5 Year Old PC, Yeah, yeah, I know, get a new one!

[aaronhirshberg]

When I started my PC this evening it started up as soon as I turned
on
the power strip switch, so I never even pressed the on off button. It
started with a dark screen and ran through some configuration stuff,
and I pressed F1, and then it started normally.

I had to reset the clock, as it was back to November 2003, when it
was first turned on.


The computer is working normally now, and when I shut it down and
started it up again it was OK.


What happened? I know, I know, it is five years old, get a new one.
Aside from that, what happened?


Aaron Hirshberg
(e-mail address removed)

 

[Alias]

When I started my PC this evening it started up as soon as I turned
on
the power strip switch, so I never even pressed the on off button. It
started with a dark screen and ran through some configuration stuff,
and I pressed F1, and then it started normally.

I had to reset the clock, as it was back to November 2003, when it
was first turned on.


The computer is working normally now, and when I shut it down and
started it up again it was OK.


What happened? I know, I know, it is five years old, get a new one.
Aside from that, what happened?


Aaron Hirshberg
(e-mail address removed)

Sounds like it's the battery, a quarter looking round thing on the
motherboard. Replace it. It costs less than five bucks. You will have to
reset the BIOS to the way you want after changing the battery, the time
and date, for example, and if you've turned off shared video or audio,
etc. I'd go for the five bucks instead of a new computer ;-)

Alias

 

[aaronhirshberg]

Sounds like it's the battery, a quarter looking round thing on the
motherboard. Replace it. It costs less than five bucks. You will have to
reset the BIOS to the way you want after changing the battery, the time
and date, for example, and if you've turned off shared video or audio,
etc. I'd go for the five bucks instead of a new computer ;-)

Alias- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This is a 2003 Dell. Aren't batteries from the Flintstones time? I
had a 1992 Gateway that had a rechargeable battery.

I am primary curious about why the computer turned on when I turned on
the power strip instead of waiting for me to turn on the computer
itself.

Thanks for your input.

Aaron Hirshberg

(e-mail address removed)

 

[Terry R.]

The date and time was Tuesday, January 27, 2009 6:17:47 PM, and on a
whim, (e-mail address removed) pounded out on the keyboard:

This is a 2003 Dell. Aren't batteries from the Flintstones time? I
had a 1992 Gateway that had a rechargeable battery.

I am primary curious about why the computer turned on when I turned on
the power strip instead of waiting for me to turn on the computer
itself.

Thanks for your input.

Aaron Hirshberg

(e-mail address removed)

Hi Aaron,

Batteries are far from the stone age. You use a cell phone? iPod?
Car? Computer? Even rechargeable batteries die. Ever own a laptop?

Hard to say why it started when the power switch was turned on. I've
seen some do that when the power cord was plugged into the power supply.
It happens. If it did it every time, I would suspect your power
switch might have gone bad.

Since there isn't any guarantee for how long batteries last, the answer
you received from Alias seems correct.


Terry R.

 

[Paul]

This is a 2003 Dell. Aren't batteries from the Flintstones time? I
had a 1992 Gateway that had a rechargeable battery.

I am primary curious about why the computer turned on when I turned on
the power strip instead of waiting for me to turn on the computer
itself.

Thanks for your input.

Aaron Hirshberg

(e-mail address removed)

I've had a computer here, similar to your description, that turned
on immediately. It turned out that the IDE cable was only half plugged
in (it got knocked loose). It would seem that if something stresses
the Southbridge electrically, it can cause PS_ON# to be asserted
immediately.

Modern computers use a CR2032 battery, a "coin cell", which is
available from many sources. Even Radioshack carries them, as
does the watch repair counter of a local department store. The
battery is not rechargeable. No current is drawn from the battery,
if the computer is in sleep mode, or if the power supply
switch on the back of the computer is left in the ON position.

If you have the computer on a power strip, and turn off the power
strip at the end of each working day, then the computer doesn't
have power for 16 hours of every 24 hour day. During those
16 hours, the battery will be called on to power the RTC (real
time clock, very similar in concept to your digital wrist watch).
The RTC ticks over at 32768 hertz, just like your wrist watch.
The battery in your wrist watch wears out about every two
years. And the CR2032 wears out in three years, if the battery
is called on all the time, to provide timekeeping power.

So if you store a computer (pull plug, store in the attic), then
the battery will last for three years or so. (This is based on
how long they've been lasting here, on my collection of old computers.)

If the computer remains plugged in, and the switch on the back of
the PSU is ON all the time, then the battery should last for its
shelf life, maybe ten years or less.

The purpose of the battery, is to save BIOS settings, and
keep time, when the computer is unpowered or unplugged. The
CMOS settings could be stored in flash memory, so that
function doesn't really need to be stored in volatile battery
backed up RAM. It is debatable, whether setting the clock
each day, when you first turn on the computer, would please
most people. So the expense of changing the battery, is
the tradeoff. A battery could last ten years, and cost
$5.00, so that is $0.50 a year to save resetting the
clock a couple hundred times a year. There is no guarantee
a computer will be connected to the Internet, as otherwise
the NTP protocol could be used to set the time automatically.
My router sets its internal clock that way (NTP), each day
I turn it on.

