C
Chad Harris
Amen. Paul is right on target.
CH
CH
Paul Smith said:
B
Bob
Adam Albright said:
Maybe you can name one thing as complex as a OS that is released with no
bugs?
Cars - Umm no.
Ubuntu - Umm no.
C
Chad Harris
Although I'm plenty critical of Vista Bob, when I think it warrants, let me
put it into some context for you. It has much beneath the surface that is
good, and it is an easy OS to learn your way around. MSFT has a robust
extensive help that can either be used for Vista or from its website:
Vista Online Help (also available from the Start Menu)
http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/default.mspx
By now there are considerably more drivers for Vista 32 or 64 bit than there
were several months ago, so the going with devices is much easier.
I would encourage you to try it and not to be scared at all. The service
pack is not going to change functionality noticably for you. It will be a
rollup basically of hotfixes.
CH
put it into some context for you. It has much beneath the surface that is
good, and it is an easy OS to learn your way around. MSFT has a robust
extensive help that can either be used for Vista or from its website:
Vista Online Help (also available from the Start Menu)
http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/default.mspx
By now there are considerably more drivers for Vista 32 or 64 bit than there
were several months ago, so the going with devices is much easier.
I would encourage you to try it and not to be scared at all. The service
pack is not going to change functionality noticably for you. It will be a
rollup basically of hotfixes.
CH
C
carl feredeck
Although I'm plenty critical of Vista Bob
Vista Bob?
As in microsoft Bob? No vista will reach number one crappiest software of
all times.. leaving MS bob behind.
LOL
Vista Bob?
As in microsoft Bob? No vista will reach number one crappiest software of
all times.. leaving MS bob behind.
LOL
Chad Harris said:
A
Adam Albright
You should check out the XP newsgroups. They are actually busier than the
Vista newsgroups with even more horror stories. A quick Google search for
Vista problems has 53 million hits, XP problems has 71 million, Linux
problems has 154 million,and OS X problems 174 million. By your logic they
are all to be avoided. In reality they all work pretty good and have
millions of satisfied users. Satisfied users rarely post to news groups
Maybe Microsoft should require MVPs to take lessons on how to argue a
point. Sad to say I give most MVPs a failing grade.
Of course there are more posts about XP issues, it's been out, what
five years? How long has Vista been out? About five months and already
53 million hits or more than half of what XP generated in more than
ten times that time span. That suggests way more people are having
trouble with Vista then they did with XP.
As far as your other "point" that too is self evident. Of course
people that are experiencing problems are more likely to post to
so-called support newsgroups like this than people not experiencing
problems.
You don't pick up a newspaper and see page have page of stories
something along the line of Mr. Smith got up this morning, showered,
dressed, ate breakfast, went to work, etc.. No, that would be silly.
Newspapers report NEWS, newsgroups report problems.
C
carl feredeck
I am starting to believe that MS picks people for certain traits in order to
make them MVP's.
First and most important trait: the ability to be brainwashed and follow the
"leader" blindly.
make them MVP's.
First and most important trait: the ability to be brainwashed and follow the
"leader" blindly.
C
carl feredeck
I replied very similarly to you Adam.. and there is another thing our
"clever" mvp did not consider...
He is comparing all versions of linux (distros) with only one make of
windows...
if you want to be fair, you should combine all versions of windows and see
that they far exceed the linux posts..
and windows SHOULD be user friendly! lol
Not that I am a linux fan... but im not a vista fan either!
Vista is the crappiest OS ever!
"clever" mvp did not consider...
He is comparing all versions of linux (distros) with only one make of
windows...
if you want to be fair, you should combine all versions of windows and see
that they far exceed the linux posts..
and windows SHOULD be user friendly! lol
Not that I am a linux fan... but im not a vista fan either!
Vista is the crappiest OS ever!
M
Mike
Chad Harris said:
XP SP2. It was a HUGE change. Major new functionality.
Mike
A
Adam Albright
Countless products are brought to market without serious flaws.
