Which XP to use

[cnic]

I just purchased a new laptop. It came with Vista on it and I have had so
many problems with the display drivers that HP has decided I have a faulty
card and is now sending me a brand new laptop to the exact same specs. My
thought on it is that since I am still going to be getting the Vista OS and
the same Nvidia video card, that the problems will still be there. I have
researched and seen in several places that even though they (MS and Nvidia)
say the two are compatible, they are having a LOT of problems. The screen
randomly goes black for various amounts of time and sometimes comes back up
in safe mode while other times coming back with all the icons on the desktop
scrambled. Yet at other times, the whole system locks down and I have to do
a hard re-boot to turn the thing off. My screen saver (simple default
slideshow) locks the computer everytime it comes up so I had to disable it.
In the middle of a power point slide show, it randomly locks up and while I
can move the mouse, the slides will not advance. It is also so slow that
the blue circle of death just hangs in the screen for as long as 40 seconds
just to bring up a new message window in the mail. To reply takes even
longer. It takes at least 1-2 minutes to boot. Just a lot of irritating
stuff like that.

What I plan to do is purchase a new full install of XP and wipe out the
Vista when I get the new computer. I have had XP Home on 3 computer and
have had absolutely no problems in 3 years. What are the differences in
Home and Pro and is it worth the extra $$ to go with Pro over Home.

Those on the Vista newsgroup are very critical of anyone wanting to go "back
in time" and re-install XP over Vista. They say people like me are just
stupid and don't know how to run a system so therefore cannot handle a
powerful hack-proof program like Vista. In fact, they are very rude a lot
of times. I just want an OS that will actually run and not waste my time
with unnecessary messages that pop up all the time telling me what I already
know I am doing. I also have had too many programs not function properly
and I cannot afford to purchase thousands of dollars of new programs to
accommodate Mr. Gates.

The "certified" techies on the Vista site have said that a Vista SP is not
scheduled until the 4thQ of '08. That is too long for me to mess with their
"bugs" and problems. Even if it were the 4th Q of this year, that is still
too long. My time and sanity is worth more than that.

I do graphic design out of my home and run high end graphic programs (Adobe,
Corel).

Any advice is welcome.

Thanks oodles!
cnic

 

[Shenan Stanley]

I just purchased a new laptop. It came with Vista on it and I have
had so many problems with the display drivers that HP has decided I
have a faulty card and is now sending me a brand new laptop to the
exact same specs. My thought on it is that since I am still going
to be getting the Vista OS and the same Nvidia video card, that the
problems will still be there. I have researched and seen in
several places that even though they (MS and Nvidia) say the two
are compatible, they are having a LOT of problems. The screen
randomly goes black for various amounts of time and sometimes comes
back up in safe mode while other times coming back with all the
icons on the desktop scrambled. Yet at other times, the whole
system locks down and I have to do a hard re-boot to turn the thing
off. My screen saver (simple default slideshow) locks the computer
everytime it comes up so I had to disable it. In the middle of a
power point slide show, it randomly locks up and while I can move
the mouse, the slides will not advance. It is also so slow that
the blue circle of death just hangs in the screen for as long as 40
seconds just to bring up a new message window in the mail. To reply
takes even longer. It takes at least 1-2 minutes to boot. Just a
lot of irritating stuff like that.
What I plan to do is purchase a new full install of XP and wipe out
the Vista when I get the new computer. I have had XP Home on 3
computer and have had absolutely no problems in 3 years. What are
the differences in Home and Pro and is it worth the extra $$ to go
with Pro over Home.
Those on the Vista newsgroup are very critical of anyone wanting to
go "back in time" and re-install XP over Vista. They say people
like me are just stupid and don't know how to run a system so
therefore cannot handle a powerful hack-proof program like Vista. In fact,
they are very rude a lot of times. I just want an OS that
will actually run and not waste my time with unnecessary messages
that pop up all the time telling me what I already know I am doing.
I also have had too many programs not function properly and I
cannot afford to purchase thousands of dollars of new programs to
accommodate Mr. Gates.

I have not seen this rudeness from those trying to actually help - those
who say things like that are basically immature and not used to dealing
with people of any sort.

The "certified" techies on the Vista site have said that a Vista SP
is not scheduled until the 4thQ of '08. That is too long for me to
mess with their "bugs" and problems. Even if it were the 4th Q of
this year, that is still too long. My time and sanity is worth
more than that.

