Which XP to use

[cnic]

I had to disable it or every time I turned the computer on I was met with a
warning that the startup had been changed (msconfig). There wasn't any
place to turn that off without disabling the UAC. Once it was disabled, the
same window that comes up in XP shows on the first bootup after changes have
been made and allows you to not show the message again. I am the only
person who uses this computer so there is very little risk of someone else
messing with something.
Also, in order for some of my programs to update, the UAC had to be turned
off. Otherwise, the updated files would not go into the "mirrored" program
files to run. I installed several updates without it turned off, but with
administrative privileges but they would never show up on my program
information. The original version was all that was recognized. Once I
turned off the UAC, I re-installed the updates and the version changed in
the program like it should. Also, the "protected mode" of my IE would not
work unless the UAC is off. On my IE, at the bottom of the screen in the
taskbar, it says, "Protected Mode: On or Off" one of the two. No matter
what I did, the protected mode would not show as "on" until the UAC was
disabled. I also couldn't open anything but a Microsoft program without
being told that an "unidentified program was trying to access my computer."
These are perfectly safe programs I have used for years and I checked with
the publishers before I installed them to make sure they were compatible
with Vista. They assured me they were. The programs work just fine in the
Vista, but a security shield sits on top of the icons all the time to warn
me that they are a risk to my computer. However with the UAC off, I don't
get the annoying message anymore.

I was instructed to turn off the UAC by the technical support at HP. They
said it was the only way to make these changes and keep any of this from
happening.

 

[Rock]

I had to disable it or every time I turned the computer on I was met with a
warning that the startup had been changed (msconfig). There wasn't any
place to turn that off without disabling the UAC. Once it was disabled,
the same window that comes up in XP shows on the first bootup after changes
have been made and allows you to not show the message again. I am the only
person who uses this computer so there is very little risk of someone else
messing with something.

This is easy to take care of. The principle is that any program that runs
at startup that wants admin privileges will be blocked until permission is
given for it. That is to give you control over what runs. When changes are
made with msconfig, the next time the system is started msconfig attempts to
alert you that changes were made. But msconfig needs admin privileges to
run so it get's blocked.

So what you do is click on the icon in the notification area to show the
blocked programs and hold the mouse over the choice to run blocked programs.
The flyout menu will display the list of blocked programs. In this case it
will have System Configuration Utility. Clicking on will trigger the UAC
prompt. Give credentials or elevate and msconfig runs. It will then pop up
a dialog box that changes were made (just as in XP). Tick the box to tell
it not to alert you again. The box goes away, and assuming you don't make
any more changes through msconfig, the next time you restart, it won't run.
So the only time this pops up in when you have made changes. Not a big
deal.

The point is though, that I want to be alerted that something is running at
startup asking for admin privileges. Vista doesn't care what the program
does, it only cares about your intention and that intention cannot be
ascertained beforehand. In this instance it's an easy thing to deal with.

Also, in order for some of my programs to update, the UAC had to be turned
off. Otherwise, the updated files would not go into the "mirrored"
program files to run. I installed several updates without it turned off,
but with administrative privileges but they would never show up on my
program information. The original version was all that was recognized.
Once I turned off the UAC, I re-installed the updates and the version
changed in the program like it should.

I'm not sure I understand all this, but this tells me the programs are not
coded properly. I have never had a problem with apps not updating.
Sometimes they want to stick an utility in at startup to check for updates
each time, which except for an AV program is really no needed, so I remove
those, but I have never had a program not update properly. Of course it can
depend on the app so I'm not saying it wasn't a problem for you, it's just
that it shouldn't have been and doesn't have to be.

Also, the "protected mode" of my IE would not work unless the UAC is off.
On my IE, at the bottom of the screen in the taskbar, it says, "Protected
Mode: On or Off" one of the two. No matter what I did, the protected
mode would not show as "on" until the UAC was disabled.

That is a significant problem and shows there is something messed up in the
image set down by HP or horked by some program that was installed with it or
something you installed or a malware infection. Running IE7 in other than
protected mode looses much of the security. And additionally if UAC is off
then protected mode is off. IE7 can't run in protected mode if UAC is
disabled, so IE7 showing protected mode on when UAC is disabled indicates
something is seriously wrong with the installation.

