XP updates - Validation Tool

[Guest]

Have a look at this thread:-

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/...1455&mid=062ffefb-f4d1-422e-a783-6aab80d31455

or
http://tinyurl.com/jnz2z

It would seem that there is a myriad of threads about this on the
microsoft.public.windowsupdate newsgroup.

The general concensus is that there is a problem with the update, and that
Microsoft are at fault, and as yet don't appear to acknowledge that fact (or
endeavour fix it).

One MVP, a Carey Frisch, suggests that we who all THINK we have a legitimate
version of XP are disillusioned. I took particular exception to this
premise...

Microsoft, please fix it...


Chris

 

[Rodney]

My real agenda? To stop you from top posting? I really don't know what
you're talking about, but whatever reason you've used to run away it
doesn't change the fact that Microsoft's Windows Update often causes
problems with PCs because it doesn't work properly.

Steve Frank

I think perhaps by "agenda" he is referring to the 'tone' of your post
which resembles the language that trolls use. Note: I'm not saying you
were trolling, just that your language was similar.

I think it is safe to say that, by far, the bulk of the problems that
people have had with windows update have been related to a system
mis-configuration or/and virus/spyware/worm/trojan effects when trying to
update. Systems which are properly configured and clean rarely have
troubles when updating. Now, I don't work for MS or even think WindowsXP
is the best operating system currently on the planet but I have to be fair
and say that most users did not do security updates in the days before the
option to have them automatically existed and thus even more systems were
exploited and compromised in those days. It isn't a perfect solution and
the number of times people have tried to 'update', thinking it would fix
some problem they were having, when the problem was unrelated to the
update is something that appears in the text of many postings for help.

By the way, top posting is considered the norm in MS groups, that is
probably part of the reason why OE defaults to that format. I personally
prefer this chronological style but others do not.

Rodney

 

[jmr1954x]

My perception of this is that there are more than one issue. Last year,
Microsoft included WGA as a necessary part of access to Windows updates
- except that security updates can still be downloaded using the
automatic update facility. The reason for that is that it is feared
that there are so many machines connected to the Internet with pirated
XP on them, that if security updates are denied to them, there would be
a resulting massive and uncontrollable proliferation of viruses etc.
which would seriously affect everyone else.

(Also, some economists say that but for the widespread availability of
pirated software, usage of PC's and the Internet would be a fraction of
what it actually is, and that the market for genuine products would
fall and not rise. Funny old world isn't it?)

Within a short space of time, a JavaScript hack appeared, but then
users discovered that they could turn off the installed WGA using the
add-on manager, without having to mess about with hacks.

In the past few days, Microsoft have addressed the issue. The old
version of WGA is no longer enough. You have to have the updated
version installed, and you cannot disable it via the add-on manager.
However, that has produced a problem. Due to "issues", this has caused
problems with a number of people with genuine copies of Windows not
being able to properly install the updated WGA. Hence they experience
the problem such that when they use the on-line validator, it says OK,
but they have the problem installing the downloaded validator.

That problem is being, or has been fixed.

As regards people with unauthorised copies of Windows XP, they can
continue to use the automatic update to keep security patches updated,
but that is it - at the moment. This is not helped by the numerous
people that are posting answers to these queries with old hacks that do
not work any more.

If users turn off WGA using the "old" JavaScript hack, they get an
alert message saying that WGA is turned off, and which does not allow
them to proceed any further.

However, alert messages themselves are JavaScripted, and if you can
turn off WGA with a JavaScript hack, then I imagine that you can also
by-pass the alert message with a Javascript disable instruction that
tells the script to continue. I imagine that even as I write this,
hackers are working on it - that is if they haven't already got a
working hack on the net.

The problem is that Microsoft are trying to do the verification on the
local machine using software and data that is downloaded, and where the
blocking is done at local machine level.

This is yet another case of trying to retro-fit a drm system to
something which was not designed for it to start with, and ending up
with "issues".

 

[Steve Frank]

I think perhaps by "agenda" he is referring to the 'tone' of your post
which resembles the language that trolls use. Note: I'm not saying you
were trolling, just that your language was similar.

I think it is safe to say that, by far, the bulk of the problems that
people have had with windows update have been related to a system
mis-configuration or/and virus/spyware/worm/trojan effects when
trying to update. Systems which are properly configured and clean
rarely have troubles when updating. Now, I don't work for MS or even
think WindowsXP is the best operating system currently on the planet
but I have to be fair and say that most users did not do security
updates in the days before the option to have them automatically
existed and thus even more systems were exploited and compromised in
those days. It isn't a perfect solution and the number of times
people have tried to 'update', thinking it would fix some problem
they were having, when the problem was unrelated to the update is
something that appears in the text of many postings for help.

By the way, top posting is considered the norm in MS groups, that is
probably part of the reason why OE defaults to that format. I
personally prefer this chronological style but others do not.

Rodney

I don't think the tone of my post was remotely trollish. Most troll posts
are simply looking for a response by making some ridiculous claim or
statement. If my response was trollish, you aint seen nothin'. I don't
think that was the issue anyway. I plead guilty to offense #3 - downloading
from a filesharing service. I think after that Ted came to envision me with
an eyepatch and a hook for a hand (maybe even a peg leg too). Ted probably
doesn't realize that P2P is the best way to get many legal downloads, such
as linux distributions.

