250 GB drives - please help


A

Adam

What do I need to do to get my system to
recognize and boot from a 250 GB drive?

Award BIOS 1009 will not properly recognize a 250 GB drive.
Is there a newer Award BIOS version that
will support 250 GB drives?

Or, is it better to just use the Maxtor Ultra ATA/133 PCI Adapter Card?
Using the Maxtor Ultra ATA/133 PCI Adapter Card,
how do I set the BIOS in order to boot from the 250 GB drive?


Here's what's "currently" installed:

OS: Windows 98 SE
Motherboard: Asus A7V133 (rev "1.05." with Award BIOS 1009)
HDD (PriMastr): Seagate Barracuda ATA IV - ST340016A - ATA100 - 40 GB - 7200 RPM
HDD (PriSlave): Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 - ST3120026A - ATA100 - 120 GB - 7200
RPM
CD-RW (2ndMastr): Lite-On 52x24x52x (LTR-52246S)
DVD-ROM (2ndSlave): Pioneer 16x DVD-116 (40x for CD-ROM)
Maxtor Ultra ATA/133 PCI Adapter Card connected to ...
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 - ST3250620A - ATA100 - 250 GB - 7200 RPM
 
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R

Rod Speed

Adam said:
What do I need to do to get my system to
recognize and boot from a 250 GB drive?

Upgrade the OS for starters, 98SE doesnt support drives over 128GB properly.
Award BIOS 1009 will not properly recognize a 250 GB drive.

Yes it will with an OS with 48 bit LBA support.
Is there a newer Award BIOS version that will support 250 GB drives?
Or, is it better to just use the Maxtor Ultra ATA/133 PCI Adapter Card?

That wont fix the OS problem.
Using the Maxtor Ultra ATA/133 PCI Adapter Card, how
do I set the BIOS in order to boot from the 250 GB drive?

You need a biosed card to do that.
 
9

98 Guy

Rod said:
Upgrade the OS for starters, 98SE doesnt support drives over
128GB properly.

The problem for win-98 and drives larger than 128 gb is the
protected-mode driver ESDI_506.PDR. There are modified/fixed versions
of it available via the win-98 forum on msfn.org. The Intel
Application Accelerator also supplied a different (replacement) file
that breaks the 128 gb barrier - but only for systems with certain
Intel chipset's.

However, the problem can be avoided by using a third-party IDE or SATA
adapter card, or if the system has on-board SATA controller. When
installing and running win-98 on a SATA hard drive, the driver
ESDI_506.PDR does not come into play.
That wont fix the OS problem.

Most likely it will. Third-party PCI controller cards will usually
come with their own equivalent to the original MS driver ESDI_506.PDR.

Natively, win-98 can handle drives at least as large as 500 gb, and
with at many as 120 million clusters. I've formatted a 500 gb drive
as FAT32 using (forcing) 4kb cluster size and win-98 has no problem
with it (although scandisk and defrag don't exactly like it).
You need a biosed card to do that.

Disable your on-board IDE controllers in the BIOS, or fool around with
the boot order sequence.

And I suggest you get a PCI *SATA* controller, not IDE (unless you
already have a 250 gb IDE (PATA) drive.
 
A

Adam

98 Guy said:
The problem for win-98 and drives larger than 128 gb is the
protected-mode driver ESDI_506.PDR. There are modified/fixed versions
of it available via the win-98 forum on msfn.org. The Intel
Application Accelerator also supplied a different (replacement) file
that breaks the 128 gb barrier - but only for systems with certain
Intel chipset's.

However, the problem can be avoided by using a third-party IDE or SATA
adapter card, or if the system has on-board SATA controller. When
installing and running win-98 on a SATA hard drive, the driver
ESDI_506.PDR does not come into play.


Most likely it will. Third-party PCI controller cards will usually
come with their own equivalent to the original MS driver ESDI_506.PDR.

Natively, win-98 can handle drives at least as large as 500 gb, and
with at many as 120 million clusters. I've formatted a 500 gb drive
as FAT32 using (forcing) 4kb cluster size and win-98 has no problem
with it (although scandisk and defrag don't exactly like it).