I also couldn't open anything but a Microsoft program without being told
that an "unidentified program was trying to access my computer." These are
perfectly safe programs I have used for years and I checked with the
publishers before I installed them to make sure they were compatible with
Vista. They assured me they were.

So did they have an explanation for why this was happening if it was
compatible with Vista? Sorry I don't buy that explanation from the software
folks. Or there was a problem with the underlying Vista installation to
begin with, which I am thinking is part of the reason, or both.

The programs work just fine in the Vista, but a security shield sits on
top of the icons all the time to warn me that they are a risk to my
computer. However with the UAC off, I don't get the annoying message
anymore.

The securty shield is an indication that the OS thinks that program needs
elevation to run. When this happens I would ask, why does that program need
elevated privileges?

Running without UAC might help that issue but it opens the system up to any
malware that wants to run with admin privileges.

I was instructed to turn off the UAC by the technical support at HP. They
said it was the only way to make these changes and keep any of this from
happening.

That advice shows how messed up they are. If the OEM provides an
installation where the only way they can get things to work is to disable
UAC, or their advice to address other issues is to turn off UAC, that's
ridiculous.

There were some serious problems with that installation. Unfortunately it
would be very hard to sort that out by starting with a fully packed sytem
and removing layers (ie all your 3rd party software installed to start
with).

As I said in a previous post the way I would approach this is start with a
clean install of the HP image, then strip the installation to it's bare
minimum removing all the additional garbage put on by HP. You should be
able to get it to a condition where things work well, and IE7 can operate in
protected mode with UAC on. If you can't then the issue is with the image
HP set up, their hardware and their drivers.

If it is running well then Image that with Acronis True image so you have a
base to start with, then start adding one program at at time.

It's so much easier if you have an installation DVD and build the system
from there. I really dislike these OEM installs, and pesonally I dont'
waste time with them. I prefer getting a retail copy of the OS, and blow
away the OEM install, and build on that.

Do a dual boot with XP so you can keep things running as fine tune the Vista
system.

I can see why you were so frustrated, and you got a typical gargabe response
from HP tech support. Sorry it's been so messy for you.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

I had to disable it or every time I turned the computer on I was met
with a warning that the startup had been changed (msconfig).

Remember, Msconfig was designed to be a troubleshooting tool, not a
"startup configurer." Use MSConfig to determine the location of the
command that is attempting to start the program, and remove it from
there. To cease the selective startup notifications, either return your
settings to the way they were, or permanently remove the undesirable
programs from your startup configuration.

In most cases, with "well-mannered" applications, it's usually as
simple as opening the undesired program and deselecting the option to
"display icon in the system tray" or to "start when Windows starts."

Additionally, Look in the C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start
Menu\Programs\Start Up and C:\Documents and Settings\username\Start
Menu\Programs\Start Up folders, and in the system registry, primarily in
the HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run and
HKCU\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run keys.

There
wasn't any place to turn that off without disabling the UAC. Once it
was disabled, the same window that comes up in XP shows on the first
bootup after changes have been made and allows you to not show the
message again. I am the only person who uses this computer so there is
very little risk of someone else messing with something.
Also, in order for some of my programs to update, the UAC had to be
turned off. Otherwise, the updated files would not go into the
"mirrored" program files to run. I installed several updates without it
turned off, but with administrative privileges but they would never show
up on my program information. The original version was all that was
recognized. Once I turned off the UAC, I re-installed the updates and
the version changed in the program like it should. Also, the "protected
mode" of my IE would not work unless the UAC is off. On my IE, at the
bottom of the screen in the taskbar, it says, "Protected Mode: On or
Off" one of the two. No matter what I did, the protected mode would
not show as "on" until the UAC was disabled.

Haven't encountered that issue, yet.

I also couldn't open
anything but a Microsoft program without being told that an
"unidentified program was trying to access my computer." These are
perfectly safe programs I have used for years and I checked with the
publishers before I installed them to make sure they were compatible
with Vista. They assured me they were. The programs work just fine in
the Vista, but a security shield sits on top of the icons all the time
to warn me that they are a risk to my computer. However with the UAC
off, I don't get the annoying message anymore.

If those programs, safe as you believe them to be, were truly
Vista-compatible, they wouldn't need UAC turned off to work correctly.




--

Bruce Chambers

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