24/7

  • Thread starter Thread starter Carl G
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Carl G

Hi Yall
Why does so many people recomend leaveing your PC run 24/7 ?
It sure seams to me it would be like any other tool, when not in use shut it
off.
Seams like it would last a lot longer.
You surly don't leave your automobile running 24/7 just so you don't have
restart it when you want to use it.
Just don't don't make sense to me.
Maybe someone can try and educate me more.
Thanks
 
Carl said:
Why does so many people recomend leaveing your PC run 24/7 ?

Three reasons. First, you don't have to wait for the computer to
reboot when you turn it back on. Second, my understanding from a
computer expert who writes XP books -- to whom I asked this very
question a few weeks ago at his blogsite -- is that today's hard
drives are designed to last five years or longer even if left
constantly on. Third, there is no evidence I know of that turning the
machine on or off every day will prolong its useful life. I would
think that, if anything, the opposite is true.

Incidentally, my previous computer was a Dell that I kept constantly
on for the five years that I owned it. I never had a problem with it,
and even today it still runs like a champ for my niece (to whom I gave
it when I bought my new machine).
It sure seams to me it would be like any other tool, when not in use shut it
off.

Not necessarily.
Seams like it would last a lot longer.

Not necessarily. Probably not even true.
You surly don't leave your automobile running 24/7 just so you don't have
restart it when you want to use it.

Computers are not cars.
Just don't don't make sense to me.
Maybe someone can try and educate me more.

Hope this helps. Let me add a few more comments. First, a computer
that is constantly on will outperform a computer that is constantly
turned on or off. The reason has to do with the system cache, which
is part of Windows memory management. When you boot up a computer,
code is initially loaded from your slow hard drive into your blazing
fast RAM. From that point on, it stays in RAM (even when you close
the program or file) until another application or file that you opened
more recently needs the memory. As long as the original code remains
in RAM -- and the more RAM you have, the longer it will stay there --
the faster it will execute or load the next time you use it. When you
shut down the computer, however, everything in blazing fast RAM is
lost, meaning that you once again have to load files from the much
slower hard drive when you later turn the computer back on and it
reboots.

The only time you need to shut down or reboot your computer is when
installing and uninstalling hardware or hardware drivers, installing
or uninstalling software and updates, when you need to run chkdsk on
the system drive, and when your system becomes unstable and cannot be
restored through lesser means than a reboot.

Second, if you leave your computer constantly on, XP and your other
software can be configured to do the "cleaning the sock drawer" tasks
in the middle of the night, such as updating your software, checking
Windows Update, or scanning your machines for malware.

Last, if you are concerned about power consumption, try using the
hibernate function as an alternative to shutting down. Even here a
computer will wake up faster from hibernation than it will from a
reboot, especially a cold reboot. And it may even be the case that
all the files that were in RAM prior to hibernation will be loaded
back into RAM, meaning that you don't take a performance hit, either.

Ken
 
On 2/19/2005 12:31 PM On a whim, Carl G pounded out on the keyboard
Hi Yall
Why does so many people recomend leaveing your PC run 24/7 ?
It sure seams to me it would be like any other tool, when not in use shut it
off.
Seams like it would last a lot longer.
You surly don't leave your automobile running 24/7 just so you don't have
restart it when you want to use it.
Just don't don't make sense to me.
Maybe someone can try and educate me more.
Thanks

Hi Carl,

It's more personal preference today.

On'ers believe that starting the computer wears on it more than leaving
it on. And say you don't have to wait for it to boot.

Off'ers (I'm in this group) think running it when it's not being used is
unnecessary and wastes energy (because a lot of people turn off the
energy saving features because they cause problems). I believe in giving
components a break, even if the Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF) states
it can run for years. And it doesn't matter to me to wait 30 seconds for
my computer to boot. And Windows gets a fresh start every day which I
still believe is a good thing, regardless of XP being more stable.

