Window Genuine Notification when its a new computer

[Justin]

Fact is, however, that it is none of MS' business.

Sure it is. Don't like it? Don't use Windows.

It's so simple it's mind boggling!

False. WGA does not affect thieves one iota.

Sure it does! Until they find and use the exploit. Until then Vista won't
fully work.

More than that, my friend. The rate is more like 50%.

BS! You give us a link that shows us 50% of Vista users are told they are
not genuine.

Yes, they can. It's called the kill switch and will render your computer
useless except to go online to pay MS and access to your data for only
three days.

Are you reading what you type? Limited functionality is not a kill switch.

Yawn. WGA/N, IPP, WPA, etc. do NOTHING to stop piracy and ONLY
inconvenience the paying customer.

Oh really? Did you miss the part about my being PAID to make people legal?
Obviously your use of the term NOTHING is completely null and void.

As for the rest of what I did not respond to, I wont go around in circles
with you. It's already been covered.

You continue to believe that WGA does not come with Vista yet you can't
answer a simple question:

Fact:

1. Bring your computer home and turn it on
2. Never hook it up to the internet
3. Your machine is activated and recognized as genuine
4. Some how get a NVIDIA driver on your machine and install that driver
5. BAM! You are no longer genuine

Now, explain to us how WGA got on that machine if it's some extra install
from MS?


Actually, you agreed I was right but then continue to say I'm wrong.

"I have to assume your premise is correct, that WGA comes bundled with
Vista. Last I heard, it's called ISS or something like that."

Which is it?

 

[Justin]

That's a joke right? Ok, are you ready?

1. Did you read the title?
For Vista, WGA gets tougher

Obviously, as slang (since MS changed the name) we're calling it WGA. You
know damn good and well what we're talking about. So it's SPP and not ISS
as you stated earlier.

2. Any ""problem"" with "WGA - sorry, SPP" is going to be one of two things.
Piracy or hardware/software change.

Now check out this part of your so called quote:

"and reported those problems to Microsoft's public forums"

That 42% is from public forums only!

Please explain to us how that 42% includes everyone?

That 42% tells us NOTHING.

That would be like saying 90% of Vista users have problems with Vista
because 90% of this NG has problems with Vista.




WGA is NOT a part of Vista (it's called SPP) and, yes, there is a kill
switch. Read this and weep:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=148

See http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=142 where it says:

According to our analysis, 42% of the people who experienced problems
with WGA and reported those problems to Microsoft's public forums during
that period were actually running Genuine Microsoft WAccording to our
analysis, 42% of the people who experienced problems with WGA and
reported those problems to Microsoft's public forums during that period
were actually running Genuine Microsoft Windows.That's not just our
opinion, either. Those statistics were reported by the Redmond-approved
Microsoft Genuine Advantage Diagnostic utility.

Oops. 42% is a lot, Justin.

Alias

 

[Justin]

False. By Microsoft's own admission over 40% of WGAs not genuine reports
are false. and this is only from the records of those customers who call
in to get it straightened out. Thieves don't call in. only Windows Genuine
Customers.

Your numbers do not tell us anything important to the topic. I said a small
% of PEOPLE. Not a small % of what is reported.

For example. Take the number of licenses that have been sold. Now take
your 40%+ and tell us HOW MANY PEOPLE that is. You can't.

To go further.

Let's just be amusing and say 100 people have called in with this problem.
So 40 people installed an NVIDIA driver and are false positives. The other
60 people are....what? Illegal for a good reason? I thought pirates didn't
call in?

However, I'm glad we went over this. It leads me to something else I've
been wondering. How many people in this NG have posted about not being
genuine and called MS to straighten it out only to be told NO and get hung
up on? Well, now we know they are full of crap and those are 60 pirates
calling in.

 

[DanS]

Let's see...
"Thieves don't call in"
Yet, 60% of those who did call in were positively not genuine MS
products.

That doesn't make them theives !!!

All most likely victims, either unknowingly buying counterfeit CDs from
EBay, or of unscrupulous 'wipe it and reinstall' PC 'repair' places whom
reinstall bogus Windows because the user didn't bring in their windows CD,
or whatever else.

So now...Let's see...

"Victims (unknowingly) do call in"

Yet 40% of thos who did call in were positively Genuine MS products.

(Or is it 40% couldn't be verified as being positively Genuine MS products,
so MS gave them the benefit of the doubt ?! Probably not.)

If your numbers are correct, 40% failure rate is appauling.

