Yet another reason to uninstall Java.

L

Lester Horwinkle

Bob Adkins said:
As long as we are free to choose, we need not fear technology.
Click to expand...

I'm inclined to agree.

But humans have short memories. And change happens slowly. So, some of the
things that we accept today would have been disliked or even reviled by our
grandfathers.

Such as (on the softer side) ... prefabricated food (microwave dinners,
instant tea/coffe/soup, etc).

On the more problematic side ... replacing people in the workplace with
machines. If my grandfather were a young man today (instead of in 1920),
he'd be stuck in poverty. He was a dress maker ... which today only gets you
a minimum wage job ... and then NO job when your work gets off-shored to the
far east. I don't think he'd be happy about that.

So ...
As long as we are free to choose, we need not fear technology.
Click to expand...

Sure. But are we really free to choose?
 
L

Lester Horwinkle

I think you hit the nail on the head. A bunch of small changes are easier to
foist on the public than a single whammy. We won't know what hit us.

Fortunately, there's an alternative ...

I hope Linux-on-the-desktop matures enough in the next 2-3 years to make it
useful. It would be awfully tough to Palladium-ize a public product like
Linux.
 
J

JanC

John Corliss said:
the following:

"A complementary technology to the Java 2 Platform, Java Card
technology makes it easy to integrate security tokens into a complete
Java software solution."

Sounds to me like it *does* have something to "do with Java 'an
sich'". 80)>
Click to expand...

It's just a technology for (easily) doing secure identification from within
Java. If you don't like it, don't use Java programs that need it, but it's
nothing more than an advanced replacement for a password login or something
like that.
 
J

John Corliss

JanC said:
It's just a technology for (easily) doing secure identification from within
Java. If you don't like it, don't use Java programs that need it,
Click to expand...

My solution is to dump Java entirely and that is exactly what I've
done. My computer runs fine and does everything I need without Java.
Fu**em.
but it's nothing more than an advanced replacement for a password
login or something like that.
Click to expand...

That's what it is at this point maybe, but did you read the article
and what Jonathan Schwartz (Sun's executive vice president of
software) was saying? Quote:

"'You may see some carriers start creating relationships with PC
manufacturers, so PC manufacturers are shipping their PCs with a SIM
in them. The SIMs will be branded by the carriers,' Schwartz said when
discussing a Java branding campaign."

It seems obvious to me that this is a technology that can easily be
exploited by various government agencies, criminals, businesses, etc.
And let's not forget RedSherrif, another little Java jewel of privacy
raping:

http://www.inluminent.com/weblog/archives/2002/11/06/defeating_tracking_software_redsherrif/

(link may wrap)
 
J

John Corliss

No, what I actually said was, and I quote:

"*However, when fu**ing Microsoft thinks they can take control of my*
computer to further their own ends, that's when I dump their asses for
Linux and go on a campaign to promote that alternative OS."
John, every business in the world is in business to suit their own ends,
which is to make a profit. Yes, even you. :)
Click to expand...

So, in essence, "greed is good". I don't buy it. The end does not
always justify the means. There are limits and the consumer has rights
that *must* be respected. Remember, as a consumer *I* have the final word!
There are still 2 or 3 countries on Earth (that I can think of) that do not
allow private enterprise and profit, but I wouldn't want to live there.
Remember, profits are your friend. Without profits, there would be no goods
and services. Yargh. No beer, fast cars, cable TV, or Internet. Life
wouldn't be worth living. May as well just shoot me now. :(
Click to expand...

Why would you even insinuate that I'm incapable of understanding such
a basic concept, Bob? My original statement stands.
 
J

John Corliss

Lester said:
Palladium may turn out to be a boost for Linux on the desktop!
Much of the far east (except Japan) have already thumbed their noses at (a)
DVD/CD rights and (b) Microsoft, which (in Palladium) portrays itself as an
enforcer of media rights.
So the Asians may well lead the way toward Linux.
Let's hope.
Click to expand...

In fact, the governments of Korea, China and Japan plan to back a
collaboration on a version of that OS.
 
J

John Corliss

Lester said:
I think you hit the nail on the head. A bunch of small changes are easier to
foist on the public than a single whammy. We won't know what hit us.
Fortunately, there's an alternative ...
I hope Linux-on-the-desktop matures enough in the next 2-3 years to make it
useful. It would be awfully tough to Palladium-ize a public product like
Linux.
Click to expand...

However, don't forget that there will be a hardware component involved
in the "Trusted Computing Initiative" or whatever they're calling it now.
 
D

donutbandit

I hope Linux-on-the-desktop matures enough in the next 2-3 years to
make it useful. It would be awfully tough to Palladium-ize a public
product like Linux.
Click to expand...

You still run into the same problem. Many people own computers that won't
run Linux. You can sneer at them all you want, but these people own these
machines, and when they discover that Linux can't handle their hardware,
they will run back to M$.

You can say what you want about Windows, but it's a fact that there are
very few pieces of hardware that Windows can't install natively. If not,
there is a Windows driver available. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to
figure it out.

Linux needs to get it's (collective) head out of it's ass, stop being so
damned exclusive, and get people on writing drivers. It's not acceptable to
say "too bad, but you bought a machine with Winhardware. You can't run
Linux. Up yours!"

The simple fact is that millions of machines exist with Winhardware, run
Windows happily, and Linux will never be accepted until it can support most
of the machines out there.
 
J

Joachim Ziebs

Hi!
Linux needs to get it's (collective) head out of it's ass, stop
being so damned exclusive, and get people on writing drivers.
Click to expand...

