64 or 32 bit for Games?

[Verger]

What is the general concensus on this? I am building a new machine and
games are the thing on it. 64 bit is rstrictive when it comes to
drivers. 32 bit is supported more easily. 64 bit for the future or
better support now?

Thinking of an OEM version here.

 

[Paul Smith]

What is the general concensus on this? I am building a new machine and
games are the thing on it. 64 bit is rstrictive when it comes to
drivers. 32 bit is supported more easily. 64 bit for the future or
better support now?

Good question, if your hardware is all supported, and you don't mind
tackling compatibility issues when they come up go 64-bit. Some games are
already using more than 2GB of RAM, which on 32-bit Windows has issues
unless you configure Windows to set more memory aside for applications, and
alter the game's executable to be large_address_aware.

In my opinion we'll start seeing games using more than say 3 or 4GB of RAM
within a couple of years, and as such they'll end up being compiled for
64-bit.

--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User.
http://www.dasmirnov.net/blog/
http://www.windowsresource.net/

*Remove nospam. to reply by e-mail*

 

[Guest]

You can run a 32 Bit O/S on a 64 Bit processor. I know Dell is installing
Vista on their 64 bit chip systems that way since a majority of consumers
still use 32 bit applications. But in the future if you want 64 bit, you can
do so.

 

[Andy]

You can run a 32 Bit O/S on a 64 Bit processor. I know Dell is installing
Vista on their 64 bit chip systems that way since a majority of consumers
still use 32 bit applications. But in the future if you want 64 bit, you
can
do so.

There are actually a couple notebooks at Best Buy (HPs or Gateways I think)
that come with Vista Premium x64, thought that was kind of cool, but at the
same time a little risky, BUT I'd be curious if you didn't tell a consumer
they were getting the 64-bit OS version, if they'd even notice?

I mean the drivers are obivously supported, wouldn't make much sense to sell
a computer without some of the drivers, so I mean it's not like there are
any programs that come up and say, sorry this won't run in Windows x64, as
far as I know.

I'm still ok with my 32-bit system. Only have 2 gigs of ram anyways. If a
game requires a minimum of 3gigs ram I'm gonna have to question the
programers ability to optimize game and art assets to a more manageable
level.

-a.

 

[Dale White]

I mean the drivers are obivously supported, wouldn't make much sense to
sell a computer without some of the drivers, so I mean it's not like there
are any programs that come up and say, sorry this won't run in Windows
x64, as far as I know.

I'm still ok with my 32-bit system. Only have 2 gigs of ram anyways. If a
game requires a minimum of 3gigs ram I'm gonna have to question the
programers ability to optimize game and art assets to a more manageable
level.

Well, Command and Conquer 3 had problems with Vista 64 until they released a
patch to fix it. Here is the deceptive error I got when I first try to run
it under Vista 64
http://images.filecloud.com/407563/CnC3_error.jpg
They fixed in a patch about a week or so after launce, but it would be
pretty frustrating for a new user to get hit with that right away.

PCanywhere and my VPN software still doesn't offer a 64bit version for
Vista. PCanywhere should have support very soon (though it's been 7 months)

Outside of that, V64 has been able to do most everything Vista32 does.
Personally, if one is not overly techncial, I'd stick with V32 for another
couple of years. If you like to tinker, then go for it

 

[Paul Graham]

Just before Vista came out, I built a new machine with Vista 64 in mind all
the way. My own experience has shown that it's older peripherals which
suffer, driver-wise, with 64bit OS but I would have thought in unlikely
anyone building a new machine is going to source older bits and pieces
unless you prefer Bargain Bin components! I checked each
manufacturer/vendors website for 64bit drivers, current or pending, before I
bought vid cards/sound cards etc.
I have had no real problem at all since installing V64, and still have no
major problems at all.

On the subject of games, this is really no different and my current rosta
includes:
Flight SimX
Halo2
SimCity4
Fable
Caesar VI
City Life
Black and White2

But there again, every computer set up is different as we all know. The only
thing that currently annoys me is Dreamweaver quits without warning at least
3 times an hour: but I'll get to the bottom of that one day!
Best of luck with the new PC.
Paul

 

[Verger]

Just before Vista came out, I built a new machine with Vista 64 in mind all
the way. My own experience has shown that it's older peripherals which
suffer, driver-wise, with 64bit OS but I would have thought in unlikely
anyone building a new machine is going to source older bits and pieces
unless you prefer Bargain Bin components! I checked each
manufacturer/vendors website for 64bit drivers, current or pending, before I
bought vid cards/sound cards etc.
I have had no real problem at all since installing V64, and still have no
major problems at all.

