A real manual?

[Guest]

I am tired of asking stupid questions - and always having to search online
and through the non-helpful help section of FP. Its absolutely absurd to pay
nearly $200 and opnly get a 25 page booklet that is an advertisement for
another book.

What is a good book I can buy? I know how to write code - I just want to
know how to use FP2003. For instance - I don't care about using other
people's templates - I have my own and I want to use FP to manipulate them -
and create my own templates - and I want to read about it - not stare through
the screen hoping my search query comes up or waiting for an online search or
having to come here alot for stupid questions that shoul;d have been answered
in an indexed manual. I am beginning to regret having purchased FP2003 - and
almost wished I bought DW4

Thank you.

 

[=?Windows-1252?Q?Rob_Giordano_\=28aka:_Crash_Gordo]

FrontPage 2003 Inside Out - Jim Buyens (who is a regular contributor here on the ng).

Worth every euro you pay for it.

---
Have your tried DW ?? Much more money...and learning is just as hard..if not harder.


| I am tired of asking stupid questions - and always having to search online
| and through the non-helpful help section of FP. Its absolutely absurd to pay
| nearly $200 and opnly get a 25 page booklet that is an advertisement for
| another book.
|
| What is a good book I can buy? I know how to write code - I just want to
| know how to use FP2003. For instance - I don't care about using other
| people's templates - I have my own and I want to use FP to manipulate them -
| and create my own templates - and I want to read about it - not stare through
| the screen hoping my search query comes up or waiting for an online search or
| having to come here alot for stupid questions that shoul;d have been answered
| in an indexed manual. I am beginning to regret having purchased FP2003 - and
| almost wished I bought DW4
|
| Thank you.

 

[Bob Lehmann]

Its absolutely absurd to pay nearly $200 and opnly get a 25 page booklet
that is an advertisement for another book.

You must not buy much software. That's pretty much SOP on all software.

Bob Lehmann

 

[Steve Easton]

Well, if you're using FP 2003 you must have Windows 2000 or XP.
Does either of them come with a manual?? Nope. So why should FrontPage??

The problem with using Help or Googling for answers boils down to one thing. Knowing the program
well enough to search using the proper terms / words.

--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer

 

[Guest]

:

You must not buy much software. That's pretty much SOP on all software.

No, I don't buy much software from makers who are hellbent on advertising
third party books. Besides, except perhaps a corporation, who needs MS
Office when Open Office is _free_. When someone pays $200 for a program -
they expect more than linked internet searches for help files. I have bought
MS Office applications before - and they included manuals. Other software I
purchase that have no manuals - do in fact have well written and well
responsive help sites or help features that return answers - not Microsoft.

 

[Guest]

Using the OS interface on a measure of complication is about 1 to FP's 100.
It doesn't matter - they both should have a manual. Because one program is
insufficient - it does not mean all other should be. You have set your
standards far to low.

 

[Steve Easton]

Depends upon how familiar you are with the OS and what you need to do, or are "trying" to do with
it.

As for the "standards" being to low, the logic is: Online help is easier to update and maintain.
Help installed with the application or provided in a manual is almost instantly outdated due to
upgrades hotfixes, etc.
Therefore you would have users reading either and trying to apply / use "outdated" instructions that
won't work.
Online help is updated simultaneously with service packs, updates etc.

But once again, the real issue is browsing and or searching help using the proper terminology.

--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer

 

[Tom Pepper Willett]

Software providers also scaled back manuals or discontinued them because of
the high cost involved in preparing and printing them. By doing so, they
didn't have to pass along the costs by increasing software cost.

I have purchased third party books for FrontPage, windows, etc., but still
find the help files and Google work best for me.

--
===
Tom "Pepper" Willett
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
---
About FrontPage 2003:
http://office.microsoft.com/home/office.aspx?assetid=FX01085802
FrontPage 2003 Product Information:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/frontpage/prodinfo/default.mspx
Understanding FrontPage:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/office/understanding/frontpage/
FrontPage 2002 Server Extensions Support Center:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;en-us;fp10se
===
| Depends upon how familiar you are with the OS and what you need to do, or
are "trying" to do with
| it.
|
| As for the "standards" being to low, the logic is: Online help is easier
to update and maintain.
| Help installed with the application or provided in a manual is almost
instantly outdated due to
| upgrades hotfixes, etc.
| Therefore you would have users reading either and trying to apply / use
"outdated" instructions that
| won't work.
| Online help is updated simultaneously with service packs, updates etc.
|
| But once again, the real issue is browsing and or searching help using the
proper terminology.
|
| --
| Steve Easton
| Microsoft MVP FrontPage
| 95isalive
| This site is best viewed............
| .......................with a computer
|
| | > Using the OS interface on a measure of complication is about 1 to FP's
100.
| > It doesn't matter - they both should have a manual. Because one program
is
| > insufficient - it does not mean all other should be. You have set your
| > standards far to low.
|
|

