Victim of software counterfeiting

[Richard Urban]

I have to wonder just how many people are finding out, much to their dismay,
that the operating system on their computer is not legal. They can turn in
the jerk who put it on his/her system and charged him/her for it - as if it
were a legal copy.

As far as easily removing WGA, now that would negate the whole point of
Microsoft doing what they are doing, wouldn't it?

An extremely rich man has the option of putting lo-jack in his Ferrari. He
doesn't have to allow anyone to steal it, just because he can easily afford
to purchase a replacement, or two.

Regardless of what anyone says, my feeling is that Microsoft has the right
to use WGA to ferret out the illegal copies. The user, when caught, has
options.

1. He can say to himself: I got away with it for five years. I guess I
will have to finally buy a copy of Windows XP.

2. He can - yes, really he can - start using an alternative if he is too
cheap to purchase a replacement for that which he has stolen.

3. He can try to find a way around WGA. But I would expect Microsoft to
counter at any time. If I were them, I would.

I have in my software closet multiple copies of every operating system
Microsoft released since DOS 6.0., as well as three different versions of
OS/2. I paid for each one of them. Added up, it would be in the thousands.
Do I hold it against Microsoft and IBM that I had to pay for what I wanted?
I'll let you guess on that, but I will gladly pay for Windows Vista when it
is released, because I "WANT" it.


--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Gene K]

In my opinion, you miss the point which is no more than an effort to prevent
plain theft. If you have any material possessions I presume you do exactly
the same or those things would soon disappear. Why criticize Microsoft for
trying to develope a method to prevent such occurences? EVERY company/person
in the world has a procedure/method to prevent theft. They are open with
that tool and it just ain't spyware. If your copy of Windows is legitimate
just exactly what is the problem? If folks want to know how to remove it
from their Computer, I am not going to waste time with them because the next
Windows Update they have it again. Too, I think some just want to be advised
how to work around that validation tool to hide a pirated version of Windows
which is a criminal act for both the advisor and originator in every place
in the USA and about every where else in this world. The conversation
originator, as I see it, has a problem only with the source who sold/donated
the Computer to him; not with me or you or Microsoft. If he/she actually
knew the OS copy was not legtimate, he/she will have to purchase a
legitimate copy eventually just like you and I in order to solve the
problem. The real world is still out there.
Gene K

 

[Jeff]

Richard,
I think you miss the point. Truly; It is Microsoft's right to be able to charge for their product. I have no issue with that. I have no issue with Genuine Advantage Validations either.
My point is; MS is applying WGA Notification in a way consistent with ; and by their own analysis;SPYWARE. Based on their own internal interpretation of SPYWARE; KB905474 fits into their spyware criteria very nicely.
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/msft/analysis.mspx

Does the outcome justify the means?
No

Is MS using highly questionable tactics to try to stop piracy?
Is MS using it's position of trust;(high priority update) in a manner inconsistent with acceptable industry and business codes of conduct?

I would have to say YES in regards to KB905474
Again;
I have no issue with WGA or it's purpose;
The methodology however;is highly suspect.

Jeff

 

[Leythos]

Is MS using highly questionable tactics to try to stop piracy?

Since only people with pirated copies of Windows have any real problems
with it, I don't consider it questionable.

I just hope they don't move to a key type dongle in order to use it like
other vendors do.

We have over 1500 machines that have not had any problems with WGA, and
the only machine we've found with a WGA warning really did have a
pirated copy of XP on it.

 

[Clay]

I can understand what you're saying but : Why did the S#%T hit the fan when
Sony got caught with their Rootkit??
Were they not just trying to keep people from copying CDs?
Clay

 

[Jeff]

Oops,
I keep referring to Richard, sorry Richard.
my last 2 posts were in reply to Gene K.
Jeff

 

[Jim]

Bull Sh#t

Since only people with pirated copies of Windows have any real problems
with it, I don't consider it questionable.

I just hope they don't move to a key type dongle in order to use it like
other vendors do.

We have over 1500 machines that have not had any problems with WGA, and
the only machine we've found with a WGA warning really did have a
pirated copy of XP on it.

 

[antioch]

Hello Richard
I am in TOTAL agreement with you and ALL those in favour of WGA.
I have no time for thieves or handlers(those who receive stolen property -
knowingly of course). They deserve what they get.
Any company, business or person has the right to protect their property,
even that in transit.
'I got it from a friend' & 'I met this man in a pub/bar' & 'he said it fell
off the back of a lorry and winked at me' Heard them all and many others.
I would not give a damn if MS came up with a WGA that completely cut
off/stopped their computers from even starting or made them impossible to
use.
Now this might seem strange coming from one accused of being an MS Sceptic
and Anti-MS. But those accusers I doubt to see to the end of their noses.

