9600 non-pro, 9600 pro vs. 9800SE

[Tud]

Hy!

Can anybody tell me if 9800SE is really a good alternative to 9600pro
if
I am going to use the card mainly for 3D game making?

I mean, I don't have enough money for a 9800 or 9800 pro,
but I would (ideally) need full dx9 support. Is this achieved by
9800SE too (as compared to the other 9800's). And what about
performance of this Strange Edition? Can't find reliable reviews on
that and neither for 9600 non-pro and I would need to be sure there
aren't any cuts BUT performance(FrameSec) related ones in this SE
cards.

About 9600. I found a reasonably priced card, namely
"Gigabyte GV-R96128D-ATI Radeon 9600-128Mb DDRAM AGP 8X TV-OUT DVI
Dual display Retail (64bit)" - 114 USD. The cheapest pro version is
at 180 USD. Does anybody know of any review for it? Or, if you have
it, how does it behave?
Any reson to go for Hercules at 190 Euro, for huge retail 9600pro?

I have seen many frequencies listed for the 9600 cards off various
manufacturers. Which are the default ones? and memory speeds also.

Thank you!

 

[J.Clarke]

Which of these 3 support dx9?

All of them.

 

[Dark Avenger]

Hy!

Can anybody tell me if 9800SE is really a good alternative to 9600pro
if
I am going to use the card mainly for 3D game making?

I mean, I don't have enough money for a 9800 or 9800 pro,
but I would (ideally) need full dx9 support. Is this achieved by
9800SE too (as compared to the other 9800's). And what about
performance of this Strange Edition? Can't find reliable reviews on
that and neither for 9600 non-pro and I would need to be sure there
aren't any cuts BUT performance(FrameSec) related ones in this SE
cards.

About 9600. I found a reasonably priced card, namely
"Gigabyte GV-R96128D-ATI Radeon 9600-128Mb DDRAM AGP 8X TV-OUT DVI
Dual display Retail (64bit)" - 114 USD. The cheapest pro version is
at 180 USD. Does anybody know of any review for it? Or, if you have
it, how does it behave?
Any reson to go for Hercules at 190 Euro, for huge retail 9600pro?

I have seen many frequencies listed for the 9600 cards off various
manufacturers. Which are the default ones? and memory speeds also.

Thank you!

The 9800SE is not the card you seek, it's pushed way to far down the
budget level to really give interresting performance.

I would say that the 9600 Pro is something you should go for!

 

[Magwheelz]

I would (ideally) need full dx9 support.

Which of these 3 support dx9? If you are "going to need it" (and if
you are a gamer you will) then this is your call.
Gotta go,
Magwheelz

 

[J.Clarke]

On 21 Nov 2003 23:49:38 -0800

True, but only 9800 range of cards have "full dx9 compatibility", as
in
unlimited shader length.

I believe you are confusing present and future standards and the types
of shader. There are two different types of shader supported by DirectX
9, the vertex shader and the pixel shader. DirectX 9 provides vertex
shader 2.0 and 3.0, and pixel shader 2.0. 2.0 requires a 96-instruction
pixel shader length, and any board that provides this is in compliance
with that part of the specification.

Where the confusion comes in is that there is a preliminary standard for
pixel shader 3.0, which requires support for 512-instruction pixel
shaders. That is _not_ part of DirectX 9--it is different from the
_vertex_ shader 3.0 that _is_ in DirectX 9. There were rumors of
a "DirectX 9.1" that would be released as a"bug fix" and include pixel
shader 3.0, however the bug fix turned out to be"9.0b" instead of"9.1"
and did not include pixel shader 3.0. There is little question that
pixel shader 3.0 will be included in a future release of DirectX, but
when that will happen is an open question.

Meanwhile the 96-instruction shaders that the 9500, 9600, 9700 support
are all that is necessary for DirectX 9 compliance.

This whole issue is FUD stirred up by nvidia's PR department when ATI
started kicking their butts in the reviews.

 

[Tud]

All of them.

True, but only 9800 range of cards have "full dx9 compatibility", as
in
unlimited shader length.

Also, I have seen this article on 9800SE that got me thinkin' :
http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD02NTU

Only if I were lucky enough to get that percent of good chips...

Anyway, what sort of cuts does 9800SE have besides disabled pipes?
If I go for this, I would have to be able to program dx9 games the
same way like on the other 9800's. Does anybody see any reason why
this would not be so?

Thanks !

Tud

 

[Darthy]

Also, I have seen this article on 9800SE that got me thinkin' :
http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD02NTU

Only if I were lucky enough to get that percent of good chips...

Anyway, what sort of cuts does 9800SE have besides disabled pipes?
If I go for this, I would have to be able to program dx9 games the
same way like on the other 9800's. Does anybody see any reason why
this would not be so?

I've setup a 9600se to replace a failed Sappire 9000Pro card...

The 9600se was slower. It has 64bit memory, insteadof 128bit memory
which really hurts. For $130 retail with Half Life2 is not a bad
price but not for serious gaming.

Get at least a 9600... or 9600Pro ($160)... 9600XT includes Half
Life2.

http://www.ati.com/gitg/promotions/hl2offer/index.html

 

[Tud]

True, but only 9800 range of cards have "full dx9 compatibility", as
in
unlimited shader length.

I believe you are confusing present and future standards and the types
of shader.[...]
shaders that the 9500, 9600, 9700 support
are all that is necessary for DirectX 9 compliance.

This whole issue is FUD stirred up by nvidia's PR department when ATI
started kicking their butts in the reviews.

It is exactly this marketing gimmick that I'm trying to avoid.
I found something on ati's site regarding the SMARTSHADER version:
http://www.ati.com/products/radeon9600/radeon9600pro/specs.html
http://www.ati.com/products/radeon9800/radeon9800pro/specs.html

It looks like the 9800 range has the upper hand, and I'm pretty sure
that "F-buffer with unlimited instruction" is a feature that is going
to be used in the near future in games. So I think I'll go for a
9800SE, except if anyone can persuade me against it. (I need mostly
great programability not excesive gaming power).

Thanks!