As far as the bulk of problems with windows update being due to a system
mis-configuration or/and virus/spyware/worm/trojan , that may be so.
However, how is the average joe supposed to know if he has that problem? If
by a clean system you mean only running MS software, that's highly unlikely
and unuseful. Not to mention that the gaping security holes left in
Windows, and IE particularly are responsible for much of the spyware,
malware, and viruses being on many computers in the first place. So, I
guess the real problem is that people are actually using their computers.

A case in point would be the reason why I'm here. I did a fresh install of
Win XP on a PC which had run it before without the current problem. I had
to do a clean install because the machine was loaded with spyware and adware
and what ever else. New hard drive, and a clean install. Applied SP2, and
all critical updates. Now the machine sees USB Mass storage devices, but
cannot install the drivers (which XP is supposed to have). I have tested a
half dozen of these devices(MP3 players, Thumb drives, Flash memory readers,
and external hard drives). None of the devices need a driver for XP or
2000, yet this install of XP doesn't have the driver available and is
looking for one. I hadn't done anything with the machine yet other than run
windows update. Any idea how I misconfigured it with MS software?

I manage a small LAN (around 50 users) and Windows update fails as often as
it works. I have to manually install many patches. 80% of my machines have
no access to the internet (excluding access to Windows Update, when I
authorize it). How do you suppose they are getting misconfigured / infected
causing Windows update to fail?

The reason most people didn't do security updates is because they didn't
know Windows update existed or they only had dial up and downloading MB
after MB of patches is a little daunting at 56kbps. People who can actually
find usenet and make a relevant post in the appropriate group is miniscule.
I don't know what % of Windows users that might represent, but I'm guessing
it's something less than 1.

By the way, top posting is considered the norm in MS groups, that is
probably part of the reason why OE defaults to that format. I
personally prefer this chronological style but others do not.

Leave it to MS to bugger another internet standard.

Steve Frank

 

[news.zen.co.uk]

My perception of this is that there are more than one issue. Last year,
Microsoft included WGA as a necessary part of access to Windows updates
- except that security updates can still be downloaded using the
automatic update facility. The reason for that is that it is feared
that there are so many machines connected to the Internet with pirated
XP on them, that if security updates are denied to them, there would be
a resulting massive and uncontrollable proliferation of viruses etc.
which would seriously affect everyone else.

(Also, some economists say that but for the widespread availability of
pirated software, usage of PC's and the Internet would be a fraction of
what it actually is, and that the market for genuine products would
fall and not rise. Funny old world isn't it?)

Within a short space of time, a JavaScript hack appeared, but then
users discovered that they could turn off the installed WGA using the
add-on manager, without having to mess about with hacks.

In the past few days, Microsoft have addressed the issue. The old
version of WGA is no longer enough. You have to have the updated
version installed, and you cannot disable it via the add-on manager.
However, that has produced a problem. Due to "issues", this has caused
problems with a number of people with genuine copies of Windows not
being able to properly install the updated WGA. Hence they experience
the problem such that when they use the on-line validator, it says OK,
but they have the problem installing the downloaded validator.

That problem is being, or has been fixed.

As regards people with unauthorised copies of Windows XP, they can
continue to use the automatic update to keep security patches updated,
but that is it - at the moment. This is not helped by the numerous
people that are posting answers to these queries with old hacks that do
not work any more.

If users turn off WGA using the "old" JavaScript hack, they get an
alert message saying that WGA is turned off, and which does not allow
them to proceed any further.

However, alert messages themselves are JavaScripted, and if you can
turn off WGA with a JavaScript hack, then I imagine that you can also
by-pass the alert message with a Javascript disable instruction that
tells the script to continue. I imagine that even as I write this,
hackers are working on it - that is if they haven't already got a
working hack on the net.

The problem is that Microsoft are trying to do the verification on the
local machine using software and data that is downloaded, and where the
blocking is done at local machine level.

This is yet another case of trying to retro-fit a drm system to
something which was not designed for it to start with, and ending up
with "issues".

Just tryed to see if I needed any updates and keep getting this error ......
Validation incomplete: Probuct Key Inaccessible
The validation process could not be completed because the validation control
is unable to read the product key stored on this computer. We are unable to
verify whether your copy of Windows is genuine.

 

[jmr1954x]

The "Validation incomplete: Product Key Inaccessible" is an issue that
Microsoft are working on, and which is affecting many genuine Windows
installations. For some time, cynics have been prediciting that one day
MS would release a download that "self jams" and for which a
downloadable fix is difficult to develop. I wonder whether this is it?

As regards working around the WGA. Even if the latest (4th March)
version of WGA is installed and working properly, it is a very simple
matter to circumvent it.

Which gets back to the problem that arises when you try and retro-fit
DRM to something that was not designed for it at the outset. You end up
where legitimate users are plagued with problems, whilst those with
pirated copies carry on unhindered.

 

[roydavis]

I am on the phone with MSFT right now trying to deal with this. What a
waste of my time. Instead of working on my project, I screwing around
with this crap, all so msft and Billy G can get a few billion more $$
in the bank. How totally suboptimal.

At the end of the call I was basically told they would only give
support for this issue via email.

Lame.