ubuntu SUCKS !!! > the ranting continues

M

Mark Warner

mike said:
I don't find the Mepis site very clear; is it payware?
No.

Or can I d/l an iso and try it?

Yes. Download from one of the mirrors.
Ubuntu did at least go, and as I run a lean and mean version of
windows I can see how out of the box it's slow, but can be tweaked.

But getting on the net and being able to update and d/l specialist
software
(if it exists - I use loadsa lovely freeware apps for assorted odd
jobs) is essential, and so far linux has always defeated me.

Lots of specialized software for Linux. Just don't expect it to be
exactly what you're used to using in Windows. It won't be.
I use a standard ADSL modem, and I have an external modem that I
bought when I was trying very hard, but dialup is not an option for
linux style d/ls.

But I've wasted a lot of life and money on failed linux attempts, and
I'm not prepared to climb a learning mountain any more

Then don't bother. Learning something new always takes time and effort.

Three years ago or so I made a stab at learning this Linux thing. I
tried one install; I trashed a drive that hadn't been backed up, and
couldn't get it to do a couple things I wanted it to immediately. So I
gave up.

This latest foray for me started six months or so ago. I started out
reading everything I could *ahead* of time, and trying out distro after
distro (using slide-in hard drive trays) on an old machine set up just
for this purpose. And I didn't give up. I found a couple small, private,
newbie friendly newsgroups and a couple individuals who were willing to
point me in the right direction on most things, but they let me -- in
fact insisted that I -- make my own mistakes and learn from them. I did.
And I didn't give up.

In six short months I find myself becoming more proficient in this new
environment every day. I try something new in one or both of the current
Linux distros (SimplyMEPIS and Ubuntu) I'm running most every day --
some days they work, some days they don't. Whichever, I don't give up.

Computing hasn't been this much fun and exciting since I was a Windows
newbie. Being a Linux newbie feels the same way.
 
J

jmatt

Computing hasn't been this much fun and exciting since I was a Windows
newbie. Being a Linux newbie feels the same way.
Mark Warner

Beautifully sumed up Mark, learn something new every day, help others &
you never get bored or depressed.
 
C

Craig

Thanks for that link Craig, I may have it wrong, but that appears to
be a server & needs a distro.

Glad you found it useful.

Best description I've found so far for Webmin actually comes from the
description for Usermin (http://www.webmin.com/uintro.html), Webmin's
lil' buddy:
Like Webmin, Usermin consists of a simple web server, and a number of
CGI programs which directly update user config files like ~/.cshrc
and ~/.forward. The web server and all CGI programs are written in
Perl version 5, and use only the non-standard Authen::pAM perl
module.

So yea, it is a web-server tied to cgi scripts. Installing webmin on
your disto (Linux, MSWin, etc), allows one to admin graphically from any
web browser. When I first saw it in action, it made me think it'd help
me in w/avoiding some of the linux cli structures.

hth,
-Craig
 
C

Craig

Mark said:
Same experience here. To continue my SimplyMEPIS pimping... v3.4-3
autoconfigures and automounts much, much more out-of-the-box. Most of
the above were a PITA for me to configure in Ubuntu; in SimplyMEPIS,
most were automagic.

Mark;

You're pimping was too much for me. Am downloading 3.4-3 right now.

tia,
-Craig
 
M

Mark Warner

Craig said:
You're pimping was too much for me. Am downloading 3.4-3 right now.

Cool. Hope you like it as much as I do. Maybe I should get a floppy hat
and a low-rider, yathink?

BTW, the Dapper-based 6.0 Experimental is pretty sweet, too.
 
C

Craig

Mark said:
Cool. Hope you like it as much as I do. Maybe I should get a floppy hat
and a low-rider, yathink?

BTW, the Dapper-based 6.0 Experimental is pretty sweet, too.

Sorry Mark;

She's skank. <grin> Tried installing 3.4-3 on a shuttle ST61G4...
craps out on identifying the serial ata. Researching it now. The
livecd looked real promising btw so, I'll keeping trying.

-Craig
 
B

B.B

john said:
You cant even update firefox... or rather you can but you have to search for
help
on the internet grasping for some nerds information

after googling somewhat I found a page on the wiki ubuntu site (seems that
they prefer to write wikis instead of making sure that the new firefox is
among the
update packages)

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FirefoxNewVersion

Read the page... and read it... and read it... GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

This page is endless! commands with the shell... lol all the reasons why
most people HATE and AVOID linux!

Installing- updating firefox on windows is just a double click!

I cannot understand how this terrible distro is number one on distrowatch,
while others like mandriva and suse that are far superior are further down!

--
Disclaimer: This info is given "as is".
If you do not like the content or attitude of my posts,
please put me on your ignore list or dont read my posts.

--

You are what we call a well-intentioned Linux Troll..

