require anti-virus, an OS simply
isn't enough because it doesn't fill their pockets, BUT does Symantec code
for *nix, Sun, or even Apple? Nope. They rode on the waves of vulnerabilites
that were being taken advantage of, they knew where the market was but do
they know where the market is going?

Using their software used to be strangely enjoyable but I don't want to
constantly run it in the background anymore or allow it to do things to my
computer other than scan for viruses, I didn't buy a computer just to run
anti-virus. But thank you I guess for somewhat protecting my computers in the
past, Ghost is a decent program, and maybe they can sell their product to
ISP's and servers to disinfect e-mail before they reach the end-users and/or
servers.

I don't want to give a whole lot of programs admin access because what
happens if/when that program gets exploited and does whatever it wants
because it's got full permission? Chances are that once Vista becomes the
final release, if a program asks for admin access, I'm going to say NO for
security/stability reasons. Anti-virus companies, browsers, and server
products are usually the front lines in that battle unfortunately. I kind of
like the security center as it is, and for them to throw a fit because they
are being told NO makes me suspicious, are they trying to blackmail Microsoft
into doing this? Why should Vista change instead of Symantec? It's called
adapting into the environment, and for Symantec, Windows is the environment.

Now about Adobe, another resource hog set of applications, sorry for the
negativity but at least I'm not pretending that it doesn't bother me. They
have some top notch applications apparently, Photoshop & Illustrator have
rocked since I can remember, they now have Flash, Dreamweaver, Coldfusion,
AND COOLEDIT (now called Audition). So they've got Developement Design &
Viewing packages, good stuff, their stocks are higher than both Microsoft &
Symantec separately. Microsoft provides the OS that their products run on,
and they want to sue them because the new version of the OS !!MIGHT!! enable
users to save files in the .PDF format? It's not like they're giving away
pirated versions of Adobe's software, just enabling the saving of files to
that format, like a compliment about a good product!

By the way, I will not be installing any Symantec products anytime soon
unless they change their mind about the Security Center issue, also if they
don't ease up on the registry keys, services, and all other hidden code - I
wont ever be installing their software ever again. Security is more than a
virus scan. As for Adobe, I wont be installing their products either because
I'd rather eat =) and not get bloated.
-----------------------------
 
G

Guest

Oh yeah, I worry about people losing their jobs but should decide to open up
our defenses in order to keep a few jobs? The only side effect we'd feel is
the insecurity of the most used OS, which might translate to less consumer
confidence in technology and lower than hoped for stocks. BUT Symantec will
still be around because Anti-virus is a cure for viruses, why not have cures
available, just don't infect me for the purpose of charging me money to cure
me! Just like I hope that the Middle East has another source of income other
than oil, I hope Symantec has more than one way to pay it's people or else
it's credit might slip.
 

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