On the subject of games, this is really no different and my current rosta
includes:
Flight SimX
Halo2
SimCity4
Fable
Caesar VI
City Life
Black and White2

But there again, every computer set up is different as we all know. The only
thing that currently annoys me is Dreamweaver quits without warning at least
3 times an hour: but I'll get to the bottom of that one day!
Best of luck with the new PC.
Paul

Thanks to all for the help. since I am a gamer and I am designing my
new PC for games, perhaps 32 bit is the way to go even though it seems
that on 32 bit people experience a lot of problems anyway. I am
planning on buying Crysis and more of these very demanding games.

My system will look like this:

Gigabyte P353-DS3R (can use DDR2 and DDR3 RAM.)
2048 MB RAM, Kit, Crucial, DDR2 800Mhz (can upgrade to DDR3 later when
it becomes affordable and actually faster.)
Intel E6750
Point of View 8800 GTS 640MB
Creative X-Fi Music
Antec P180b case.

But games...apart from RAM hogging will there be other ways
developpers will effectively build for 64bit? And in what way? More
use of the dual cores?

Now, I have old peripherals. Scanner and printer. But I can use those
on my older XP SP2 system just fine. I suppose I could netwrok the two
and print over a network...and/or just use a USB stick of some size to
put docs back and forth. Should not e a big deal.

I suppose the cionfig above would not have trouble with Vista 64
bit... It is all new hardware. But it would be almost a disater when I
cannot play Crysis and Bioshock, Spore and more of these gems that are
released in the next year or so.

 

[Paul Graham]

"But it would be almost a disater when I

cannot play Crysis and Bioshock, Spore and more of these gems that are
released in the next year or so."

But why shouldn't they play on V64 though? Especially if you have a brand
new set-up.
Like some of the other posters have commented: 32bit apps will usually run
on a 64bit OS (an oversimplification admittedly...) but in my experience the
over-riding requirement is for the video and audio drivers to be compatible
with the OS. And at least with a 64bit system your future memory expansion
will be alot easier!

Paul - a 64 bit fan

 

[Verger]

"But it would be almost a disater when I

But why shouldn't they play on V64 though? Especially if you have a brand
new set-up.
Like some of the other posters have commented: 32bit apps will usually run
on a 64bit OS (an oversimplification admittedly...) but in my experience the
over-riding requirement is for the video and audio drivers to be compatible
with the OS. And at least with a 64bit system your future memory expansion
will be alot easier!

Paul - a 64 bit fan

So I see Well, I am about to click 'order' for 64 bit. I should
just accept that this is it! The transition from old to new, from 32
bit to 64bit. From old hardware to new hardware that from now on will
certainly feature 64 bit drivers. I worry about Total Commander. I am
not sure I can even use a computer without it. It does not support 64
bit. It woks though. DirOpus also works but doesn't support it. I
suppose in time they will.

Click, order placed. It is done. No way back now.

 

[Revolt]

I'm still ok with my 32-bit system. Only have 2 gigs of ram anyways. If a
game requires a minimum of 3gigs ram I'm gonna have to question the
programers ability to optimize game and art assets to a more manageable
level.

-a.

Yea, if Xbox 360 can run graphics intensive games with far less ram then
there is definitely something wrong with PC game designers or there is
something fundamentally wrong with the PC architecture as it currently is.
Maybe they need to dump the PC architecture and start from square one and
design it in a smarter way this time so it is more efficient.

 

[Revolt]

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:49:15 +0100, "Paul Graham"
Thanks to all for the help. since I am a gamer and I am designing my
new PC for games, perhaps 32 bit is the way to go even though it seems
that on 32 bit people experience a lot of problems anyway.

No, if you are designing a game today you should make it both 32bit and have
a 64bit exe too. 64bit is here to stay so start giving us the software that
can take advantage of it instead of taking the easy way out and making it
32bit only.