/The "If I can't use it, nobody can" troll/

The logic:

IF var=computing experience, THEN I > the masses IF var=Linux, THEN I
have trouble THUS, IF var=Linux, the masses have even more trouble

-----

<snippets from the article>

Linux users rightly get upset. "You're doing it the Windows way." This
troll doesn't understand what Linux users are talking about. "The
Windows way? The Windows way is the easy way. After all, I haven't had
any trouble with it." What she doesn't realize is how long it's taken
her to learn the Windows way and that now, like a second language,
Linux seems hard not because it is hard but because it's different.

</snip>
 
M

mike

(e-mail address removed) wrote in
Beautifully sumed up Mark, learn something new every day, help others &
you never get bored or depressed.
I'd like to think so; I took up the piano as a retirement project, but
found it very tough as my hands are wired up all wrong, though I waltzed
the theory exams.

But I find linux has such a fog around it, the reading material is
incomprehensible to me, the newsgroups only flame you, not that I can get
connected in linux; (they don't do linux courses either, and I do find that
instruction is very helpful, specially the guided blundering sort).

But I said I'm not prepared for a learning mountain, I'm pushing 70 and not
ready to tackle a life's work. But I have put out loadsa time and money on
mags etc, and blood, toil, tears and sweat... well sorta. I'm prepared for
moderate difficulty. And I hate being beaten.

But attempting the impossible is more depressing than ignoring it.

Oh, well, Fred Langa says puppylinux is worth a shot...

mike
 
M

Mark Warner

Craig said:
Sorry Mark;

She's skank. <grin> Tried installing 3.4-3 on a shuttle ST61G4...
craps out on identifying the serial ata. Researching it now. The
livecd looked real promising btw so, I'll keeping trying.

Surprising. Not exactly mainstream hardware, but still...

Is this the same machine that Ubuntu installs on okay? If so, the
new Dapper-based version that will be out mid-year might do the trick.
 
M

Mark Warner

Mark said:
Is this the same machine that Ubuntu installs on okay? If so, the new
Dapper-based version that will be out mid-year might do the trick.

In fact, if you want to check out the "sneak preview", I have a link
that I believe is still good for a download. Send me a private (note
munge in sig line).
 
M

Marten Kemp

mike said:
But I find linux has such a fog around it, the reading material is
incomprehensible to me, the newsgroups only flame you, not that I can get
connected in linux; (they don't do linux courses either, and I do find that
instruction is very helpful, specially the guided blundering sort).

But I said I'm not prepared for a learning mountain, I'm pushing 70 and not
ready to tackle a life's work. But I have put out loadsa time and money on
mags etc, and blood, toil, tears and sweat... well sorta. I'm prepared for
moderate difficulty. And I hate being beaten.

But attempting the impossible is more depressing than ignoring it.

Oh, well, Fred Langa says puppylinux is worth a shot...

The Linux documentation is written by gearheads for other gearheads
and contains an awful lot of implied context. Books, O'Reilly and
others, fill in a lot of the context but, for me, still require a
certain amount of additional research.

Note that the "apropos" command is fairly friendly (as friendly
as anything in Linux is toward newcomers). Entering "apropos
<something>" returns a list of things that are (kinda, sorta)
related to <something>.

I've found the denizens of comp.os.linux.misc to be quite helpful
to a newcomer.

For simple questions ("how do I do <thing>") be prepared to get
replies like "man <totally-non-obvious-command>" ("man" is the
command that displays the documentation (such as there is) for
the command).

For more complicated questions try to describe what you're trying
to accomplish and what resources (disk space, hardware, software)
you have available. The more clearly-defined your goal the better
the responses will be.

If ( *when* ) you get stuck, describe the situation and the
unsuccessful steps you've taken to resolve it. The clearer the
description the better the answers will be. The denizens of
the newsgroup will be more inclined to answer if you attempt
to resolve the situation yourself before asking for help.

The learning curve for Linux is pretty steep. There are
several attitudes that seem to to be held by those at the
top of the mountain toward those of us who are struggling
up: condescention ("Why, it's perfectly obvious to the most
casual observer that <gibberish>. Put your computer back in
the box and return it for a refund 'cause you're too stupid
to own a computer"), curtness (one-word or -sentence answers),
and helpfulness.

One thing that hinders those of us with mastery of one or more
operating systems or other technical subjects can be likened to
the old-dog-new-trick problem. It's not that we *can't* learn
new things, it's just that we grow frustrated ("dammit, I can
get a zVM system running starting with the bare hardware and
an install tape; why does this <characterization omitted> thing
have to be so illogically designed and incomprehensibly documented,
where it's documented at all?")

Hope that this helps, and remember, it's just my two zorkmids' worth.

--
-- Marten Kemp
(Fix name and ISP to reply)
-=-=-
.... Sleep is a symptom of CDD. (Caffeine Deficit Disorder)
* TagZilla 0.059 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org
 
M

ms

mike said:
(e-mail address removed) wrote in
But I said I'm not prepared for a learning mountain, I'm pushing 70 and not
ready to tackle a life's work. But I have put out loadsa time and money on
mags etc, and blood, toil, tears and sweat... well sorta. I'm prepared for
moderate difficulty. And I hate being beaten.