Your problem (between Vista and an NVidia card) may have been
strictly hardware related. It may be your Vista installed new laptop
will run just fine. However - it may not.

As far as SP1 - there is no guarantee that would fix your issue - as
it may be one of a third party driver... NVidia in this case - and not
the OS.

I do graphic design out of my home and run high end graphic
programs (Adobe, Corel).

As for which OS (Windows XP Home, Professional, x64, Media Center) you
should run - that would be decided by your needs and capabilities
(actually - your machine's capabilities.)

If you have a 64bit processor in that machine of yours and want to utilize
more than 3GB of memory for your applications - x64 is the way to go - as
long as all of your normal applications will run on it (would be even better
if they had a true 64 bit version) and all of your hardware has drivers for
Windows XP x64... (Semi-same boat as Windows Vista...)

If you have need for domain joining capabilities or need more granular
control over user/file/folder permissions and the likes - you can go Windows
XP Professional.

If Windows XP Home Edition has worked fine for you so far - you will be
running basically the same software on this machine as the one that has been
working fine for you before - then why ruin something that works (and why
spend the extra money on features you won't be using...?)

Now - whether you get Retail or OEM is your next choice.

OEM is less expensive but is non-tranferrable and no Microsoft direct
support.
Retail can be moved from machine to machine and you get a support call or
two for your purchase - but you paid for it - trust me. heh

 

[Guest]

The main difference between XP HE and XP Pro is Networking functionality. XP
Pro is able to join a domain and XP HE isn't. There are other security
functions that XP Pro has as well. If you just use this computer at home and
do not plan on getting a server and running a domain at home then I suggest
saving your money and sticking with XP HE. Good Luck with your decision,

Joe

Kemco ITP

 

[Guest]

OEM is less expensive but is non-tranferrable and no Microsoft direct

support.

Now really, can you get microsoft direct support for retail products? From
my experience you don't get much help you just get an option to pay over $300
for Help from Microsoft anyway. If I am wrong then I have never been able to
get in touch with the proper people but I have retail XP and have never
gotten any support from any phone numbers I've called. (The Activation
department is good however) Let me know how you can recieve FREE support on
retail products if you would. I would really like to know. Thanks,

Joe

Kemco ITP

 

[cnic]

Shenan,
Thanks for your input. I really appreciate the responses.

I have not seen this rudeness from those trying to actually help - those
who say things like that are basically immature and not used to dealing
with people of any sort.

You are right. Most of these types of comments are not from MVP's
but they are still there from people posing as self-proclaimed experts.

As far as SP1 - there is no guarantee that would fix your issue - as
it may be one of a third party driver... NVidia in this case - and not
the OS.

Right again, but if the drivers are not compatible with Vista, it is
still, in a round about way, a Vista problem that wouldn't happen with XP.
I do hear what you are saying though.

As for which OS (Windows XP Home, Professional, x64, Media Center) you
should run - that would be decided by your needs and capabilities
(actually - your machine's capabilities.)

It isn't a top line setup, but will work. I only use it for my two
programs and mail basically. Also have Office 2003. That is pretty much
all I am running that is of any size. I save everything on external HD. I
This is a 32 bit OS.
AMD Turion 64x2 Mobile Technology TL-50 1.6 GHz
1 GB Ram (plan on making it 2GB)

If Windows XP Home Edition has worked fine for you so far - you will be
running basically the same software on this machine as the one that has
been working fine for you before - then why ruin something that works (and
why spend the extra money on features you won't be using...?)

Ok, that makes sense. I agree 100%. The only reason I asked is
that a friend suggested I go with PRO rather than HOME if I had the choice.
Since I am only familiar with Home, I was wondering what the differences
were that were going to be beneficial to me and if they were worth it.
Sounds like I can stick with Home and get the SP updates and be just fine.

Now - whether you get Retail or OEM is your next choice.

OEM is less expensive but is non-tranferrable and no Microsoft direct
support.
Retail can be moved from machine to machine and you get a support call or
two for your purchase - but you paid for it - trust me. heh

I have never purchased an OS, just used what came on the machine. I
get a new unit every two years and upgrade that way. I know what OEM means,
but don't know about purchasing. As far as other programs, such as Office,
Corel, etc....I have purchased all of them off the shelf at a local
retailer. I assume that makes them retail.