People are writing drivers. However, manufacturers have to open their
specifications and fund those programmers.
Writing a driver is very expensive and you need first hand knowledge
of the hardware you are writing for. Unfortunately most hardware
companies neither develop Linux drivers of their own or lay open
their specs. So, Linux programmers have to rely on dirty hacks.
It's
not acceptable to say "too bad, but you bought a machine with
Winhardware. You can't run Linux. Up yours!"
Click to expand...

It is perfectly acceptable! You are the master of your money. You have
the choice to buy hardware that will run any OS, because this
hardware is available. If you decide otherwise, it is your fault and
not that of any other person.
Strange that this statement only comes from Windows users. No Mac user
ever complained that their machine won't run Windows.
As an aside, my built-in WinModem works with Linux.
The simple fact is that millions of machines exist with Winhardware,
run Windows happily, and Linux will never be accepted until it can
support most of the machines out there.
Click to expand...

Get a life. I have yet to see a PC (PC, not printer, modem, or other
external device) that does not run Linux. External devices are a
different matter, but you need to blame the customers and
manufacturers for that. One because they buy the cheapest and not
best hardware (chosing a Winmodem or GDI printer when real modems and
printers are available is pure greed/dumbness) the other because of
missing specs.

Greetings,

Joachim
 
R

Roger Johansson

Joachim Ziebs said:
You have
the choice to buy hardware that will run any OS, because this
hardware is available.
Click to expand...

Are there some lists of hardware components somewhere which are known to
work with Linux?
 
J

Joachim Ziebs

Hi Roger!

Roger said:
Are there some lists of hardware components somewhere which are
known to work with Linux?
Click to expand...

Sure.
For printers the best address is: www.linuxprinting.org
Then, every distribution has a list of its own. Suse maintains a good
list, as does Mandrake.
If you plan on using a Notebook: www.tuxmobil.de or "Linux on Laptops"
(google for url) will help you.

Greetings,

Joachim
 
B

Bob Adkins

I'm inclined to agree.

But humans have short memories. And change happens slowly. So, some of the
things that we accept today would have been disliked or even reviled by our
grandfathers.

Such as (on the softer side) ... prefabricated food (microwave dinners,
instant tea/coffe/soup, etc).
Click to expand...

AK! I refuse to eat that stuff. There's no reason to eat pre-fab food. It's
the food of lazy people and those who have no palate. We buy fresh meat and
veggies and cook our food. We do buy pre-baked bread, but sometimes make it
fresh. And scratch pizza can't be beat.
On the more problematic side ... replacing people in the workplace with
machines. If my grandfather were a young man today (instead of in 1920),
he'd be stuck in poverty. He was a dress maker ... which today only gets you
a minimum wage job ... and then NO job when your work gets off-shored to the
far east. I don't think he'd be happy about that.

So ...
Click to expand...

So, those machines opened up lots of other jobs because the high profit
margins and technology Machine repairmen, computer programmers, sales, etc.

My wife works in the health care industry. She is also a talented dress
maker, and used to make a few in her spare time as a hobby. Word got out,
and she had to quit. She could quit her job today and double her income
making dresses, but we don't want to turn our home upside-down.

There is always a good living to be earned for people that are willing to
work with their hands.
Sure. But are we really free to choose?
Click to expand...

Don't sell the American people short. We have a long history or rejecting
stifling laws, and throwing out law makers that wish to encroach on our
freedoms by creating a Nanny State.

Bob

Remove "kins" from address to reply.
 
B

Bob Adkins

"'You may see some carriers start creating relationships with PC
manufacturers, so PC manufacturers are shipping their PCs with a SIM
in them. The SIMs will be branded by the carriers,' Schwartz said when
discussing a Java branding campaign."
Click to expand...

When I build my computers in the future, I won't be putting a SIM in them.

Bob

Remove "kins" from address to reply.
 
B

Bob Adkins

So, in essence, "greed is good". I don't buy it. The end does not
always justify the means. There are limits and the consumer has rights
Click to expand...

Profit is not greed. Profit is money. They should not be confused.

Greed is doing misdeeds to enrich oneself. Making a profit is necessary to
every business on Earth. Making profit legally is not a misdeed.

If certain MS executives, for example were to break a law to enrich
themselves, the guilty executives should be prosecuted. Otherwise, they
should be left alone to make software and feed thousands of families that
depend on their jobs.

Another thing. MS can do no wrong. It's just an inanimate trademark. Gates
or that idiot Ballmer or their underlings can commit crimes (even without
Gate's knowledge), but not MS.
that *must* be respected. Remember, as a consumer *I* have the final word!
Click to expand...

You apparently have no confidence in the rest of us.

When we feel our freedom of privacy is being broached, we will no doubt
react the same way as you. Most of us reject software every day because we
have the final word, and will in the future.


Bob

Remove "kins" from address to reply.
 
B

Ben Cooper

jimpgh2002 said:
Okay, I'll uninstall it immediately, Mr. Paranoid.
Click to expand...

LOL. Yes, John has me so frightened I'm giving up computers. I'm going back
to scratching in mud using sticks.
Anyone know of any freeware for a clay tablet?
 
K

Klaatu

Don't sell the American people short. We have a long history or rejecting
stifling laws, and throwing out law makers that wish to encroach on our
freedoms by creating a Nanny State.
Click to expand...

I want to live with the American people in your head, because there's no
one like that around here. The Nanny State is alive and well, thanks to the
real American people. Out freedoms have been encroached on for the last 90
years and, thanks to the real (gutless) American people, continue to be.
 

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