 

[Stephan Rose]

Fair enough. It's not going to be for everyone. However, this usually
makes people wonder about your (not you specifically but people that think
like this) intentions. I don't care if MS downloaded the entire WMI
library
of your computer. Who cares? Nothing about that data is personal. They
can find out the same info by looking up your model. There is nothing
secret about your hardware.

It always comes down to the same two things:

1. WGA only affects thieves.
2. Unfortunately a small percentage of people are inconvenienced with a
PHONE CALL.

Now this I have to majorly disagree on.

WGA does *not* affect thieves. Thieves know they copy is not legal. They
knowingly run a copy that is not legal knowing full well they may have the
occasional bump. If they do encounter an issue, they can get around it and
circumvent it.

Bottom line, they are not significantly affected by WGA.

The so called "small percentage" of people however is significantly
affected. They are wondering why the computer they just spend over a
thousand dollars on all of a sudden tells them they are a thief. They don't
know what WGA even is. They simply want to use their computer and go about
their daily life.

They don't *WANT* to make a phone call...most of them will not even
understand, and rightfully so, why they should even have to do so! They
paid their money!

The ONLY people inconvenienced by this are the paying customers who get hit
with the problems.

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

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[Mark]

Maybe if you toned it down just one notch, someone might desire to read your
rantings. Until then:

I fail to see a point to that?

1. "doesn't kill it"
2. "but it's arguably a near-death experience" - so pick up the phone!

Legitimate customers should not have to suffer this experience. I don't care
if MS has kill switches, cripplers, etc. My software is 100% legit. So, if
it were to suddenly tell me it was not legit AND I had an OEM version
installed, I'd be p-ssed! I don't care if it is just one phone call away

If MS wants to enforce under these measures, then it needs to work
exceptionally well!

I used my Ultimate DVD to reload a Dell laptop that came with Home Premium
and used their key (selected home premium). That killed it! We called
Dell and BAM! Fixed. What's the problem?

I also shouldn't have to reload my OS everytime a driver ends up crippling
my OS due to "genuine" misidentification.

Maybe it's the fact that I never went to bed last night but I didn't see
anywhere in that article where it mentioned HALF of anything. I even
searched for the word half???

Try following the story line... links are involved.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=142
http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowForum.aspx?ForumID=442&SiteID=25
The actual number is 42%, but I understand that is 42% of a group that feels
they are justified to complain and represents a mere few THOUSAND users
(based on the forum entries, not the article.) Of these same users, 39% were
confirmed pirates (which I find amazing they called or wrote in for help.)

The problem is, it is a hassle. It's not just a phone call. And, if you're
OEM, you could simply be screwed.
How many legitimate customers are simply paying Microsoft an extra $149
because it's easier than going through the hassle of working out the
problem? If the answer is more than zero, it's too many.

Obviously, if a driver install can kill Vista then there's a major bug in
the system. It wont go untouched.

Yep, eventually it all gets ironed out at our expense.

 

[Stephan Rose]

Sure it is. Don't like it? Don't use Windows.

It's so simple it's mind boggling!



Sure it does! Until they find and use the exploit. Until then Vista
won't fully work.

Well that's already happened. I could go right now and get a fully working,
fully functional non-legal copy of Vista right this very instant...

Thieves aren't inconvenienced one bit.

And even *if* they run into a problem, they run into said problem knowingly
and know what is going on and why.

That is a big difference to the paying customer who has no idea why Windows
is telling him that he has to call India.

Are you reading what you type? Limited functionality is not a kill
switch.

Sure it is. If i go into my office in the morning, turn on my computer...and
all of a sudden it blieves it is no longer genuine and goes into limited
functionality...and I have a project I need to finish before noon...it's a
kill switch as now I have a severe problem.

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

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[Mark]

You read something I wasn't implying.
I think WGA is a horrendous application full of problems. (See other posts.)

I was trying to point out that some thieves DO call in.
I understand there are victims in the fray. (Again, see other posts.)

 

[Mark]

Thank you.
My point exactly.

Now this I have to majorly disagree on.

WGA does *not* affect thieves. Thieves know they copy is not legal. They
knowingly run a copy that is not legal knowing full well they may have the
occasional bump. If they do encounter an issue, they can get around it and
circumvent it.

Bottom line, they are not significantly affected by WGA.

The so called "small percentage" of people however is significantly
affected. They are wondering why the computer they just spend over a
thousand dollars on all of a sudden tells them they are a thief. They
don't
know what WGA even is. They simply want to use their computer and go about
their daily life.

They don't *WANT* to make a phone call...most of them will not even
understand, and rightfully so, why they should even have to do so! They
paid their money!