 

[Shenan Stanley]

Now really, can you get microsoft direct support for retail
products? From my experience you don't get much help you just get
an option to pay over $300 for Help from Microsoft anyway. If I am
wrong then I have never been able to get in touch with the proper
people but I have retail XP and have never gotten any support from
any phone numbers I've called. (The Activation department is good
however) Let me know how you can recieve FREE support on retail
products if you would. I would really like to know. Thanks,

For the U.S.A.:
http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?ln=en-us&x=1&y=12&prid=3518&gprid=185522

No-charge:
- 2 support requests
- Installation support - Unlimited no charge by phone.

 

[cnic]

Thanks for the input. It seems to be the concensus.

 

[Bob I]

Just remember that if you flush the installed operating system then HP
will generally tell you to solve any other problems on your own. Also
any and all system specific drivers will be your responsibility to
locate and install. And since it is a laptop, are the drivers available
for XP or are there only Vista compatible ones. I can't say which way to
go, only look very carefully before you leap.

 

[cnic]

I wondered about that.

All I know is that for three years everything has worked superbly on XP H
and with the Vista I have had nothing but problems. In one month, I have
had to call tech support 9 times because it wasn't functioning or allowing
my programs to function. I teach classes two days a week and rely on the
laptop to work. I can't waste class time trying to get the thing to come
back up after the screen goes black.

If something isn't broke, it doen't need fixed. That is how I feel about
the XP. It worked great. Sure, there were some security issues, but there
will be with the Vista too, I don't care how secure they say it is. There
have already been several posts on the Vista newsgroup pointing out the top
10 vulnerable issues with Vista and how easy it was to "hack" them. So, it
isn't crash proof as long as there are people using it. By saying it is
hackproof, just encourages the hackers and virus spreaders to look for more
ways to prove them wrong. I am not saying that it won't be a great OS when
they get it to work, but until then, I don't have time to mess with it. If
I wanted that, I would have been using the Beta.

Thanks for the input, I am just burned on Vista already.

 

[Ronaldo]

Here are some links to help you decide. If your laptop is a 64bit, for your
line of work I would suggest the 64 bit edition of XP Professional which is
compatible with all your 32bit applications... If not, the 32bit XP Pro
Edition would be best.

Five editions of Windows XP compared
Windows XP Professional x64 Edition
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/evaluation/compare.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/default.mspx?wt_svl=20395a&mg_id=20395b

Windows XP Home Edition vs. Professional Edition: What's the difference?
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_home_pro.asp

Windows XP Home Edition and Professional Reviewed
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/windowsxp.asp

Windows XP Comparison Guide
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/howtobuy/choosing2.mspx

Windows Vista Review
Part 1: Introduction
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista.asp


-------------------------------------

 

[cnic]

Thanks, Ronaldo. That was very helpful.

Here are some links to help you decide. If your laptop is a 64bit, for
your
line of work I would suggest the 64 bit edition of XP Professional which
is
compatible with all your 32bit applications... If not, the 32bit XP Pro
Edition would be best.

Five editions of Windows XP compared
Windows XP Professional x64 Edition
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/evaluation/compare.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/default.mspx?wt_svl=20395a&mg_id=20395b

Windows XP Home Edition vs. Professional Edition: What's the difference?
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_home_pro.asp

Windows XP Home Edition and Professional Reviewed
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/windowsxp.asp

Windows XP Comparison Guide
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/howtobuy/choosing2.mspx

Windows Vista Review
Part 1: Introduction
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista.asp

 

[Rock]

If I had purchased a new computer with the OS preinstalled I would expect it
to work. If it didn't work and had problems right away, I would return it
for a different brand. The issue here is with the setup that HP has for the
computer, including the hardware, the drivers, and the junk software they
include. For many people on the right hardware and with the right drivers
and software Vista runs fine (it does here). Sorry you have had problems
with it and had a bad experience with some of the posters in the Vista
newsgroups. There are some jerks posting in there, including some anti-MS
zealots who come out when a new OS is released. It was the same way when XP
came out.

SP1 for Vista is scheduled to be released at the same time as the RTM
version of Longhorn. Longhorn will release at the SP1 level; Vista will
keep pace with it. What he "techies" told you is incorrect as to the
release date. It is currently scheduled for the 4thQ of 2007.