 

[=?Windows-1252?Q?Rob_Giordano_\=28aka:_Crash_Gordo]

DW is 399.00 for the download, if you want the Quick Start guide they charge you 15.00 more. I've not seen the guide but it sounds basic, and I'm guessing that that's just a pamphlet as well.





| Depends upon how familiar you are with the OS and what you need to do, or are "trying" to do with
| it.
|
| As for the "standards" being to low, the logic is: Online help is easier to update and maintain.
| Help installed with the application or provided in a manual is almost instantly outdated due to
| upgrades hotfixes, etc.
| Therefore you would have users reading either and trying to apply / use "outdated" instructions that
| won't work.
| Online help is updated simultaneously with service packs, updates etc.
|
| But once again, the real issue is browsing and or searching help using the proper terminology.
|
| --
| Steve Easton
| Microsoft MVP FrontPage
| 95isalive
| This site is best viewed............
| .......................with a computer
|
| | > Using the OS interface on a measure of complication is about 1 to FP's 100.
| > It doesn't matter - they both should have a manual. Because one program is
| > insufficient - it does not mean all other should be. You have set your
| > standards far to low.
|
|

 

[=?Windows-1252?Q?Rob_Giordano_\=28aka:_Crash_Gordo]

I've yet to find a book that answered my specific question and followup questions either....IMO the newsgroups are the BEST source of help.


| Software providers also scaled back manuals or discontinued them because of
| the high cost involved in preparing and printing them. By doing so, they
| didn't have to pass along the costs by increasing software cost.
|
| I have purchased third party books for FrontPage, windows, etc., but still
| find the help files and Google work best for me.
|
| --
| ===
| Tom "Pepper" Willett
| Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
| ---
| About FrontPage 2003:
| http://office.microsoft.com/home/office.aspx?assetid=FX01085802
| FrontPage 2003 Product Information:
| http://www.microsoft.com/office/frontpage/prodinfo/default.mspx
| Understanding FrontPage:
| http://msdn.microsoft.com/office/understanding/frontpage/
| FrontPage 2002 Server Extensions Support Center:
| http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;en-us;fp10se
| ===
| | | Depends upon how familiar you are with the OS and what you need to do, or
| are "trying" to do with
| | it.
| |
| | As for the "standards" being to low, the logic is: Online help is easier
| to update and maintain.
| | Help installed with the application or provided in a manual is almost
| instantly outdated due to
| | upgrades hotfixes, etc.
| | Therefore you would have users reading either and trying to apply / use
| "outdated" instructions that
| | won't work.
| | Online help is updated simultaneously with service packs, updates etc.
| |
| | But once again, the real issue is browsing and or searching help using the
| proper terminology.
| |
| | --
| | Steve Easton
| | Microsoft MVP FrontPage
| | 95isalive
| | This site is best viewed............
| | .......................with a computer
| |
| | | | > Using the OS interface on a measure of complication is about 1 to FP's
| 100.
| | > It doesn't matter - they both should have a manual. Because one program
| is
| | > insufficient - it does not mean all other should be. You have set your
| | > standards far to low.
| |
| |
|
|

 

[Tom Pepper Willett]

I agree pretty much, Rob.
I lurk in many newsgroups and forums, and the info has been invaluable.
--
===
Tom "Pepper" Willett
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
---
About FrontPage 2003:
http://office.microsoft.com/home/office.aspx?assetid=FX01085802
FrontPage 2003 Product Information:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/frontpage/prodinfo/default.mspx
Understanding FrontPage:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/office/understanding/frontpage/
FrontPage 2002 Server Extensions Support Center:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;en-us;fp10se
===
"Rob Giordano (aka: Crash Gordon®)" <[email protected]>
wrote in message I've yet to find a book that answered my specific question and followup
questions either....IMO the newsgroups are the BEST source of help.