The ONLY people inconvenienced by this are the paying customers who get
hit
with the problems.

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

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[Justin]

That doesn't make them theives !!!

All most likely victims, either unknowingly buying counterfeit CDs from

Very true. Thanks for extending into that area of concern. Let's call them
pirate wannbees

Yes, that was a joke

If your numbers are correct, 40% failure rate is appauling.

Ugh, I'm going to tread lightly here since I just got slammed by another
poster for "ASKING" how he came to his opinion. So I'm going to make a note
here (of which I shouldn't have to in a civilized conversation ) that I
am NOT disrespecting your opinion.

With that said, why do you find this appalling? Do you find the actual
ratio between the false and true positives appalling? Or do you find the
NUMBER of people this is happening to appalling? I ask because with that %
we can not determine the amount of people. So either case seems moot.

 

[Richard Urban]

Please note the date of that article (Oct. 4, 2006). The operating system
wasn't even RTM when the article went onto the web.

Find one that is current with some specs and it may be a bit more relevant.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User

 

[Richard Urban]

Where did the 50% figure come from?

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User

 

[Justin]

Maybe if you toned it down just one notch, someone might desire to read
your rantings. Until then:

Oh, I'm sorry, am I using to many CAPS for you? Why? Because I stated "I
fail to see a point to that?"

Legitimate customers should not have to suffer this experience. I don't
care if MS has kill switches, cripplers, etc. My software is 100% legit.
So, if it were to suddenly tell me it was not legit AND I had an OEM
version installed, I'd be p-ssed! I don't care if it is just one phone
call away

Absolutely! They certainly should not. When I buy an Xbox or PS3 I should
NOT be made to suffer for an over heating unit! But guess what? They all
get FIXED. Like I already said, the false positives are obviously a problem
and it's being worked on just like any other consumer product problem.

If you can't handle bugs then how do you handle ANY software application?

If MS wants to enforce under these measures, then it needs to work
exceptionally well!

If MS wants to work under these measures then they better fix any and all
problems that arise. How can you demand a perfect product? Nothing is
perfect.

I also shouldn't have to reload my OS everytime a driver ends up crippling
my OS due to "genuine" misidentification.

Again, absolutely! I'm sure a fix will be out soon enough. If not, THEN
you really have something to yell about. If it took 6 months to turn around
the 360's THEN you'd hear some yelling.

Try following the story line... links are involved.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=142

Thanks for the help, I found it earlier. That 42% doesn't tell us squat.

(based on the forum entries, not the article.) Of these same users, 39%
were confirmed pirates (which I find amazing they called or wrote in for
help.)

As mentioned earlier, that's not 100% true. There are people that got duped
into buying an illegal copy.

It's not just a phone call. And, if you're

Been there, done that, yes it is. Are there some vendors that have poor
customer service and THEY make it a hassle? I'm sure there is. Guess that?
The CUSTOMER chooses the vendor.

Yep, eventually it all gets ironed out at our expense.

Our who? Have you had to call? "Our" certainly better not include "vista
users" in general.

We still don't have a real number of users that have this problem.

 

[Alias]

Sure it is. Don't like it? Don't use Windows.

My way or the highway, eh? Why do you think I'm learning Linux?

It's so simple it's mind boggling!

Whether it's complicated or simple is besides the point.

Sure it does! Until they find and use the exploit. Until then Vista
won't fully work.

Pirated versions already come with the crack.

BS! You give us a link that shows us 50% of Vista users are told they
are not genuine.

Sorry, it's *only* 42%. My bad.

Are you reading what you type? Limited functionality is not a kill
switch.

If I have some work due in one hour it most certainly is!

Oh really? Did you miss the part about my being PAID to make people
legal? Obviously your use of the term NOTHING is completely null and void.

That doesn't stop the pirates either.

As for the rest of what I did not respond to, I wont go around in
circles with you. It's already been covered.

Translation: Justin can't come up with a credible argument.

You continue to believe that WGA does not come with Vista yet you can't
answer a simple question:

Fact:

1. Bring your computer home and turn it on
2. Never hook it up to the internet
3. Your machine is activated and recognized as genuine
4. Some how get a NVIDIA driver on your machine and install that driver
5. BAM! You are no longer genuine

And you like that?

Now, explain to us how WGA got on that machine if it's some extra install
from MS?

It's called SPP, of course!

Actually, you agreed I was right but then continue to say I'm wrong.

"I have to assume your premise is correct, that WGA comes bundled with
Vista. Last I heard, it's called ISS or something like that."

Which is it?

Neither, it's called SPP, my mistake.