In any event, before going back to XP, make sure you check on the HP website
for XP compatible drivers for the hardware. Since it's a laptop the
hardware is proprietary. I have heard in some instances the computer
manufacturer's are not supplying XP drivers. I don't know about HP or the
model laptop you purchased, so double check to be sure.

Whatever you do, good luck.

 

[cnic]

Rock,
Thanks for the input. I agree that there is a lot of "extra" software that
is unnecessary. The first thing I do is take off all junk software installed
on a computer when I purchase it. All the internet services, games, and
other stuff are just clutter. I go online and research the startup programs
that are running and find out if they are necessary and disable anything
that doesn't have to be there. This is my 5th HP computer (PC and laptop)
and it just seems odd that it is the only one I have had any issues with. I
guess since Vista is the only thing that is new, it gets the blame.
However, I do know that it is having a lot of compatibality issues. I have
read this other places than the Vista newsgroups as well. It isn't perfect
nor is any other OS, but at least XP works for me.

I would have taken the thing back to the store, but they changed their
policy to 14 days instead of 30 days. I live 90 miles from the store in a
very rural area and it was past the 14 days before I was able to get back.
They told me to have HP give me an RA # and they would trade me out for a
different computer but HP wouldn't do that. So, this is what I have to work
with.

I might think differently if when I got on the Vista newsgroup looking for
answers I would have actually been helped instead of getting caught in a
word war of name calling, sacarcasm, and finger pointing all mixed with
vulgarity. It is a mess over there. Not much real help. Not many real
answers to actual problems either, just a lot of defending and blaming going
on. If a product is what it should be, no one would have to defend it, its
quality would speak for itself. The pat answer is to blame the user. Not
very good for PR.

I will wait and see if I have the same problems before I wipe Vista off and
install XP. I will also wait to install anything else. Tech support already
had me restore to original settings twice, which took off everything I had
installed and I had to go through the same awful mess with the UAC and not
recognizing updates, etc.....a nightmare.
If I have the same problems, I will call them and make sure everything will
work before I do it.

Thanks oodles!

If I had purchased a new computer with the OS preinstalled I would expect
it to work. If it didn't work and had problems right away, I would return
it for a different brand. The issue here is with the setup that HP has
for the computer, including the hardware, the drivers, and the junk
software they include. For many people on the right hardware and with the
right drivers and software Vista runs fine (it does here). Sorry you have
had problems with it and had a bad experience with some of the posters in
the Vista newsgroups. There are some jerks posting in there, including
some anti-MS zealots who come out when a new OS is released. It was the
same way when XP came out.

SP1 for Vista is scheduled to be released at the same time as the RTM
version of Longhorn. Longhorn will release at the SP1 level; Vista will
keep pace with it. What he "techies" told you is incorrect as to the
release date. It is currently scheduled for the 4thQ of 2007.

In any event, before going back to XP, make sure you check on the HP
website for XP compatible drivers for the hardware. Since it's a laptop
the hardware is proprietary. I have heard in some instances the computer
manufacturer's are not supplying XP drivers. I don't know about HP or the
model laptop you purchased, so double check to be sure.

Whatever you do, good luck.

--
Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]

I just purchased a new laptop. It came with Vista on it and I have had so
many problems with the display drivers that HP has decided I have a faulty
card and is now sending me a brand new laptop to the exact same specs. My
thought on it is that since I am still going to be getting the Vista OS
and the same Nvidia video card, that the problems will still be there. I
have researched and seen in several places that even though they (MS and
Nvidia) say the two are compatible, they are having a LOT of problems.
The screen randomly goes black for various amounts of time and sometimes
comes back up in safe mode while other times coming back with all the
icons on the desktop scrambled. Yet at other times, the whole system
locks down and I have to do a hard re-boot to turn the thing off. My
screen saver (simple default slideshow) locks the computer everytime it
comes up so I had to disable it. In the middle of a power point slide
show, it randomly locks up and while I can move the mouse, the slides will
not advance. It is also so slow that the blue circle of death just hangs
in the screen for as long as 40 seconds just to bring up a new message
window in the mail. To reply takes even longer. It takes at least 1-2
minutes to boot. Just a lot of irritating stuff like that.