I am sceptic about most things and question everything, not just MS. I have
been around too long to just accept things at first glance.
My objections are to the way WGA was offered/arrived and that once one had
it installed and found that one's OS was
legit/authenticated/authorised/certified etc etc, this bloody 'imposition'
then has to stay on your machine. Yes I am sceptic - as to what the bloody
thing is doing, having done what it was intended to do, but still on my
computer and non removable.
A very senior judge in the UK, some 20yrs ago, had two defendants in court
for sentencing. One was a thief and a burglar who had committed some 40+
crimes.
The other ran one of those second-hand goods shops and he had bought most of
what the thief had stolen(at a tenth of their true value). He gave the
thief three years imprisonment and the receiver five years.
After the two had been 'taken down' the barrister for the receiver asked the
judge why he had given his client a longer prison sentence.
The judge replied, " If there were not any receivers of stolen property
there would not be any thieves"
The judge immediately left the Court, leaving the barrister standing there
with his mouth wide open.
I know - I was there.

Side Comment
Re Clay's mention of Sony - was it not alleged they put on these rootkits
without people's knowledge and there was a serious security problem with
them as well. But then I believe Norton and another company were found to
have done a similar thing with their products. I MAY BE WRONG THOUGH.
I think Sony had to remove theirs???? or plug the security issue.
No litigation please.

I think I have made plain where I stand on this WGA issue.
This is my opinion. I am not open to persuasion to alter it.
Rgds
Antioch

 

[Leythos]

Bull Sh#t

Why? Just because you don't know how to setup valid machines doesn't
mean that most of the rest of us don't. I have just over 1500 systems at
clients offices / facilities, across the us, in use every day. Not a
single one has failed WGA. All machines are a mix of Dell, white-box,
etc... Most are running OEM XP+SP2, some are running the new OEM
licensing, some are XP/SP1 upgraded to SP2, but all of them passed WGA
and have not experienced any problems with it at all.

 

[Guest]

i also had this problem ,but i have done the following:
i have win 98 with xp, i boot using 98,search for "wga" and delete the files
that iam sure that i have not created
be careful when deleting.

if you dont have alternate oprtation system, try to take the hard disk to
one of your frinds and ask him to search it 4 u

it solves my problem,i hope it solves yours

 

[Gene K]

Well, I am no expert on the Sony rootkits; however, I think the manner and
method they used created the fuss rather than their intent. I think most
plainly did not think planting something in their computer files was
justified or legal. Sony probably just went to another method to prevent CD
copying. Sometimes you have to bow to customer opinion.
Hewlett-Packard, for instance, make about seventy percent of their profit
each fiscal year from the sale of printer ink cartridges. I do not think
they would choose to ignore folks copying their designs and manufacturing
methods in order to produce an effective ink cartridge which could be sold
cheaper and substantially reduce HPs market share. Even if they did not have
a good court case, I would expect them to "lawyer" the competition to death
for years and years. Lexmark and Static Control Components have battled in
court for years. You just cannot ignore the large profits some products mean
to the corporation bottom line. The company board, The CEO, stockholders,
and so on down the line want to know what happened when those profits drop
substantially and the "moneymaker" product sales are in a severe decline.
You and I as stockholders would think about selling shares ahead of further
expected decline in the stock price and so would the mutual funds.
Gene K

 

[Gene K]

We all have a social responsibility; however, giving something away is a
personal choice, not a legal requirement. Plus most rich people [including
Bill Gates and his wife] do give large amounts to charity each year. I
personally do not think Mr. Gates accumulated all that money and built such
a large corporation by being completely stupid. The thread originator got
the shaft only from the person he obtained that second computer from and not
from me or you or Bill Gates or anybody else. His recourse, as far as I am
concerned, should come only from there. If he/she knew exactly in advance
what was being obtained, he/she is part of the problem not the solution.

 

[Guest]

I recently (3-4 mos. ago) purchased a new computer from Dell. Two weeks ago
I began getting the pop ups stating that I may not have a genuine copy of
windows. I sent it to my cumputer guy last night - he confirmed that my hkey
is not valid. Dell sent this to me - I did not pirate a copy...now I have to
fight it out with Dell!

 

[Malke]

I recently (3-4 mos. ago) purchased a new computer from Dell. Two
weeks ago I began getting the pop ups stating that I may not have a
genuine copy of
windows. I sent it to my cumputer guy last night - he confirmed that
my hkey
is not valid. Dell sent this to me - I did not pirate a copy...now I
have to fight it out with Dell!