But attempting the impossible is more depressing than ignoring it.

Oh, well, Fred Langa says puppylinux is worth a shot...

mike

Mike, I've been there, being somewhat older, and I bet a lot more tired. I don't like
a serious learning curve to use any program. It usually turns out there's a better way.

I will try some GUI Linux just to do it, as windows does what I need.

Mike Sa
 
M

ms

Mark said:
Surprising. Not exactly mainstream hardware, but still...

Is this the same machine that Ubuntu installs on okay? If so, the new
Dapper-based version that will be out mid-year might do the trick.
Mark, my next computer is W2K/SP4, 2.5 GHZ, 512 MB RAM, 128 MB VRAM, 56 KB modem,
will have FF 1.5 browser. How does this sound for your earlier words "flawless
installation" of SimplyMepis? If I have serious install issues, how the program
finally works doesn't matter to me.

TIA

Mike Sa
 
J

john

How about this simple elementary equation you=stupid.

You sound like a programmer. Programmers are not known to be very
imaginative.... higher than average IQ perhaps, but when it comes to global
understanding, and right brain function, they are bright as a bolder.

I have no intention of trolling, idot... I just want to rant about trash!
Dont like it? Dont read it!

--
Disclaimer: This info is given "as is".
If you do not like the content or attitude of my posts,
please put me on your ignore list or don't read my posts.

--
 
D

dszady

(e-mail address removed) wrote in

I'd like to think so; I took up the piano as a retirement project, but
found it very tough as my hands are wired up all wrong, though I waltzed
the theory exams.

But I find linux has such a fog around it, the reading material is
incomprehensible to me, the newsgroups only flame you,

[...]
For a handy reference Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition
http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz

I don't even go to Linux newsgroups. Other people have gone through the
'flame gauntlet' which solves that problem. Here is the solution
which has solved every problem I've had:

Google Groups > Advanced Groups Search > Find messages (I usually use the
"with all of the words" search) next !important > Group
Return only messages from the group at this location >
Type in *linux*
HTH
 
M

Mark Warner

ms said:
Mark, my next computer is W2K/SP4, 2.5 GHZ, 512 MB RAM, 128 MB VRAM,
56 KB modem, will have FF 1.5 browser. How does this sound for your
earlier words "flawless installation" of SimplyMepis? If I have
serious install issues, how the program finally works doesn't matter
to me.

I can't guarantee anything, but I suspect there should be no problem.
I've installed it on an old K-6/333MHz-128MB, an AMD XP2000
1.67GHz-512MB (later 1024MB), and a PIII 800MHz-128MB Dell Latitude C600
laptop. All installations were "flawless". YMMV.

Understand that you will most likely encounter difficulties getting your
modem to work and connect. That's not the fault of Linux. Most cheap
"winmodems" rely on the Windows operating system to carry out a lot of
their functions. Obviously that can't be done with a Linux operating
system. The usual fix is to use an external serial or USB modem.

Craig's hardware, while not exactly bleeding edge, can't be considered
mainstream, either. I'm still surprised that he ran into difficulties.
Then again, I'm clueless about serial ATA, and what difference that
might make during the installation. Hopefully he'll be able to offer
some insight. Sounds like the Live CD operated fine. <shrug>
 
C

Craig

Mark said:
Surprising. Not exactly mainstream hardware, but still...

Is this the same machine that Ubuntu installs on okay? If so, the new
Dapper-based version that will be out mid-year might do the trick.

Yea,

I was doubly surprised since this is the same platform that boots, loads
& runs Debian 3.1r1, Ubuntu 5.04 & 5.10 w/o a hitch.

If I hit F2 during the install, I'm getting some errors (don't ask, I
fergit). I thought they might've been due to a bad download but the
md5's on the iso's match. When I've time I'll pop over to mepislover's
and give a holler.

thanks,
-Craig
p.s. Mark, I've sent you an email from my gmail account (munged above).
 
J

jmatt

dszady said:
For a handy reference Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition
http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz

I don't even go to Linux newsgroups. Other people have gone through the
'flame gauntlet' which solves that problem. Here is the solution
which has solved every problem I've had:

Google Groups > Advanced Groups Search > Find messages (I usually use the
"with all of the words" search) next !important > Group
Return only messages from the group at this location >
Type in *linux*

Thanks for that info dszady
 
M

ms

Mark said:
ms wrote: snip

Understand that you will most likely encounter difficulties getting your
modem to work and connect. That's not the fault of Linux. Most cheap
"winmodems" rely on the Windows operating system to carry out a lot of
their functions. Obviously that can't be done with a Linux operating
system. The usual fix is to use an external serial or USB modem.
Thanks for the info, Mark. Your comment on winmodem, IIRC, isn't this a built-in
unit on the motherboard? Mine is a separate card, needs separate install.

Comment?

Mike Sa
 

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