What I plan to do is purchase a new full install of XP and wipe out the
Vista when I get the new computer. I have had XP Home on 3 computer and
have had absolutely no problems in 3 years. What are the differences in
Home and Pro and is it worth the extra $$ to go with Pro over Home.

Those on the Vista newsgroup are very critical of anyone wanting to go
"back in time" and re-install XP over Vista. They say people like me are
just stupid and don't know how to run a system so therefore cannot handle
a powerful hack-proof program like Vista. In fact, they are very rude a
lot of times. I just want an OS that will actually run and not waste my
time with unnecessary messages that pop up all the time telling me what I
already know I am doing. I also have had too many programs not function
properly and I cannot afford to purchase thousands of dollars of new
programs to accommodate Mr. Gates.

The "certified" techies on the Vista site have said that a Vista SP is
not scheduled until the 4thQ of '08. That is too long for me to mess
with their "bugs" and problems. Even if it were the 4th Q of this year,
that is still too long. My time and sanity is worth more than that.

I do graphic design out of my home and run high end graphic programs
(Adobe, Corel).

Any advice is welcome.

 

[Rock]

Rock,
Thanks for the input. I agree that there is a lot of "extra" software
that is unnecessary. The first thing I do is take off all junk software
installed on a computer when I purchase it. All the internet services,
games, and other stuff are just clutter. I go online and research the
startup programs that are running and find out if they are necessary and
disable anything that doesn't have to be there. This is my 5th HP
computer (PC and laptop) and it just seems odd that it is the only one I
have had any issues with. I guess since Vista is the only thing that is
new, it gets the blame. However, I do know that it is having a lot of
compatibality issues. I have read this other places than the Vista
newsgroups as well. It isn't perfect nor is any other OS, but at least XP
works for me.

It's a new OS that is fundamentally different than XP. Some features are
the same but under the hood there are many differences. Vista compatible
drivers are needed for all the hardware (though in some cases XP drivers
have worked). As with any new OS some hardware manufacturers will not
release Vista drivers for their legacy hardware. This was the case when XP
was released. Some hardware cannot be brought over, which can be very
frustrating. Examples of this certain printers, scanners, USB devices, etc.

For new hardware, again the manufacturer's are responsible for the drivers.
They've had a long time to prepare for this, but unfortunately many have
dropped the ball, including the PC manufacturers for the drivers they have
created for their new hardware, like your laptop.

The same is true of software. You have to be very careful what software you
run; make sure it is Vista compatible and stay away from certain apps, even
if they claim Vista compatibility. There is a world of difference between
one that is patched to work with Vista and one that is written from the
ground up with Vista in mind. And some apps you should just stay away from.
For example, I would never let McAfee or Norton products on a computer, but
these security suites are commonly bundled with OEM computers. Never use a
registry cleaner.

Yes Vista has it's bugs, but it can run well if the hardware, drivers and
software are the right ones. As time goes on the hardware manufacturer's
will catch up with their products and drivers, and software will be coded
from the ground up to work with Vista.

Unfortunately with laptops you are particulary at the mercy of what the
comptuer manufacturer does since this is proprietary hardware.

I'm not saying Vista doesn't have it's share of problems, but I do think it
gets unjustly blamed for many of these issues. If you get a new computer
from a vendor with Vista installed on it, and it doesn't work solid out of
the box, then the blame is clearly on the computer manufacturer because the
fact is it can run well.

I would have taken the thing back to the store, but they changed their
policy to 14 days instead of 30 days. I live 90 miles from the store in a
very rural area and it was past the 14 days before I was able to get back.
They told me to have HP give me an RA # and they would trade me out for a
different computer but HP wouldn't do that. So, this is what I have to
work with.

That's too bad. I'm surprised HP wouldn't help out more. Maybe you need to
complain to someone higher up in the chain. Letters to bosses oft times are
very effective.

I might think differently if when I got on the Vista newsgroup looking for
answers I would have actually been helped instead of getting caught in a
word war of name calling, sacarcasm, and finger pointing all mixed with
vulgarity. It is a mess over there. Not much real help.

I agree the atmosphere in there can be ugly. There are so many trolls
trying to push their agenda which is pathetic, actually. Sometimes the
folks who are trying to help get frustrated and fed up with that bull, and
retaliate. It would be better if that didn't happen, but sometimes some
things get said that is hard to ignore. And then there are those folks who
like Vista but blame the user. That certainly doesn't help either.