You posted this before and I answered you by saying that it is probably
that your computer guy doesn't understand that the product key that
shows up using Belarc or Aida or other system inventory programs is
*not* the product key that applies to you. The only product key that
applies to you is the one on the sticker on the case. Unless your
computer guy reinstalled Windows on your new Dell using the wrong key
and the wrong type of installation media (and why would he do this?),
your Dell-installed operating system is valid.

You need to find a computer guy who is more competent.

Here are notes about what to do if you have a problem with WGA:

From MVP Carey Frisch:

Please follow this simple troubleshooting procedure:

1. Download and install the WGA Diagnostic Tool
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=56062

2. After running the WGA Diagnostic Tool, click on the "Windows" tab and
then click on "Copy to Clipboard".

3. Next, visit the following website and create a post in the "WGA
Validation Problems" forum and paste the results of the WGA Diagnostic
Data
in a detailed post:
http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/default.aspx?SiteID=25

4. A WGA troubleshooting specialist will analyze the data and recommend
an
appropriate solution.

Windows Genuine Advantage - Diagnostic Site
http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/diag/

Malke

 

[Shenan Stanley]

I recently (3-4 mos. ago) purchased a new computer from Dell. Two
weeks ago I began getting the pop ups stating that I may not have a
genuine copy of windows. I sent it to my cumputer guy last night -
he confirmed that my hkey is not valid. Dell sent this to me - I
did not pirate a copy...now I have to fight it out with Dell!

Your computer guy is a moron.

 

[Richard Urban]

Moron technician, or not, the computer owner is having pop-ups that tell him
that his Dell computer is not legal.

That should not be, regardless what key was used to place the O/S on the
computer by Dell. I worked on a brand new computer out of the box. I open
the box myself the first time, after the customer received it from the
manufacturer. Before I was done cleaning the system and updating the system
guess what. WGA says illegal.

That places me in a difficult position. Either I have to disable the WGA or
give the computer back to the customer and tell him/her that they have an
illegal O/S. ***NOT***

I hope Microsoft and the computer manufacturers get this ironed out quickly
and then communicate the work around to the people who need the answer!

I am beginning to dislike this WGA due to the many legal systems that are
having problems.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Kerry Brown]

I am in total agreement. I've seen a couple of systems that were legit but
removing malware caused WGA to barf. In both cases it was a corrupted user
profile causing the system to use the default profile. Fixing the corrupted
profile or logging in a couple of times with a different non-corrupted
profile caused WGA to go away. Logging in again with the corrupted profile
would bring it back. WGA needs to be fixed. Very few users would be
knowledgeable enough to have figured out what was wrong.

--
Kerry
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

Moron technician, or not, the computer owner is having pop-ups that
tell him that his Dell computer is not legal.

That should not be, regardless what key was used to place the O/S on
the computer by Dell. I worked on a brand new computer out of the
box. I open the box myself the first time, after the customer
received it from the manufacturer. Before I was done cleaning the
system and updating the system guess what. WGA says illegal.

That places me in a difficult position. Either I have to disable the
WGA or give the computer back to the customer and tell him/her that
they have an illegal O/S. ***NOT***

I hope Microsoft and the computer manufacturers get this ironed out
quickly and then communicate the work around to the people who need
the answer!
I am beginning to dislike this WGA due to the many legal systems that
are having problems.

 

[Leythos]

I recently (3-4 mos. ago) purchased a new computer from Dell. Two weeks ago
I began getting the pop ups stating that I may not have a genuine copy of
windows. I sent it to my cumputer guy last night - he confirmed that my hkey
is not valid. Dell sent this to me - I did not pirate a copy...now I have to
fight it out with Dell!

No, what you need to do is reinstall, doing a repair/reinstall, after
fixing the problem that you've had, and see if that fixes your key
problem.

Not one Dell machine that was shipped with XP (even pre SP1) that we
have with customers has failed WGA or WGAN. The only machines I've seen
from Dell that fail WGA/WGAN are ones with upgraded XP that used a
pirated key, ones that were compromised and corrupted (and then fixed as
best they could be), etc....

While your "Computer Guy" may be good, it's obvious that he's not all
there. Take the recovery CD, it should be a standard Windows XP cd, and
google for repair/reinstall XP, then run a repair/reinstall and see if
it passes WGAN.

Oh, and Dell is going to tell you to wipe/reinstall from scratch, so the
repair/reinstall is going to save you some time as it won't (in most
cases) remove any of your documents.

 

[Leythos]

I worked on a brand new computer out of the box. I open
the box myself the first time, after the customer received it from the
manufacturer. Before I was done cleaning the system and updating the system
guess what. WGA says illegal.

What vendor provided this computer? I just want to know so that I can
avoid them.

 

[Guest]

Just purchase a legal operating system and call it a day.