Disable your on-board IDE controllers in the BIOS, or fool around with
the boot order sequence.

And I suggest you get a PCI *SATA* controller, not IDE (unless you
already have a 250 gb IDE (PATA) drive.


Yes, you are quite right. The following URL ...
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/42489/
was of particular help. But, in my case,
the following BIOS settings did the trick ...

Boot Sequence ...

1) Removable Device [Legacy Floppy]
2) ATAPI CD-ROM [LITE-ON LTR-52246S]
3) Other Boot Device [Onboard ATA Boot]
4) IDE Hard Drive [ST3120026A]


Another question I have is ...
can the Win98SE boot partition be greater than 8 GB?
Is there a workaround?
 
A

Andy

What do I need to do to get my system to
recognize and boot from a 250 GB drive?

Award BIOS 1009 will not properly recognize a 250 GB drive.
Is there a newer Award BIOS version that
will support 250 GB drives?

Or, is it better to just use the Maxtor Ultra ATA/133 PCI Adapter Card?
Using the Maxtor Ultra ATA/133 PCI Adapter Card,
how do I set the BIOS in order to boot from the 250 GB drive?

SCSI/ATA100 Boot Sequence [ATA100/SCSI]
Configuration options: [ATA100/SCSI] [SCSI/ATA100]
Set this to: SCSI/ATA100
 
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R

Rod Speed

98 Guy said:
Rod Speed wrote
The problem for win-98 and drives larger than 128 gb
is the protected-mode driver ESDI_506.PDR.

Its more complicated than just that.
http://www.48bitlba.com/win98.htm
There are modified/fixed versions of it available via the win-98
forum on msfn.org. The Intel Application Accelerator also
supplied a different (replacement) file that breaks the 128 gb
barrier - but only for systems with certain Intel chipset's.

See above.
However, the problem can be avoided by using
a third-party IDE or SATA adapter card,

Thats a poor way to describe one of those cards,
there is no 'third party' involved thats relevant.
or if the system has on-board SATA controller. When
installing and running win-98 on a SATA hard drive, the
driver ESDI_506.PDR does not come into play.

There is more involved than JUST the driver.
Most likely it will.
Nope.

Third-party PCI controller cards will usually come with their
own equivalent to the original MS driver ESDI_506.PDR.

There is more involved than JUST the driver.
Natively, win-98 can handle drives at least as large
as 500 gb, and with at many as 120 million clusters.

Pity about
http://www.48bitlba.com/win98.htm
I've formatted a 500 gb drive as FAT32 using (forcing) 4kb cluster size and
win-98 has no problem with it (although scandisk and defrag don't exactly like it).

Pity those are part of Win-98
Disable your on-board IDE controllers in the BIOS,

It wont necessarily boot at all if you just do that.
or fool around with the boot order sequence.

The card wont be listed in the boot order sequence if it isnt biosed.
 
R

Rod Speed

Adam said:
98 Guy said:
The problem for win-98 and drives larger than 128 gb is the
protected-mode driver ESDI_506.PDR. There are modified/fixed
versions of it available via the win-98 forum on msfn.org. The Intel
Application Accelerator also supplied a different (replacement) file
that breaks the 128 gb barrier - but only for systems with certain
Intel chipset's.

However, the problem can be avoided by using a third-party IDE or
SATA adapter card, or if the system has on-board SATA controller.
When installing and running win-98 on a SATA hard drive, the driver
ESDI_506.PDR does not come into play.


Most likely it will. Third-party PCI controller cards will usually
come with their own equivalent to the original MS driver
ESDI_506.PDR.

Natively, win-98 can handle drives at least as large as 500 gb, and
with at many as 120 million clusters. I've formatted a 500 gb drive
as FAT32 using (forcing) 4kb cluster size and win-98 has no problem
with it (although scandisk and defrag don't exactly like it).


Disable your on-board IDE controllers in the BIOS, or fool around
with the boot order sequence.

And I suggest you get a PCI *SATA* controller, not IDE (unless you
already have a 250 gb IDE (PATA) drive.


Yes, you are quite right. The following URL ...
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/42489/
was of particular help. But, in my case,
the following BIOS settings did the trick ...

