Vuescan 7.6.61/FS4000 no raw infrared clean?

[zbzbzb]

I was recently trying to use raw files to speed up my work flow but have
noticed that when I process the raw files there is no infrared cleaning option
available and the raw file itself shows no infrared cleaning being done (dust
is clearly visible) even when I have infrared cleaning slected for the original
scan to raw. If I scan to a .tif in the original scanning process then infrared
cleaning works great. Apparently the raw output mode doesn't support the
infrared cleaning, at least in the version of Vuescan I am using. Can anyone
confirm this and does anyone know if the latest version supports infrared
cleaning when outputing raw files with the Canon FS4000? I checked the release
notes and did not see anything mentioned. Any help appreciated.

 

[Klaas Visser]

I was recently trying to use raw files to speed up my work flow but have
noticed that when I process the raw files there is no infrared cleaning option
available and the raw file itself shows no infrared cleaning being done (dust
is clearly visible) even when I have infrared cleaning slected for the original
scan to raw. If I scan to a .tif in the original scanning process then infrared
cleaning works great. Apparently the raw output mode doesn't support the
infrared cleaning, at least in the version of Vuescan I am using. Can anyone
confirm this and does anyone know if the latest version supports infrared
cleaning when outputing raw files with the Canon FS4000? I checked the release
notes and did not see anything mentioned. Any help appreciated.

IR cleaning and grain reduction are not applied to raw files in any
version, unless you set "Output|Raw output with" to "Save" - in this
case, the infrared cleaning and grain reduction is done before the raw
scan files are saved.

Check the online user's guide section on the "output" tab for more
details. Generally speaking, I save a raw file at 64bits (48bit image
data, 16 bit IR data), and then process "normal" scans from the raw files.

--
cheers,
Klaas

Learning without thought is labour lost;
Thought without learning is perilous.
- Confucius

 

[zbzbzb]

IR cleaning and grain reduction are not applied to raw files in any

version, unless you set "Output|Raw output with" to "Save" - in this
case, the infrared cleaning and grain reduction is done before the raw
scan files are saved.

Check the online user's guide section on the "output" tab for more
details. Generally speaking, I save a raw file at 64bits (48bit image
data, 16 bit IR data), and then process "normal" scans from the raw files.

Thanks for the tip but unfortunately it doesn't save me any time that way as it
processes the "scan" as opposed to processing the "crop" with the same amount
of time for either. In my particular case I am not concerned with ultimately
having a raw file but simply wanted to save a raw file without having to
process a crop or scan for the savings in time so that later I could simply
process the raw files when I have more time. Unfortunately the only way it
works is without infrared cleaning which I can not sacrifice. Seven minute scan
times with infrared cleaning is excruciating. I can't wait to finish scanning
so I'll never have to deal with film again. Thanks again.

 

[Erik Krause]

Hello, zbzbzb
you wrote...

I was recently trying to use raw files to speed up my work flow but have
noticed that when I process the raw files there is no infrared cleaning option
available and the raw file itself shows no infrared cleaning being done (dust
is clearly visible) even when I have infrared cleaning slected for the
original scan to raw.

You must set Raw file type to 64 bit RGBI to enable IR-cleaning for
scanning from disk. Bits per pixel on Input tab should be set to 64 bit
RGBI, too (don't know whether 'Auto' is sufficient in all cases).

BTW.: For me setting 'Tiff file type' to '64 bit RGBI' on output tab
does not work. IR channel is not saved to the tiff file. Can someone
confirm this?

 

[zbzbzb]

Hello, zbzbzb

you wrote...


You must set Raw file type to 64 bit RGBI to enable IR-cleaning for
scanning from disk. Bits per pixel on Input tab should be set to 64 bit
RGBI, too (don't know whether 'Auto' is sufficient in all cases).

BTW.: For me setting 'Tiff file type' to '64 bit RGBI' on output tab
does not work. IR channel is not saved to the tiff file. Can someone
confirm this?

Danke for the response Erik I have been scanning all day today and didn't
notice that the "I" after the "64 bit RGBI" apparently stands for infrared. I
tried it but it does not work. I am having the same problem as you where when I
set "'Tiff file type' to '64 bit RGBI' on output tab" when processing the raw
file it does not apply infrared cleaning. Anyway, if I view the raw file itself
that was made with all the 64 bit RGBI settings selected as you suggested it is
obvious that infrared cleaning is not being applied.

Oh well, I give up. I will just go back to batch scanning 24 bit .tif files
the way I always have. I don't have nearly as much patience for software and
computers as I used to. I just want to keep things as simple as possible and
enjoy my pictures. Thank again.