| Software providers also scaled back manuals or discontinued them because
of
| the high cost involved in preparing and printing them. By doing so, they
| didn't have to pass along the costs by increasing software cost.
|
| I have purchased third party books for FrontPage, windows, etc., but still
| find the help files and Google work best for me.
|
| --
| ===
| Tom "Pepper" Willett
| Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
| ---
| About FrontPage 2003:
| http://office.microsoft.com/home/office.aspx?assetid=FX01085802
| FrontPage 2003 Product Information:
| http://www.microsoft.com/office/frontpage/prodinfo/default.mspx
| Understanding FrontPage:
| http://msdn.microsoft.com/office/understanding/frontpage/
| FrontPage 2002 Server Extensions Support Center:
| http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;en-us;fp10se
| ===
| | | Depends upon how familiar you are with the OS and what you need to do,
or
| are "trying" to do with
| | it.
| |
| | As for the "standards" being to low, the logic is: Online help is
easier
| to update and maintain.
| | Help installed with the application or provided in a manual is almost
| instantly outdated due to
| | upgrades hotfixes, etc.
| | Therefore you would have users reading either and trying to apply / use
| "outdated" instructions that
| | won't work.
| | Online help is updated simultaneously with service packs, updates etc.
| |
| | But once again, the real issue is browsing and or searching help using
the
| proper terminology.
| |
| | --
| | Steve Easton
| | Microsoft MVP FrontPage
| | 95isalive
| | This site is best viewed............
| | .......................with a computer
| |
| | | | > Using the OS interface on a measure of complication is about 1 to FP's
| 100.
| | > It doesn't matter - they both should have a manual. Because one
program
| is
| | > insufficient - it does not mean all other should be. You have set
your
| | > standards far to low.
| |
| |
|
|

 

[Bob Lehmann]

You appear to be a party-of-one in your views.

Bob Lehmann

:



No, I don't buy much software from makers who are hellbent on advertising
third party books. Besides, except perhaps a corporation, who needs MS
Office when Open Office is _free_. When someone pays $200 for a program -
they expect more than linked internet searches for help files. I have bought
MS Office applications before - and they included manuals. Other software I
purchase that have no manuals - do in fact have well written and well
responsive help sites or help features that return answers - not

Microsoft.

 

[Wally S]

I started with FP 98. I had never worked on the web before, but the software
came with a neat little manual that gave the basics of working with a web
and the basics of FP. It was helpful to the max, and it wasn't anything
fancy or expensive to print. It's too bad MS discontinued it, at least for
the basics.

But it is true that you can find what you want in the online help or with a
google serach on the web. And I've learned a lot from this conference too.
The nice thing about the conference is that I have learned stuff that I did
not even know was there to be learned.

Wally S

 

[Guest]

Absolutely agree. As a new user, you have all answered questions I didn't
know I had until I ran into the problem. Wouldn't have known what question to
ask withouth the dg.

 

[Ronx]

That manual is in the online FP2003 help files, spread through all the
different sections. The local version of Help is not so detailed.

 

[Auerbach]

I bought and have really benefited from "Using Microsoft Office Frontpage
2003," by Paul Colligan and Jim Cheshire, published by Que. The list price
is $39.99, but Amazon has it for $27. It starts with the basics and covers
the advanced stuff pretty well. It's over 1,000 pages.

It is annoying to have to shell out money for a book after spending hundreds
for a piece of software, but that seems to be a fact of life today. The good
news is that, with books, you can browse and pick one with an approach you
like, which isn't the case with a manual.

Alex

 

[Guest]

FrontPage 2000 came with a good users manual about 1/2 inch thick. I agree
that software should come with the basics for someone to read and learn
offline. I just purchased FP2003 upgrade and do not qualify for the free
training because I do not have Office 2003 (I have Office 2002). BIG RIP-OFF.

 

[Kathleen Anderson [MVP - FrontPage]]

What free training?

--

~ Kathleen Anderson
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
Spider Web Woman Designs
web: http://www.spiderwebwoman.com/resources/
blog: http://msmvps.com/spiderwebwoman/category/321.aspx

 

[=?Windows-1252?Q?Rob_Giordano_\=28Crash_Gordon=AE\]

How many times are you gonna post this?

I just bought Quick Books Pro...hundreds of dollars... and the book was 'maybe' 20 pages of nothing. Most new software doesn't come with big books anymore...or free training.

Use the F1 key for starters.