Boot Sequence ...

1) Removable Device [Legacy Floppy]
2) ATAPI CD-ROM [LITE-ON LTR-52246S]
3) Other Boot Device [Onboard ATA Boot]
4) IDE Hard Drive [ST3120026A]

You'll still have other problems with SE
http://www.48bitlba.com/win98.htm

Another question I have is ...
can the Win98SE boot partition be greater than 8 GB?
Yep.

Is there a workaround?

Dont need one.
 
9

98 Guy

Rod said:
Its more complicated than just that.
http://www.48bitlba.com/win98.htm

I've looked at that site before - I'm not going to look at it now.

What-ever you think is "more complicated than just that" you'd better
cut and paste into this thread for your next reply.
See above.

You said nothing in the "above".
Thats a poor way to describe one of those cards,
there is no 'third party' involved thats relevant.

The third party is the manufacturer of the card, who must supply a
driver solution.
There is more involved than JUST the driver.

Explain what is involved beyond fixing or replacing ESDI_506.pdr.

Again, please quote something relavent from that site that supports
your position.
Pity those are part of Win-98

Not what I'd call part of it's core functionality. They are accessory
applications, and there are substitutes for them, such as the
Windows-ME versions.

So far you haven't said anything meaningful or authoritative.
 
A

Adam

98 Guy said:
That is a URL. If there are "other problems" then describe them, or
cut and paste them into this thread.



Win-NT-4 had the 8 gb primary partition limitation. Not win-98
(assuming you've formatted the target drive as FAT-32). Maybe FAT-16
has an 8gb volume size limitation, but that's not a win-98 issue.


Okay, I guess I can ignore the message/warning from
PartitionMagic8 about crossing the 1024 cylinder when
increasing the primary/active/boot Win98SE FAT32 partition size.
 
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R

Rod Speed

Adam said:
Okay, I guess I can ignore the message/warning from
PartitionMagic8 about crossing the 1024 cylinder when
increasing the primary/active/boot Win98SE FAT32 partition size.

Yeah, its just PM not being explicit enough with the text of the warning.
 
R

Rod Speed

98 Guy said:
Rod Speed wrote
I've looked at that site before - I'm not going to look at it now.

You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.

What you might or might not look at now in spades.
What-ever you think is "more complicated than just that"
you'd better cut and paste into this thread for your next reply.

You'd better go and **** yourself instead.
You said nothing in the "above".

Lying now.
The third party is the manufacturer of the card,

Doesnt need to be a third party, and there is no second party anyway.
who must supply a driver solution.
Wrong.
Explain what is involved beyond fixing or replacing ESDI_506.pdr.

Read whats at the url provided.
Again, please quote something relavent from that site that supports your position.

Again, go and **** yourself. If you cant read whats at that url, thats your problem.
Not what I'd call part of it's core functionality.

You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.

What you might or might not call something in spades.
They are accessory applications, and there are substitutes
for them, such as the Windows-ME versions.

Pity the ME versions have the same problem.
So far you haven't said anything meaningful or authoritative.

That url does tho, ****wit.
 
A

Adam

Adam said:
Okay, I guess I can ignore the message/warning from
PartitionMagic8 about crossing the 1024 cylinder when
increasing the primary/active/boot Win98SE FAT32 partition size.


BTW, I am now able to boot Win98SE from
the new 250 GB drive that is connected to
the Maxtor Ultra ATA/133 PCI Adapter Card.
And, no problems so far.

Also, I now have a two master HDD setup according to
the following URL ...

Best practices for partitioning a hard disk
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/expert/tulloch_partition.mspx

where the swap file (Win386.swp) has been moved to
a paging partition located on the non-system HDD.
Not sure what the minimum swap file size should be for
a 512 MB RAM system. So, I started by setting it to 100 MB.
 
R

Rod Speed

Adam said:
BTW, I am now able to boot Win98SE from
the new 250 GB drive that is connected to
the Maxtor Ultra ATA/133 PCI Adapter Card.
And, no problems so far.

Try running scandisk.
Also, I now have a two master HDD setup according to the following URL ...