P.S. Where in Germany are you? I used to live near Trier for a few years when I
was in the Air Force. I really enjoyed that part of Germany as well as others.
It could get a bit gloomy at times with the rain and cloudy weather but still
very nice. I live in California and believe it or not but I think months of sun
every day can also be gloomy.

 

[Klaas Visser]

Danke for the response Erik I have been scanning all day today and didn't
notice that the "I" after the "64 bit RGBI" apparently stands for infrared. I
tried it but it does not work. I am having the same problem as you where when I
set "'Tiff file type' to '64 bit RGBI' on output tab" when processing the raw
file it does not apply infrared cleaning. Anyway, if I view the raw file itself
that was made with all the 64 bit RGBI settings selected as you suggested it is
obvious that infrared cleaning is not being applied.

Oh well, I give up. I will just go back to batch scanning 24 bit .tif files
the way I always have. I don't have nearly as much patience for software and
computers as I used to. I just want to keep things as simple as possible and
enjoy my pictures. Thank again.

P.S. Where in Germany are you? I used to live near Trier for a few years when I
was in the Air Force. I really enjoyed that part of Germany as well as others.
It could get a bit gloomy at times with the rain and cloudy weather but still
very nice. I live in California and believe it or not but I think months of sun
every day can also be gloomy.

I'm a little confused here, as to what result you actually want.

As far as I know, IR data is only saved with a file when outputing to
the raw format. This then allows you to "scan" the raw file, and apply
IR cleaning to it, without having to handle the actual film again. When
viewing a raw file with IR data included in, say, Photoshop, the IR data
is shown as an alpha channel and is not applied to the image itself
(that is, saving the IR data in the file does not apply the cleaning, it
simply keeps the data in case you want to apply it later).

The FS4000 IR process involves a seperate scan of the film, thus it will
always take longer to scan with IR cleaning turned on, as it does two
scans - one for the RGB data, and one for the IR data. This is a
limitation of the scanner itself. The speed of the scan is directly
related to the resolution you are scanning at - on my FS4000, a full
4000dpi scan with the IR pass takes around six minutes. It is *not* a
fast scanner, even using the SCSI interface

My process is to output raw data with the IR channel included. Because
there is no adjustments made to the image, and only the raw CCD and IR
data is saved, this is done on "autopilot", and I find other things to
do while waiting. Once all the raw images are saved, I can then work
entirely without the scanner, and just process the raw files with
Vuescan - this is very quick.

--
cheers,
Klaas

Learning without thought is labour lost;
Thought without learning is perilous.
- Confucius

 

[zbzbzb]

I'm a little confused here, as to what result you actually want.

As far as I know, IR data is only saved with a file when outputing to
the raw format. This then allows you to "scan" the raw file, and apply
IR cleaning to it, without having to handle the actual film again.

Well you can apply infrared to just output a 24 bit .tif as I have always done.


What I wanted to do is to be able to create a
raw file so that I can bypass the "processing crop" routine, that Vuescan does
to create a .tif, during my scanning session so I can scan more within a
certain amount of time but I want to do that with infrared.



When

viewing a raw file with IR data included in, say, Photoshop, the IR data
is shown as an alpha channel and is not applied to the image itself
(that is, saving the IR data in the file does not apply the cleaning, it
simply keeps the data in case you want to apply it later).

Ah, ok. Still, I cannot output an infrared corrected .tif with the infrared
applied raw files.

The FS4000 IR process involves a seperate scan of the film, thus it will
always take longer to scan with IR cleaning turned on, as it does two
scans - one for the RGB data, and one for the IR data.

That I understand and knew already.


This is a

limitation of the scanner itself. The speed of the scan is directly
related to the resolution you are scanning at - on my FS4000, a full
4000dpi scan with the IR pass takes around six minutes. It is *not* a
fast scanner, even using the SCSI interface

That I definitely understand but I end up using an extra few minutes for each
scan when Vuescan goes into the "processing crop" routine to output a .tif. I
just wanted to not have to go through that final step so that I could scan more
negatives in a session. Later on I would generate the .tifs from the raw files.

My process is to output raw data with the IR channel included. Because
there is no adjustments made to the image, and only the raw CCD and IR
data is saved, this is done on "autopilot", and I find other things to
do while waiting. Once all the raw images are saved, I can then work
entirely without the scanner, and just process the raw files with
Vuescan - this is very quick.

That's exactly what I want and have done but I am not able to output a .tif
from those raw files with infrared applied for so some reason.

Thanks for the response.

 

[zbzbzb]

Well you can apply infrared to just output a 24 bit .tif as I have always
done.