If they really weren't designed to be shut off, why have the power
switch? They removed the 3½ floppy and yet the power switch remains.
Sure I'm joking a bit here but there is truth in it. If it truly wasn't
needed, they'd eliminate it and probably remove "Shutdown" from the menu.

I've seen both situations have failures, so go with what you feel and
don't worry about what anyone else thinks.

--
Terry

***Reply Note***
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
 
Our servers have power switches, but we let them run 24/7 ;-)

Tom
| On 2/19/2005 12:31 PM On a whim, Carl G pounded out on the keyboard
|
| > Hi Yall
| > Why does so many people recomend leaveing your PC run 24/7 ?
| > It sure seams to me it would be like any other tool, when not in use
shut it
| > off.
| > Seams like it would last a lot longer.
| > You surly don't leave your automobile running 24/7 just so you don't
have
| > restart it when you want to use it.
| > Just don't don't make sense to me.
| > Maybe someone can try and educate me more.
| > Thanks
| >
|
| Hi Carl,
|
| It's more personal preference today.
|
| On'ers believe that starting the computer wears on it more than leaving
| it on. And say you don't have to wait for it to boot.
|
| Off'ers (I'm in this group) think running it when it's not being used is
| unnecessary and wastes energy (because a lot of people turn off the
| energy saving features because they cause problems). I believe in giving
| components a break, even if the Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF) states
| it can run for years. And it doesn't matter to me to wait 30 seconds for
| my computer to boot. And Windows gets a fresh start every day which I
| still believe is a good thing, regardless of XP being more stable.
|
| If they really weren't designed to be shut off, why have the power
| switch? They removed the 3½ floppy and yet the power switch remains.
| Sure I'm joking a bit here but there is truth in it. If it truly wasn't
| needed, they'd eliminate it and probably remove "Shutdown" from the menu.
|
| I've seen both situations have failures, so go with what you feel and
| don't worry about what anyone else thinks.
|
| --
| Terry
|
| ***Reply Note***
| Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
| Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
 
Apparently, _Terry_, on 19/02/05 16:44,typed:
On 2/19/2005 12:31 PM On a whim, Carl G pounded out on the keyboard
If they really weren't designed to be shut off, why have the power
switch? They removed the 3½ floppy and yet the power switch remains.
Sure I'm joking a bit here but there is truth in it. If it truly wasn't
needed, they'd eliminate it and probably remove "Shutdown" from the menu.

It "truly" is needed. First of all, designing a machine like this
without a power switch would be a lack of engineering common sense
marvel. Second obviously is what will you do if you wanted to change a
component?

BTW, coming back to running 24/7, others have given some interesting
points. But if one prefers to switch off the machine (too much hum,
power saving, or just feeling better) then switch it off. In other
cases, e.g. running servers, it has to be left ON. So it depends on
quite a few factors, some personal some technological.

Sam.
 
Terry said:
On 2/19/2005 12:31 PM On a whim, Carl G pounded out on the keyboard

snip >
If they really weren't designed to be shut off, why have the power switch?
They removed the 3½ floppy and yet the power switch remains. Sure I'm
joking a bit here but there is truth in it. If it truly wasn't needed,
they'd eliminate it and probably remove "Shutdown" from the menu.

Depending on the jurisdiction, it may be a legal requirement for the
equipment to have its own on/off switch.
 
Terry said:
On 2/19/2005 12:31 PM On a whim, Carl G pounded out on the keyboard


Hi Carl,

It's more personal preference today.

On'ers believe that starting the computer wears on it more than leaving it
on. And say you don't have to wait for it to boot.

Off'ers (I'm in this group) think running it when it's not being used is
unnecessary and wastes energy (because a lot of people turn off the energy
saving features because they cause problems). I believe in giving
components a break, even if the Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF) states
it can run for years. And it doesn't matter to me to wait 30 seconds for
my computer to boot. And Windows gets a fresh start every day which I
still believe is a good thing, regardless of XP being more stable.