Alias

 

[Justin]

Well that's already happened. I could go right now and get a fully
working,
fully functional non-legal copy of Vista right this very instant...

Yup. Everyone say, "Thank you Parad0x!"

Thieves aren't inconvenienced one bit.

For the most part yes. However, don't assume everyone that tries to copy
Vista is resourceful enough to find what they need to continue.

And even *if* they run into a problem, they run into said problem
knowingly
and know what is going on and why.

That is a big difference to the paying customer who has no idea why
Windows
is telling him that he has to call India.

True, they are not thief's.

Sure it is. If i go into my office in the morning, turn on my
computer...and
all of a sudden it blieves it is no longer genuine and goes into limited
functionality...and I have a project I need to finish before noon...it's a
kill switch as now I have a severe problem.

Call your support. Maybe I just got lucky with Dell however I was on the
phone for 10 minutes max!

In your case, you can get Vista working 100% in minutes As if...

 

[Alias]

That's a joke right? Ok, are you ready?

1. Did you read the title?
For Vista, WGA gets tougher

Obviously, as slang (since MS changed the name) we're calling it WGA.
You know damn good and well what we're talking about. So it's SPP and
not ISS as you stated earlier.

Yeah, MS changes names so many times, it's hard to keep up.

2. Any ""problem"" with "WGA - sorry, SPP" is going to be one of two
things. Piracy or hardware/software change.

Hardware/software change? That's not too groovy, Justin.

Now check out this part of your so called quote:

"and reported those problems to Microsoft's public forums"

That 42% is from public forums only!

Please explain to us how that 42% includes everyone?

That 42% tells us NOTHING.

That would be like saying 90% of Vista users have problems with Vista
because 90% of this NG has problems with Vista.

More than one is too many.

Alias

 

[Mark]

Another MVP without a clue...

Did you bother to follow the links within the article?
You would have found that the Microsoft Genuine Advantage Forum has plenty
of posts from 'victims" of this wonderful anit-piracy product. Several of
them were even posted TODAY. Of course, they are all victims. The software
is 100% fool-proof, just install an Nvidia driver and watch.

Yes, the article was written in 2006, at about the same time the forum
thread was started. What's been fixed since then? According to the Official
MS Forum, nothing.

 

[Justin]

Now this I have to majorly disagree on.

WGA does *not* affect thieves. Thieves know they copy is not legal. They
knowingly run a copy that is not legal knowing full well they may have the
occasional bump. If they do encounter an issue, they can get around it and
circumvent it.

As mentioned before, not ALL are that intuitive.

Bottom line, they are not significantly affected by WGA.

This is a much more correct way of putting it

The so called "small percentage" of people however is significantly
affected. They are wondering why the computer they just spend over a
thousand dollars on all of a sudden tells them they are a thief.

Hold on!

1. It does not tell them that. It suggests they were a victim of piracy.
2. Call support! As I mentioned with the 360 and PS3, I wondered why all of
a sudden I was staring at a blank screen! Many units were sent back. They
fixed it. Does that make them a bad product? No. This is a consumer
product people. There are going to be production problems.

Why do people expect perfection from software? Software has NEVER been
perfect.

They don't
know what WGA even is. They simply want to use their computer and go about
their daily life.

Right, when your toy breaks you call for repair.

They don't *WANT* to make a phone call...most of them will not even
understand, and rightfully so, why they should even have to do so! They
paid their money!

Oh bull! ;p ;p ;p When you buy a toy and it breaks you get it fixed.
People aren’t this stupid. When your new car breaks you take it back to the
dealer.

The ONLY people inconvenienced by this are the paying customers who get
hit
with the problems.

Ok, so sue everyone you know. I can't begin to tell you how many consumer
products I've had problems with. MANY MORE problems then this.

 

[Stephan Rose]

For the most part yes. However, don't assume everyone that tries to copy
Vista is resourceful enough to find what they need to continue.

True but the general majority of people that *knowingly* run illegal copies
however are resourceful enough.

I'm not referring to people here who got scammed on EBay. They are not
theives, they are simply clueless. =)

True, they are not thief's.


Call your support. Maybe I just got lucky with Dell however I was on the
phone for 10 minutes max!

Things like that I do not have the time for and would be the last thing I'd
ever want to worry about.

In your case, you can get Vista working 100% in minutes As if...

I just get Ubuntu working 100% and live happily ever after. =)

It's running on my laptop too now, quite nicely!


--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

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[Justin]

There's a group of unidentified MS PUBLIC FORUMS where ~50% of the people
that had WGA issues where false positive.

Ultimately that # tells us nothing about the amount of people.