What I wanted to do is to be able to create a
raw file so that I can bypass the "processing crop" routine, that Vuescan
does
to create a .tif, during my scanning session so I can scan more within a
certain amount of time but I want to do that with infrared.



When


Ah, ok. Still, I cannot output an infrared corrected .tif with the infrared
applied raw files.




That I understand and knew already.


This is a


That I definitely understand but I end up using an extra few minutes for
each
scan when Vuescan goes into the "processing crop" routine to output a .tif. I
just wanted to not have to go through that final step so that I could scan
more
negatives in a session. Later on I would generate the .tifs from the raw
files.





That's exactly what I want and have done but I am not able to output a .tif
from those raw files with infrared applied for so some reason.

Thanks for the response.

Disregard as I didn't realize I needed to choose infrared cleaning again when
processing the raw files that included the infrared info. I thought that would
be automatic based on the raw file already having the infrared info. So
basically I have what I wanted though I wish the raw files were not so huge and
unfortunately I can't even preview or open them in Paint Shop Pro 8. I can open
them in Photoshop LE though but I don't use that limited program. Any clues as
to why Paint Shop Pro 8 is not able to open the raw files? My attempts have
been saving uncompressed raw files. Not sure if they would able able to open
the compressed ones. Will try later

Thanks again for the help!

A suggestion for Ed Hamrick: Scanner specific instructions and tips would be
greatly appreciated. You could maybe even sell such info for an extra fee so
that others who would not want it would not have to pay extra for Vuescan.
Thanks for a great program.

 

[Klaas Visser]

On 15/03/04 15:55 zbzbzb posted the following :

Responses interleaved ...

Well you can apply infrared to just output a 24 bit .tif as I have always done.

What I wanted to do is to be able to create a
raw file so that I can bypass the "processing crop" routine, that Vuescan does
to create a .tif, during my scanning session so I can scan more within a
certain amount of time but I want to do that with infrared.

Well, as I mentioned in my earlier reply, if you have the "Output|Raw
output with" set to "Save", the cleaning should be applied before the
raw file is saved. If this doesn't appear to work, you should probably
visit the VueScan site, and log a fault (perhaps download the latest
version and try that as well).

[snip]

That's exactly what I want and have done but I am not able to output a .tif
from those raw files with infrared applied for so some reason.

Okay, this definitely sounds like a bug. because I have no problems
creating cleaned TIFF files using raw files with IR information included.

Only one other suggestion, which you may already be aware of: You have
a raw file with IR information, and you "scan" that to output a cleaned
TIFF. If you are trying to re-save that as a raw file (to avoid the
VueScan crop processing), you need to check the "Enable raw from disk"
setting in the Prefs menu.

Sorry I can't be of more help.
--
cheers,
Klaas

Learning without thought is labour lost;
Thought without learning is perilous.
- Confucius

 

[Klaas Visser]

Disregard as I didn't realize I needed to choose infrared cleaning again when
processing the raw files that included the infrared info. I thought that would
be automatic based on the raw file already having the infrared info. So
basically I have what I wanted though I wish the raw files were not so huge and
unfortunately I can't even preview or open them in Paint Shop Pro 8. I can open
them in Photoshop LE though but I don't use that limited program. Any clues as
to why Paint Shop Pro 8 is not able to open the raw files? My attempts have
been saving uncompressed raw files. Not sure if they would able able to open
the compressed ones. Will try later

Glad you got it sorted out. You can probably ignore my other reply

I've never used Paint Shop Pro (any version) so I can't help you with
that, although I doubt the compression, or lack thereof, would be the
problem.

--
cheers,
Klaas

Learning without thought is labour lost;
Thought without learning is perilous.
- Confucius

 

[zbzbzb]

Glad you got it sorted out. You can probably ignore my other reply

I've never used Paint Shop Pro (any version) so I can't help you with
that, although I doubt the compression, or lack thereof, would be the
problem.

I am just going to stick to batch scanning 24 bit infrared corrected .tifs as
I always have. The huge raw file sizes and not being able to view them in Paint
Shop Pro 8 makes it more of a hassle overall. So long as I get a good initial
scan I never need to rescan anyway. Thanks for the help.

 

[Erik Krause]

Hello, zbzbzb
you wrote...

I can open
them in Photoshop LE though but I don't use that limited program. Any clues as
to why Paint Shop Pro 8 is not able to open the raw files?

May be because they are 16 bit per channel? IrfanView can open them,
but converts them to 8 bit for that purpose (take care not to overwrite
the 16 bit ones on saving!)

My attempts have
been saving uncompressed raw files. Not sure if they would able able to open
the compressed ones.

I always save compressed ones. It's LZW compression that any major
image processor should be able to read...