If they really weren't designed to be shut off, why have the power switch?
They removed the 3½ floppy and yet the power switch remains. Sure I'm
joking a bit here but there is truth in it. If it truly wasn't needed,
they'd eliminate it and probably remove "Shutdown" from the menu.

I've seen both situations have failures, so go with what you feel and
don't worry about what anyone else thinks.

--
Terry

***Reply Note***
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.


When your system is powered down, your board is still receiving minimal
power unless you physically unplug it from the wall outlet or turn the power
supply switch off.
 
Our servers have power switches, but we let them run 24/7 ;-)

I have many workstations and servers in my home, two firewall appliances,
about 6 NAT routers, a dozen network switches, 20+ UPS's, and about 6
monitors with KVM switches that run 24/7/365 and only get powered off if
the backup generator runs out of gas :)
 
Carl G said:
Hi Yall
Why does so many people recomend leaveing your PC run 24/7 ?
It sure seams to me it would be like any other tool, when not in use shut
it off.
Seams like it would last a lot longer.
You surly don't leave your automobile running 24/7 just so you don't have
restart it when you want to use it.
Just don't don't make sense to me.
Maybe someone can try and educate me more.
Thanks

--

I have three computers on 24/7 in this house. I also have three more
computers that are powered down when not in use.

It's a matter of function and use. I don't leave my car running 24/7
because I only use it about three days a week. However, computers are like
cars in that they are under the most stress and strain at startup.

The three computers that are turned off when not in use are two laptops and
my daughter's computer, which are only used occassionally (not even daily).

Two of the "always on" computers are my Windows Server 2003 and my Windows
XP desktop. I literally "live" in front of my computer. I use it for work,
driving directions, research, shopping, movie/theatre previews and tickets,
education courses, traffic reports, weather, and a million other personal
uses that pop up at a moments notice from "what was the name of the band
that did 'Take on me'" to "What can I take for a sore tooth until I can see
a dentist".

I get up from my computer and head to bed around 11:00 PM. I wake up and
park myself in front of the computer around 5:00 AM. I tried powering it
down every night for a month. It made no noticeable difference in my
electricity bill and it was very hard on my eight year old Sony CPD-200SX
monitor, which has never recovered from that experiment. Now, I'm not
prepared to say that powering it up every morning precipitated its demise,
but I'm sure it was a contributing factor.

carl
 
James said:
Depending on the jurisdiction, it may be a legal requirement for the
equipment to have its own on/off switch.

Bah! Routers, cable and DSL modems don't have switches.
 
On 2/19/2005 12:31 PM On a whim, Carl G pounded out on the keyboard

If they really weren't designed to be shut off, why have the power
switch? They removed the 3½ floppy and yet the power switch remains.
Sure I'm joking a bit here but there is truth in it. If it truly wasn't
needed, they'd eliminate it and probably remove "Shutdown" from the menu.


It "truly" is needed. First of all, designing a machine like this
without a power switch would be a lack of engineering common sense
marvel. Second obviously is what will you do if you wanted to change a
component?

BTW, coming back to running 24/7, others have given some interesting
points. But if one prefers to switch off the machine (too much hum,
power saving, or just feeling better) then switch it off. In other
cases, e.g. running servers, it has to be left ON. So it depends on
quite a few factors, some personal some technological.

Sam.
[/QUOTE]

Er, that was the point. Changing a component doesn't require a power
switch though. I have many systems that power on by touching the keyboard.

And why did you snip the main question, especially when you refer back
to it.

--
Terry

***Reply Note***
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
 
On 2/19/2005 3:46 PM On a whim, Leythos pounded out on the keyboard
I have many workstations and servers in my home, two firewall appliances,
about 6 NAT routers, a dozen network switches, 20+ UPS's, and about 6
monitors with KVM switches that run 24/7/365 and only get powered off if
the backup generator runs out of gas :)

Doesn't sound like much of a home to me :-(

--
Terry

***Reply Note***
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
 
You got that right, maybe i should have stated i am a home user, me only on
my pc.
 