Not many real answers to actual problems either, just a lot of defending
and blaming going on.

The OS is new, with new issues and new resolutions needed. So yes there
will be situations where there are no answers. And this is compounded with
proprietary hardware like you have with the HP laptop. With XP being a
mature OS, quite a few of the posters in the XP groups (non MVP and MVP
alike) have had extensive experience from the tech stand point with laptops
and other OEM equipment so they are familiar with the problems and possible
resolutions. With Vista and the new hardware, the experience base isn't yet
built.

On the other hand I see many situations in there where help is obtained due
to someone's experience with a particular situation, program or motherboard,
and with help from the vendor. If you put together your own system and buy
a motherboard, for example, you are much more likely to find someone who has
experience with that, and the board makers are generally more responsive.
Sometimes not always with what you want to hear, sometimes you have to go to
a different board, but you get some response, as opposed to the big OEMs
like HP. You don't have much leverage with them, so it's harder to get
answers.

Amongst all the nastiness in the Vista newsgroups there are success stories.
The loud mouths tend to hang a shadow over this, but it does happen.

If a product is what it should be, no one would have to defend it, its
quality would speak for itself. The pat answer is to blame the user. Not
very good for PR.

I agree with you there. Sometimes the user does deserve the blame, so to
speak, or at least the responsibility for the choices they made, but that
goes more towards those who upgrade without doing their research. In any
event, the user should not be blamed, educated yes, blamed no. But then
the OS and hardware shouldn't be blamed for what the user didn't do. Just
get on with the process of resolving the issues.

I will wait and see if I have the same problems before I wipe Vista off
and install XP. I will also wait to install anything else. Tech support
already had me restore to original settings twice, which took off
everything I had installed and I had to go through the same awful mess
with the UAC and not recognizing updates, etc.....a nightmare.

Unfortunately restoring the system will put back all the garbage software
installed by HP that you took off. This is what I would do. Remove all the
exta software, remove Norton or McAfee, whatever security suite they
provided, look carefully at the software that's there that you would want to
keep to see if it's Vista compatible. Hopefully you can get it to a state
that things run well. Then from that lean state use a drive imaging program
such as Acronis True Image Home version 10 to image the drive to an external
hard drive.

I don't know if you are familiar with imaging, but I wouldn't be without it.
I use it as the main backup strategy. ATI works well in Vista. Right now
newegg.com has a great price on it, $29.99 plus $4.99 shipping. You can get
an EIDE WD Caviar 7200 rpm 320 GB hard drive (white box ) for less than $90.
Stick that in an external drive enclosure (on the order of $20) and connect
that through USB, Firewire or eSata. Regulary image the drive for backups
but keep an image of it in it's pristine, lean state.

After that start adding software, and if something causes a problem go back
to a previous image. For AV I like Avast (free version). For paid I would
recommend NOD32. Use the builit in firewall, no need for a 3rd party
product. For anti-spyware stick with Defender and add Adaware SE Personal,
SpyBot S&D, and Spyware Blaster. Do manual scans on a regular basis with
Ad-Aware and Spybot. Update Spyware Blaster regularly. It isn't a scanner.

I can't gaurantee this will allow the laptop to run Vista well, since it
depends heavily on the drivers that HP provides. There might also be a BIOS
update from HP that will help. BIOS problems can greatly affect the system
operation such as hibernate and standby, startup and shutdown, etc.

Acronis True Image can image on a drive or partition basis. It also does
file backup, and disk cloning. Images can be full, incremental or
differential, reducing the amount of space needed for subsequent images.
Restores can be done on a file, partition or drive basis. I never make
changes to a system without having a current image.

If I have the same problems, I will call them and make sure everything
will work before I do it.

Thanks oodles!

You're welcome. Good luck.

 

[cnic]

Rock,
Very good. I appreciate your replies. This is very helpful.
I do use an external hard drive for some programs, such as my QB. I back
everything up on there regularly. Don't know anything about imaging, but I
will research it.
I use AVG for my AV. ( I refuse to use Norton. The only virus I got was
under Norton's "protection". It slows my system down too much too.)
I have the full version of Ad-Aware SE. I also have SpyBot S&D and Spyware
Blaster. If I run into anything "weird" going on these won't cure, I run
hijack this to see what I have and go from there.
I haven't installed any of the above except for the AV because I was having
so many compatibality problems I didn't know if they would work on Vista or
not.