A color television is a fairly complex device, so are MRI machines,
CAT scanners, photo copy machines, jet aircraft, railroad engines,
etc.. Not suggesting any of the above are flawless but they don't have
a pattern of getting released only to undergo a major recall to fix
problems six to ninth months later. That IS Microsoft's history for
twenty plus years and counting.
M
Mike
Adam Albright said:
Did you have one of the first color sets in the early 60s? Far from
flawless.
You can't compare software to any mechanical device. Software as
complex as an OS has billions of "moving parts", and must interact with
thousands of different hardware configurations. There is simply no way
to test that.
None of them are nearly as complex as a modern computer OS either.
Most of the above are 50 (or more) year old technology.
If you want to talk about complex hardware, how about the U.S. Space
Shuttle? One of them exploded on takeoff, one burned up in re-entry,
and they are *always* being "delayed" or one reason or another.
Again, complex systems are not flawless. It is not possible. But
hey, keep on telling yourself that is - it makes such a *great* straw
man argument for you.
Mike
B
Bob
Adam Albright said:
A color television is not a complex device.
Photo copy machines are not a complex device.
Railroad engines are not a complex device.
None of the above require millions of lines of code to operate.
And I know for a fact jet aircraft do have recalls and retrofits all the
time.
R
R. McCarty
Everything you listed is in and of itself a closed system. Windows
( or any OS ) is a platform that is used to load/run 3rd-party apps
and hardware. If Microsoft delivered a "Closed" system like Apple
( or to a lesser degree Linux ) then ~90%+ of all issues disappear.
It's generally known that the majority of BSODs are the result of
drivers. Of those the Lion's Share is the result of Video & Printer
drivers. Let's give credit where it's due, considering what Windows
supports and runs it does a good job.
Start loading Norton or Intuit programs on a Apple or Linux PC
and see how quickly you can crash the computer. ( Yes I know
they don't offer products for those platforms - but you get the idea ).
( or any OS ) is a platform that is used to load/run 3rd-party apps
and hardware. If Microsoft delivered a "Closed" system like Apple
( or to a lesser degree Linux ) then ~90%+ of all issues disappear.
It's generally known that the majority of BSODs are the result of
drivers. Of those the Lion's Share is the result of Video & Printer
drivers. Let's give credit where it's due, considering what Windows
supports and runs it does a good job.
Start loading Norton or Intuit programs on a Apple or Linux PC
and see how quickly you can crash the computer. ( Yes I know
they don't offer products for those platforms - but you get the idea ).
G
Guest
What I hope and pray for in SP1 is some resolution to Vista's TOTAL INABILITY
to work with drivers for USB devices.
Every other time I wake up my PC, it forgets the driver for some device or
another and wants me to reinstall it. And the process for installing drivers
relies entirely too much on the user having to tell the computer where on the
hard drive to look for a driver -- at which point it just picks one out
willy-nilly like it's choosing a sweetie from a huge bowl.
This costs me time every day, and there have been times when I've had to
manually delete and reinstall drivers from the Device Manager, which is not
easy when they're given generic names like "Root USB" somethingoranother.
I like my PC, and my Windows Mobile device is like an extension of my brain,
but this driver issue with Vista is driving me batty and I want it FIXED!
to work with drivers for USB devices.
Every other time I wake up my PC, it forgets the driver for some device or
another and wants me to reinstall it. And the process for installing drivers
relies entirely too much on the user having to tell the computer where on the
hard drive to look for a driver -- at which point it just picks one out
willy-nilly like it's choosing a sweetie from a huge bowl.
This costs me time every day, and there have been times when I've had to
manually delete and reinstall drivers from the Device Manager, which is not
easy when they're given generic names like "Root USB" somethingoranother.
I like my PC, and my Windows Mobile device is like an extension of my brain,
but this driver issue with Vista is driving me batty and I want it FIXED!
A
Adam Albright
I just want the OS I use to stay in the background, not be a nag and
simply work. Heck, that hardly sounds like an unreasonable request.