I have at least one motherboard here, which was happy to run
with a flat battery. Each time the computer was used, I'd have
to enter the BIOS, set the time, set the boot order and so on.
Otherwise, operation on that one was completely normal.
I got tired of that pretty quickly, and replaced the battery.
There are some motherboards which won't start, if the
battery is flat. The normal CR2032 voltage is about 3.0V or
so, and things get dicey, when the voltage drops below 2.4V.

HTH,
Paul

 

[V Green]

The computer turned on via the power strip because
the settings for how the power switch behaves when it
is pushed are often stored in the CMOS and set in the BIOS.

Since the CMOS battery went dead, the settings were
lost.

Sounds like it's the battery, a quarter looking round thing on the
motherboard. Replace it. It costs less than five bucks. You will have to
reset the BIOS to the way you want after changing the battery, the time
and date, for example, and if you've turned off shared video or audio,
etc. I'd go for the five bucks instead of a new computer ;-)

Alias- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This is a 2003 Dell. Aren't batteries from the Flintstones time? I
had a 1992 Gateway that had a rechargeable battery.

I am primary curious about why the computer turned on when I turned on
the power strip instead of waiting for me to turn on the computer
itself.

Thanks for your input.

Aaron Hirshberg

(e-mail address removed)

 

[aaronhirshberg]

I've had a computer here, similar to your description, that turned
on immediately. It turned out that the IDE cable was only half plugged
in (it got knocked loose). It would seem that if something stresses
the Southbridge electrically, it can cause PS_ON# to be asserted
immediately.

Modern computers use a CR2032 battery, a "coin cell", which is
available from many sources. Even Radioshack carries them, as
does the watch repair counter of a local department store. The
battery is not rechargeable. No current is drawn from the battery,
if the computer is in sleep mode, or if the power supply
switch on the back of the computer is left in the ON position.

If you have the computer on a power strip, and turn off the power
strip at the end of each working day, then the computer doesn't
have power for 16 hours of every 24 hour day. During those
16 hours, the battery will be called on to power the RTC (real
time clock, very similar in concept to your digital wrist watch).
The RTC ticks over at 32768 hertz, just like your wrist watch.
The battery in your wrist watch wears out about every two
years. And the CR2032 wears out in three years, if the battery
is called on all the time, to provide timekeeping power.

So if you store a computer (pull plug, store in the attic), then
the battery will last for three years or so. (This is based on
how long they've been lasting here, on my collection of old computers.)

If the computer remains plugged in, and the switch on the back of
the PSU is ON all the time, then the battery should last for its
shelf life, maybe ten years or less.

The purpose of the battery, is to save BIOS settings, and
keep time, when the computer is unpowered or unplugged. The
CMOS settings could be stored in flash memory, so that
function doesn't really need to be stored in volatile battery
backed up RAM. It is debatable, whether setting the clock
each day, when you first turn on the computer, would please
most people. So the expense of changing the battery, is
the tradeoff. A battery could last ten years, and cost
$5.00, so that is $0.50 a year to save resetting the
clock a couple hundred times a year. There is no guarantee
a computer will be connected to the Internet, as otherwise
the NTP protocol could be used to set the time automatically.
My router sets its internal clock that way (NTP), each day
I turn it on.

I have at least one motherboard here, which was happy to run
with a flat battery. Each time the computer was used, I'd have
to enter the BIOS, set the time, set the boot order and so on.
Otherwise, operation on that one was completely normal.
I got tired of that pretty quickly, and replaced the battery.
There are some motherboards which won't start, if the
battery is flat. The normal CR2032 voltage is about 3.0V or
so, and things get dicey, when the voltage drops below 2.4V.

HTH,
      Paul- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Paul:

Thank you for your advice. Please explain what the IDE cable is. I
will also check on the web. This is a Dell DImension 4600 mini
tower. 5 years old. New power supply three months ago. I bought the
new PS from Dell and installed it myself and it works fine.

Aaron
(e-mail address removed)

 

[Ian D]

Sounds like it's the battery, a quarter looking round thing on the
motherboard. Replace it. It costs less than five bucks. You will have to
reset the BIOS to the way you want after changing the battery, the time
and date, for example, and if you've turned off shared video or audio,
etc. I'd go for the five bucks instead of a new computer ;-)

Alias- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This is a 2003 Dell. Aren't batteries from the Flintstones time? I
had a 1992 Gateway that had a rechargeable battery.

I am primary curious about why the computer turned on when I turned on
the power strip instead of waiting for me to turn on the computer
itself.

Thanks for your input.