Thanks for all the input.
Blessings!

 

[Rock]

Rock,
Very good. I appreciate your replies. This is very helpful.
I do use an external hard drive for some programs, such as my QB. I back
everything up on there regularly. Don't know anything about imaging, but
I will research it.
I use AVG for my AV. ( I refuse to use Norton. The only virus I got was
under Norton's "protection". It slows my system down too much too.)
I have the full version of Ad-Aware SE. I also have SpyBot S&D and
Spyware Blaster. If I run into anything "weird" going on these won't
cure, I run hijack this to see what I have and go from there.
I haven't installed any of the above except for the AV because I was
having so many compatibality problems I didn't know if they would work on
Vista or not.

You're welcome. Yes AVG (free) is also popular and seems to work fine in
Vista.

There is another option when making the transition to Vista, though it's
harder to set up in a case like yours where the Vista install is OEM so it
has to be done first, but it can be done. Setup a dual boot with XP. Use a
Vista compatible partitioning program such as BootIt NG (BING) or Acronis
Disk Director Suite. With Vista installed, repartition the drive to create
a second partition for XP. Then with a retail copy of XP install it to the
new partition. This will over write the Vista boot files so they will need
to be restored. VistaBootPro works for this. Here are some links for your
consideration.

http://bertk.mvps.org/html/dualboot.html

Dual boot XP and vista where you install XP after vista
http://www.pro-networks.org/forum/about88924.html&sid=4d74351046374ca79e6dd6090b0bd9a2

There is a downside with dual boot, if XP can see the Vista partition when
you boot into XP it will delete the System Restore points, File Shadow
Copies and certain of the backups created in Vista. The way around this is
to hide the Vista partition from XP. The first link above talks about that.
It's no big deal for me since I regularly image the system with Acronis True
Image.

I set up a dual boot when I was testing Vista during the TechBeta and stuck
with it after Vista went RTM because I couldn't get a Vista driver for a
legacy NEC laser printer. Subsequently I was able to get it installed using
an HP driver for one of the laser jet models. Since then I rarely boot into
XP, I only do it monthly for windows update and to update the AV program, or
on a rare occasion to retrieve an needed archived email.

Have fun.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

I just purchased a new laptop. It came with Vista on it and I have had
so many problems with the display drivers that HP has decided I have a
faulty card and is now sending me a brand new laptop to the exact same
specs. My thought on it is that since I am still going to be getting
the Vista OS and the same Nvidia video card, that the problems will
still be there.

That doesn't necessarily follow, at all. Just because the first laptop
had defective hardware components (most likely) or corrupted drivers,
this is no indication that the replacement laptop will have the same
problem.

I have researched and seen in several places that even
though they (MS and Nvidia) say the two are compatible, they are having
a LOT of problems.

You're omitting the 3rd factor in those reported problems: it's a known
problem only when added to a specific motherboard. For instance, I'm
having absolutely no problems with Vista and NVidia graphics drivers.

The screen randomly goes black for various amounts
of time and sometimes comes back up in safe mode while other times
coming back with all the icons on the desktop scrambled. Yet at other
times, the whole system locks down and I have to do a hard re-boot to
turn the thing off. My screen saver (simple default slideshow) locks
the computer everytime it comes up so I had to disable it. In the middle
of a power point slide show, it randomly locks up and while I can move
the mouse, the slides will not advance. It is also so slow that the
blue circle of death just hangs in the screen for as long as 40 seconds
just to bring up a new message window in the mail. To reply takes even
longer. It takes at least 1-2 minutes to boot. Just a lot of irritating
stuff like that.

That sounds more like defective or over-heating RAM, to me. Of course,
a laptop has to perforce use the system RAM for video, as there is no
separate, distinct video adapter.

What I plan to do is purchase a new full install of XP and wipe out the
Vista when I get the new computer. I have had XP Home on 3 computer and
have had absolutely no problems in 3 years. What are the differences in
Home and Pro and is it worth the extra $$ to go with Pro over Home.

It's your choice, of course, but you'd better ask HP what affect such
an action will have on your warranty and service agreements. Normally,
you'd be voiding them. You'd also better check with HP to see if they
provide WinXP-specific device drivers for that specific model laptop
before proceeding. There's a very good chance that they don't, if the
laptop was originally designed for Vista.