That steaming turd should be flushed where it belongs.
where the swap file (Win386.swp) has been moved to
a paging partition located on the non-system HDD.

Pointless with modern systems with enough physical ram.
Not sure what the minimum swap file size should be for a 512 MB RAM system.

There is no nice tidy size, it depends on what apps you use.
So, I started by setting it to 100 MB.

You should let the OS handle it.
 
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9

98 Guy

Nim Rod spewed:
That url does tho, ****wit.

You have no argument.

You keep saying there is more to it than ESDI_506.PDR, yet you won't
explain or elaborate.

Which means you don't know what the **** you're talking about.

You're hiding behind a URL. I know someone else that did/does the
same thing. He, like you, doesn't have the balls to support their
claims. Pointing to a URL is not good enough. If the URL contains
material to support your claim, then copy it here, or explain it in
your own words (or are you not capable of that?).

The fact is that win-98 is compatible with very large hard drives, up
to (and probably exceeding) 500 gb. I've installed win-98 on a 500 gb
hard drive, formatted as a single partition, and forcing it to use 4kb
cluster size.

If I used the default cluster size (32 kb) then win-98's native
scandisk and defrag would work fine.

If you want to argue that what I did is impossible, then go ahead.
Pointing to a URL is not an argument.
 
A

Adam

98 Guy said:
Nim Rod spewed:


You have no argument.

You keep saying there is more to it than ESDI_506.PDR, yet you won't
explain or elaborate.

Which means you don't know what the **** you're talking about.

You're hiding behind a URL. I know someone else that did/does the
same thing. He, like you, doesn't have the balls to support their
claims. Pointing to a URL is not good enough. If the URL contains
material to support your claim, then copy it here, or explain it in
your own words (or are you not capable of that?).

The fact is that win-98 is compatible with very large hard drives, up
to (and probably exceeding) 500 gb. I've installed win-98 on a 500 gb
hard drive, formatted as a single partition, and forcing it to use 4kb
cluster size.

If I used the default cluster size (32 kb) then win-98's native
scandisk and defrag would work fine.

If you want to argue that what I did is impossible, then go ahead.
Pointing to a URL is not an argument.


Not sure what the potential problem is
with ScanDisk+Win98SE+Big Drives but
my system "currently" doesn't have a problem with ScanDisk.
PartitionMagic8 had a slight glitch in
relabeling a partition on the non-system HDD. But,
it might be due to my forgetting to
disable Norton AntiVirus Auto-Protect beforehand.
I was able to relabel the partition using Windows Explorer.
I'll have to revisit relabeling in PartitionMagic8 again.
Anyhow, I'll proceed cautiously (with backups) in
doubling the boot partition size when
I have time tonight (or tomorrow). It is good to know that
it is possible to keep a dinosaur alive.
 
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9

98 Guy

Adam said:
Not sure what the potential problem is with ScanDisk+Win98SE+
Big Drives

First, understand that there are 2 scandisk's. One is the DOS
scandisk (scandisk.exe) and the second is Windows scandisk
(scandskw.exe + diskmaint.dll). Then there is defrag (AKA windows
defrag).

The windows scandisk and defrag have problems when the number of
allocation units (AKA clusters) exceeds a certain number (I think it's
4 million but it could be 6 or 8 million). The windows ME versions of
scandisk and defrag have a higher limit (and most people recommend you
use them on your win-98 system for other reasons anyways).

The DOS version of scandisk (the one that sometimes runs at startup
when a bad shutdown was detected) actually doesn't have a limit from
my own tests, so it's quite robust in that regard.

The idiot (Rod) is claiming there is some other issue regarding large
hard drives and win-98, but he refuses to describe it.

And by the way, you don't need PM to prepare a large hard drive for
win-98. What you need is simply the updated version of fdisk.exe (may
2000 I think). It will correctly partition a large drive (250 gb or
larger) and then you use format.com to format it.

The only time I use something other than Fdisk/Format is when I want
to force a certain cluster size.

(I'm trimming the asus newsgroup from this reply because the NNTP
server that I use has a limit of 3 groups for a cross-post).
 

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