Aaron Hirshberg

(e-mail address removed)

Check the BIOS and make sure restore on AC power loss
isn't set to something like Power On, or Last State, in the
power settings.

 

[aaronhirshberg]

The computer turned on via the power strip because
the settings for how the power switch behaves when it
is pushed are often stored in the CMOS and set in the BIOS.

Since the CMOS battery went dead, the settings were
lost.







This is a 2003 Dell.  Aren't batteries from the Flintstones time?  I
had a 1992 Gateway that had a rechargeable battery.

I am primary curious about why the computer turned on when I turned on
the power strip instead of waiting for me to turn on the computer
itself.

Thanks for your input.

AaronHirshberg

(e-mail address removed)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So I have to replace my CMOS battery? I see a small nickel sized disc
on the mother board. I will check on the web to learn how to do
that. My old 1992 Gateway had a rechargeable battery.

Aaron Hirshberg

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

When I started my PC this evening it started up as soon as I turned
on
the power strip switch, so I never even pressed the on off button. It
started with a dark screen and ran through some configuration stuff,
and I pressed F1, and then it started normally.

I had to reset the clock, as it was back to November 2003, when it
was first turned on.

Answered in another newsgroup. Please do not send the same message
separately to more than one newsgroup (called multiposting). Doing so
just fragments the thread, so someone who answers in one newsgroup
doesn't get to see answers from others in another newsgroup. And for
those who read all the newsgroups the message is multiposted to, they
see the message multiple times instead of once (they would see it only
once if you correctly crossposted instead). This wastes everyone's
time, and gets you poorer help than you should get.

If you must send the same message to more than one newsgroup, please
do so by crossposting -- sending a single message simultaneously to
multiple newsgroups (but only to a *few* related newsgroups).

Please see "Multiposting vs Crossposting" at
http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm

 

[Paul]

Paul:

Thank you for your advice. Please explain what the IDE cable is. I
will also check on the web. This is a Dell DImension 4600 mini
tower. 5 years old. New power supply three months ago. I bought the
new PS from Dell and installed it myself and it works fine.

Aaron
(e-mail address removed)

The IDE cable is the ribbon cable that runs between
a motherboard connector and a connector on the
back of the hard drive. On mine, only half the
pins were making contact, as I bumped the cable
by accident while working inside the computer.
I didn't notice that, until after the computer
came on immediately.

Problems with PS_ON# can be at either end of
the main power supply cable. A bad power supply
can start all by itself, which is one failure
mode. A problem could also arise, at the motherboard
end, which could keep the PS_ON# signal asserted.
So it may not be possible to isolate the problem
immediately to just one component part of the
computer.

Make sure the cables are all seated, and that
the battery is good (measures 3.0V DC). If in
doubt, put a new battery in it. You can take
the battery to RadioShack if you aren't sure about
it, and they can check it for you. It doesn't
need to be "load tested", because even the open
circuit voltage is enough to tell you whether it
is OK or not. )The normal load on the battery is
only a couple microamps or so.) I believe the battery
has a relatively sharp knee, and when it drops below
3.0V, it doesn't take too many days until it is flat.

Paul

 

[Peter Foldes]

Boy did you do a job on multiposting this.

http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm

 

[aaronhirshberg]

How about telling me where is this other newsgroup and so on so I can
see it?

Aaron Hirshberg

 

[aaronhirshberg]

How about telling me where is this other newsgroup and so on so I can
see it?

Aaron Hirshberg

Never mind, I found your advice in the other ng. Thank you.

Aaron Hirshberg

 

[Alias]

So I have to replace my CMOS battery? I see a small nickel sized disc
on the mother board. I will check on the web to learn how to do
that. My old 1992 Gateway had a rechargeable battery.

Aaron Hirshberg

Look at it closely and you will see how to remove the battery. It should
have a movable tab/clip.

Alias

 

[Tim Slattery]

So I have to replace my CMOS battery? I see a small nickel sized disc
on the mother board. I will check on the web to learn how to do
that. My old 1992 Gateway had a rechargeable battery.

The "nickel sized disc" would be the battery. It should be resting in
a clip that you can pop it out of and pop a new one into. Normally I'd
tell you to go through the BIOS config screens and write everything
down (or print it out, if possible) before doing this, but since it
seems to have gone dead already I don't think that's necessary.

 

[Olórin]

How about telling me where is this other newsgroup and so on so I can
see it?

Aaron Hirshberg

Simple - just check out all the groups you multiposted to!

 

[Twayne]

When I started my PC this evening it started up

as soon
as I turned on
the power strip switch, so I never even pressed
the on
off button. It started with a dark screen and
ran through
some configuration stuff, and I pressed F1, and
then it
started normally.

I had to reset the clock, as it was back to
November
2003, when it was first turned on.


The computer is working normally now, and when I
shut it
down and started it up again it was OK.


What happened? I know, I know, it is five years
old, get
a new one. Aside from that, what happened?


Aaron Hirshberg
(e-mail address removed)