Those on the Vista newsgroup are very critical of anyone wanting to go
"back in time" and re-install XP over Vista. They say people like me are
just stupid and don't know how to run a system so therefore cannot
handle a powerful hack-proof program like Vista. In fact, they are very
rude a lot of times.

You've been reading some of the trolls (who do seem to be much more
numerous in the Vista newsgroups), rather than those interested in
helping. The ones the deservedly get short shrift are those few who
rushed out and bought the newest and shiniest OS, and then upgraded an
older, less-than-fully-compatible machine, without doing a lick of
advance planning or research, and then irately blamed Microsoft and
Vista for all of their self-inflicted problems.

In your case, purchasing a new computer with Vista pre-installed, you'd
have simply been advised to contact HP for warranty support.

I just want an OS that will actually run and not
waste my time with unnecessary messages that pop up all the time telling
me what I already know I am doing.

So, the UAC annoys you? Turn it off.

I also have had too many programs
not function properly and I cannot afford to purchase thousands of
dollars of new programs to accommodate Mr. Gates.

Well, no. That's why you'd have determined the compatibility of those
programs *before* deciding to purchase a computer with a new operating
system.

The "certified" techies on the Vista site have said that a Vista SP is
not scheduled until the 4thQ of '08. That is too long for me to mess
with their "bugs" and problems. Even if it were the 4th Q of this year,
that is still too long. My time and sanity is worth more than that.

So far, nothing you've said points to any problems with Vista, per se.
Granted, you might have gotten a bad installation from HP, but that'll
be easily remedied under warranty support. There's no need to wait for
a service pack.

I do graphic design out of my home and run high end graphic programs
(Adobe, Corel).

Have those companies certified their products for use on Vista? I know
Adobe's certainly been dragging its feet producing software for Vista.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell

 

[cnic]

Thanks!

You're welcome. Yes AVG (free) is also popular and seems to work fine in
Vista.

There is another option when making the transition to Vista, though it's
harder to set up in a case like yours where the Vista install is OEM so it
has to be done first, but it can be done. Setup a dual boot with XP. Use
a Vista compatible partitioning program such as BootIt NG (BING) or
Acronis Disk Director Suite. With Vista installed, repartition the drive
to create a second partition for XP. Then with a retail copy of XP
install it to the new partition. This will over write the Vista boot
files so they will need to be restored. VistaBootPro works for this.
Here are some links for your consideration.

http://bertk.mvps.org/html/dualboot.html

Dual boot XP and vista where you install XP after vista
http://www.pro-networks.org/forum/about88924.html&sid=4d74351046374ca79e6dd6090b0bd9a2

There is a downside with dual boot, if XP can see the Vista partition when
you boot into XP it will delete the System Restore points, File Shadow
Copies and certain of the backups created in Vista. The way around this
is to hide the Vista partition from XP. The first link above talks about
that. It's no big deal for me since I regularly image the system with
Acronis True Image.

I set up a dual boot when I was testing Vista during the TechBeta and
stuck with it after Vista went RTM because I couldn't get a Vista driver
for a legacy NEC laser printer. Subsequently I was able to get it
installed using an HP driver for one of the laser jet models. Since then
I rarely boot into XP, I only do it monthly for windows update and to
update the AV program, or on a rare occasion to retrieve an needed
archived email.

Have fun.

 

[cnic]

Thanks Bruce,
Disablig the UAC is the first thing I do.

 

[Rock]

Thanks Bruce,
Disablig the UAC is the first thing I do.

Personally I don't have a problem with it. I get very few prompts now.
There were more when first setting up the system. UAC gives the user
control over what is running with admin privileges. Choosing the right
software helps too. Here are some links with info on the purpose/use of
UAC. There is a paradigm shift in Vista, UAC is one aspect of that. It
will be interesting to see what happens in the future with respect to UAC.
The main issue is ascertaining user intent.

Confusion about Vista Features: What UAC Really Is
http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jes...-about-vista-features-what-uac-really-is.aspx

Why is Windows Vista always asking for my permission: An explanation of UAC
(User Account Control)
http://www.jimmah.com/vista/security/uac.aspx

Windows Vista User Account Control Step by Step Guide
http://technet2.microsoft.com/Windo...8514-4c9e-ac08-4c21f5c6c2d91033.mspx?mfr=true