 

[Revolt]

So I see Well, I am about to click 'order' for 64 bit. I should
just accept that this is it! The transition from old to new, from 32
bit to 64bit. From old hardware to new hardware that from now on will
certainly feature 64 bit drivers. I worry about Total Commander. I am
not sure I can even use a computer without it. It does not support 64
bit. It woks though. DirOpus also works but doesn't support it. I
suppose in time they will.

Click, order placed. It is done. No way back now.

What do you do with your old hardware? I keep mine and have three PC's. Am
about to build a 4th. Because of that I can run pretty much any OS and game.
I have WinME, Win2KPro/XP/Vista all installed right now. Next machine will
make use of my caddy drive and will have Ubuntu Linux and probably Win98SE.
The only problem is finding room and enough power sockets to use them all.

 

[Verger]

What do you do with your old hardware? I keep mine and have three PC's. Am
about to build a 4th. Because of that I can run pretty much any OS and game.
I have WinME, Win2KPro/XP/Vista all installed right now. Next machine will
make use of my caddy drive and will have Ubuntu Linux and probably Win98SE.
The only problem is finding room and enough power sockets to use them all.

I keep my old hardware. I have an Epson Stylus Color 660. ink is
already hard to find for it. Some shops carry Epson's own ink but
mostly I have to rely on pelican or other ink-brands. The 660 was a
strange duck anyway from the start.

And I own an Agfa Snapcan 310. Good reliable scanner, bulky but for
the time flat enough. They run fine on XP. So I'll keep this amchine
on the side for when i want to print.

I was thinking of creating a network with my new Vista machine when it
is done. Still waiting for my mobo and processor and some stuff.

But I am afraid of networks and I am afraid of routers. It would be
cool to print over the network. But if it is handy to startup another
PC just for a printjob...

I was thinking perhaps buy an USB memstick of a GB or 2. I would still
have to turn on the other PC but I won't have to harass myself with
painful networking trouble.

On the old XP PC i will be able to run older games just fine. But at
some point you just have to switch over and cut the losses. There are
some games in a period from a few years after my geForce FX5600 until
now that won't run smoothly on my old XP machine but are already too
old to probably work flawlessly on the new Vista PC. I guess you can't
have it all.

From now I I'll fovcus on the new yummy stuff. Crysis and that sort of
juicy stuff and my Vista machine will run it just fine with an 8800
GTS 640 MB. And an E6850.

 

[Verger]

No, if you are designing a game today you should make it both 32bit and have
a 64bit exe too. 64bit is here to stay so start giving us the software that
can take advantage of it instead of taking the easy way out and making it
32bit only.

Yes I figured if I build a new PC for the future I mght as well go 64
bit and just let go of the greed to be able to run just about any game
of the last years I should have bought 2 years ago anyway.

The only annoying thing is that my XP machine is too old in GFX power
to run games of now. And I do not feel like investing in a new AGP
vidcard just to be able to play the games that were pusblished after
my old geforce FX5600.

I could get real cheap some GeForce 6600 or something in the 7 series.
But why waste money when already i spend 370 euro's on a vidcard for
my new Vista PC.

 

[Athos]

Yes I figured if I build a new PC for the future I mght as well go 64
bit and just let go of the greed to be able to run just about any game
of the last years I should have bought 2 years ago anyway.

The only annoying thing is that my XP machine is too old in GFX power
to run games of now. And I do not feel like investing in a new AGP
vidcard just to be able to play the games that were pusblished after
my old geforce FX5600.

I could get real cheap some GeForce 6600 or something in the 7 series.
But why waste money when already i spend 370 euro's on a vidcard for
my new Vista PC.


--

Verger

"What are we in time going by"-- Mountain ( For Yasgur's Farm)

Completed a new comp this week, with Vista 64, I do not regret it. It
actually runs UT99 very well, straight install. AA & Far cry too, but need a
little tweaking to get them going. Just Google it, a lot of information out
there.

Martin

 

[Guest]

I currently use my Vista 64 Ultimate for a gaming rig. As with all gamer
rigs, it's the latest and greatest so I haven't had a problem with 64 bit
drivers. Better to have the 64 bit to run the 32 bit apps to take advantage
of the 32 bit emulation and segregation of processing and memory management.