Apparently, _Terry_, on 19/02/05 23:32,typed:
It "truly" is needed. First of all, designing a machine like this
without a power switch would be a lack of engineering common sense
marvel. Second obviously is what will you do if you wanted to change a
component?

BTW, coming back to running 24/7, others have given some interesting
points. But if one prefers to switch off the machine (too much hum,
power saving, or just feeling better) then switch it off. In other
cases, e.g. running servers, it has to be left ON. So it depends on
quite a few factors, some personal some technological.

Sam.

Er, that was the point. Changing a component doesn't require a power
switch though. I have many systems that power on by touching the keyboard.[/QUOTE]

Hence the keyboard is the "Power ON" switch. But, to being with, how do
you switch the machine off?

Sam
 
Well guys, i asked and i got answers.
But i guess i will still shut mine off every night.
I am worse then anyone wrote though, I shut down and restart mine about half
dozen times a day.
Guess i wouldn't really have to do that, or shouldn't do that.
Thanks guys.
 
That's probably not relevant, because they are typically powered from
plugpacks.
--
 
The basic thinking is that the power surge as everything powers-up
(especially motors on various devices) has a detrimental effect on the life
of components at the board level, e.g. capacitors, diodes etc..
 
Yer a nerd, Leythos. Admit it, ya geek!

Yea, actually I run my business out of my home and have the team connect
in remotely from their locations. I also have three kids that are learning
networking and security, so I have a couple subnets setup for training -
I'm hoping that at least one of them joins the family business when they
get out of high-school.

Nerd might be right, I installed a couple line regulators for the AC power
for the server room, and am getting ready to install a true cross-over
switch for the generator.
 
The best thinking never just speculated that a power surge
exists on power up. In fact, the best thinking always begins
with the numbers and other well proven concepts of science.
Wild speculation is not found among best thinkers.

Manufacturer data sheets alone make it obvious that there is
failure due to power up. For example, a disk drive with an
unusually very high failure rate due to power cycling was
rated for only 40,000 cycles. That means power cycling seven
times every day for ...
15 years. Now you tell me: where is this destruction from
power up? Notice, this speculation about damage from power up
never comes with numbers. Why? No numbers means junk science
reasoning. Junk science reasoning is the source of a power up
surge. Wild speculation. Again, the damning fact. They
don't even provide numbers. They just know.

At 15 years, we say power cycling causes no damage. Who is
still using a disk drive at 15 and 25 years later? Ahhh, but
that would mean a numerical rather than a subjective answer.
Those who claim power up is destructive use only subjective
reasoning. Numbers are too messy?

We are not done yet. What is this component so *stressed*
by power up? They never say. Why? Again, they only
speculated. They did not determine what had failed AND why.
That speculation is where nonsense about power surges on power
up comes from. They don't know. They have only speculated.
Speculation alone is sufficient because they are computer
experts - or because they write articles about software - the
XP Operating System? That makes them computer literate?

And so we put this question to everyone who claims power up
is destructive. To what part? Asking this question because I
know the few if any responses will again make my point. They
don't know. They have just *heard* that power cycling is
destructive using the same logic that justified Saddam's
weapons of mass destruction.

Yes, power cycling is destructive. And then we apply the
numbers. For many components, that is SEVEN times every day
for ....
39 years. Go ahead. Tell me that power cycling is
destructive. My response. With numbers like that, then who
cares. Turn it off. Burning electricity is far more
destructive.

Save electricity. Power down at the end of the day, or
hibernate it, or put it to sleep. The only systems that need
be left on 24/7 are the servers and routers - and not for
reliability reasons.

BTW, what number determines the life expectancy of almost
all parts? Hours of operation. Read manufacturer data
sheets. Why? Most wear, destructive power cycling, etc
occurs during normal operation. How would one know? One
first gets numbers from manufacturer data sheets before
speculating. There is no power on surge. Hours of operation,
for example, causes major wear in disk drives. Myth purveyors
hope we will ignore that fact.
 

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