It also would be nice if Microsoft fixed some of the long remaining
bugs. For example since at least XP, probably before, icons at the
extreme right on the Task bar disappear. The whole point of having
them there is to provide quick access. Sometimes when you boot they
are there, then they can disappear only to appear again. No, clicking
on the unhide arrow doesn't work.
Then new in Vista you got the Sidebar Gadgets. I only have five, but
they randomly rearrange their order for no reason.
It's little things like this that bug users that slave away on their
computers for 10 hours or more daily.
A
Adam Albright
The point you miss is neither does a operating system need millions of
lines of code. Vista is bloatware with 50 million lines of code. It
was made this overly complex for no good reason and is a crazy quilt
collection of code patched together. That's a sure sign Microsoft's
programmers don't talk to each other. Nobody at Microsoft knows what
every line does or interacts with other sections. That IS a problem.
By the way a color tv is for sure a complex device. You want me to
give you a lecture on color tv theory and how the circuits work
together? I could, I built a color tv from scratch when I was just a
17 year old kid. That was many moons ago. Best damn tv I have had. Had
to finally junk it some of the wiring was getting brittle. ;-)
M
Mike
Adam Albright said:
No, it isn't. The fact that you built one at 17 pretty much proves
that. Wake us up when you write Vista from scratch, OK?
Mike
A
Adam Albright
Actually you can. I got over 30 years under my belt, I helped write
some fairly complex custom software in my time, was responsible for
overseeing the entire IT and accounting departments for a multi
billion dollar corporation and I learned from a guy that had a masters
in computer science and a PhD in Mathematics. His favorite saying was
"... if you can do it with a paper and pencil I can do it with this"
pointing to his IBM 360. You know what... even though it was just the
early 70's he COULD do it and he was paid VERY WELL because he could
do it.
http://www.the-adam.com/adam/rantrave/ibm_360.jpg
No, I'm not that Adam.
My point is there is good software, well written, well thought out,
well tested, then there is bloatware, what Microsoft specializes in.
B
Bob
Adam Albright said:
A color TV is not a complex device. I have taken many electronic classes
over the years and a TV is not on the same scale of complexity as a OS. If
you built one when you were 17 that proves it. Try writing something simple
like a BIOS and you will get a small idea about complex systems.
Maybe if you want a simple OS you should stick with DOS or CPM.
A
Adam Albright
Typical ignorant fanboy. Can't debate worth a s*it, just try to put
the other guy down.
M
mikeyhsd
our resident whiner at not work again.
WHINE, WHINE, WHINE.
(e-mail address removed)
The impossible dream... a version of Windows that actually works as
advertised.
What we'll get is:
1. a major rewrite of the useless User Account Control nightmare.
2. Microsoft sneaking in a fix for "calculating time remaining".
3. Fixes for some of the over 500 bugs Vista was shipped with.
The point of course why do users of Windows ALWAYS have to wait six to
nine month for SPI before Microsoft has a reasonably clean version of
what the initial release was SUPPOSE to be?
Only the software industry gets away with shoveling crap out the door
in some poorly tested, unfinished version. If Microsoft made widgets
they would have been laughed out of business years ago for never being
able to release any product that didn't require a major rework months
later.
WHINE, WHINE, WHINE.
(e-mail address removed)
The impossible dream... a version of Windows that actually works as
advertised.
What we'll get is:
1. a major rewrite of the useless User Account Control nightmare.
2. Microsoft sneaking in a fix for "calculating time remaining".
3. Fixes for some of the over 500 bugs Vista was shipped with.
The point of course why do users of Windows ALWAYS have to wait six to
nine month for SPI before Microsoft has a reasonably clean version of
what the initial release was SUPPOSE to be?
Only the software industry gets away with shoveling crap out the door
in some poorly tested, unfinished version. If Microsoft made widgets
they would have been laughed out of business years ago for never being
able to release any product that didn't require a major rework months
later.