The FREE .Net Framework means NOTHING IF SQL SERVER...........

[steve]

i can tell by your train of thought in your writing that you are around 14
years old. you need some cohesion throughout and having supplimental details
(maybe even some facts) now and again really helps bring your point
home...but i'm sure your 8th grade teacher hasn't gotten to that discussion
yet...school has just started again so i'll give you some slack there.

this is the unqualified statement i like best...

It's no wonder why developers are out of work, they have NO concept of what
it takes to start a real or traditional business.

hmmm...i didn't know we were out of work...and, i wonder what kind of
businesses we've been developing for all this time...and, being developers,
i always knew those college MIT classes were wholly inadequate seeing as how
developing software solutions and starting businesses go hand-in-hand!

btw...i think i may just break your mold here:

software developer 8 years.
c, c++, vb6, vb.net, php, javascript, bash, csh, ksh, vbscript, tcl/tk...and
of course, pearl.

own my own company www.renderbar.com

company runs on xp professional using iis as the web server, msde as my
database, and php as the html pre-processor. all i had to pay was about $115
bucks for the operating system and a few hours of development time. i don't
know how much more of a "production environment" you'd like but this setup
has allowed me to take more than a few overseas vacations in the past two
years.

my 0.02 to you is to study grammar and the art of professional writing
(throw in some debating 101 while your at it) first of all. next, wait until
you're old enough to work legally. then when you have the mental facilities,
break into the it field and work at a solid company for a few years.

i think you'll find that the job dictates the tool...and your boss will be
deciding both for you for a number of years...at least until you quite
esposing dribble like this.

hth,

steve

 

[S. Walters]

Microsoft has listened to me before...they do LISTEN..that is a known fact,
even on huge architectural issues...even twice, in one form or another.

lol... 'delusions of grandeur'

well, because it is really funny to read this thread I need to get my
three ha'p'orth to this topic...

1. I apologize if am offending you, but do you really think anybody out
here needs your postings? Do they help anybody? Do they lead to a new
and great idea?

2. Ever thought about different business strategies? No company is like
the other and there are companies and startups which can rely on MySQL
and PHP and there are companies and startups which better build their
network on a Microsoft-base.
It does not only depend on the budget - the biggest cost factor is
definitely not Microsoft licensing program (especially when you refer to
small companies where just a few licenses are needed!) - It depends more
on what the company is intending to do with its infrastructure!

To cut a long way short, MySQL+PHP, SQL-Server and MSDE all coexist!
Yes, there are groups in which a MySQL system would be enough and a
Microsoft-System is used - but think in longer terms than just one or
two years - or do you hope your startup will be ever a startup?! Never
heard of long-term investments....?

3. Please man, please give REAL arguments why all other guys in this
thread here are wrong - or if you cant do so - do not bother the world
anymore....

 

[Kieran Benton]

And mySQL would be?

I think his point was that MSDE would not be easy for MOM and POP to
use?




----------------------------

We contemplate eternity
Beneath the vast indifference of heaven

- Warren Zevon

 

[Matt T.]

Pardon me, but how many "Mom and Pop" businesses actually host their
own web site? I believe most will be signing up with a hosting
company, where SQL Server will be an additional cost, but certainly
well below $4,000. More likely in the $20 - $40 range.

 

[Skip]

lol... 'delusions of grandeur'

well, because it is really funny to read this thread I need to get my
three ha'p'orth to this topic...

1. I apologize if am offending you, but do you really think anybody out
here needs your postings? Do they help anybody? Do they lead to a new
and great idea?

I wonder how many people sit and analyze their intended post following
your criteria, then decide if they should post it or not. If so,
your's would have to be the first rule successfully applied to the
internet.


----------------------------

We contemplate eternity
Beneath the vast indifference of heaven

- Warren Zevon

 

[Skip]

I think his point was that MSDE would not be easy for MOM and POP to
use?

PLEASE READ ALL THE REPLIES TO YOUR ORIGINAL POST MORE CLOSELY.

You seem to be entirely ignorant of the MSDE product - which fills the exact market niche you are bleating
about.

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/

AJ

----------------------------

We contemplate eternity
Beneath the vast indifference of heaven

- Warren Zevon

 

[John Kraft]

<snip> incessant whiney rant about the cost of SQLServer <snip>

Yes, SQLServer is expensive. But, who cares. If you don't want to
spend the money on SQLServer, you can still use any other database out
there that supports ODBC or OleDb. It's only about 2 lines of code more
to work with these databases. Then, when your company grows up, you can
purchase SQLServer and make your life 2 lines easier.

John

 

[Guest]

YEA...why NOT reduce the price of SQL Server?

They reduced the PRICE of Windows Server 2003 ...also known as - Web Edition


Now, what's your point......?

 

[Guest]

READ THE other LICENSE for Standard SQL SERVER....THEN compare that to
MSDE...

Where in the MSDE does it say that you can use it for a PRODUCTION
ENVIRONMENT?

You can't even use the Personal or Developer in a PRODUCTION ENVIRONMENT?

READ CAREFULLY
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/howtobuy/msdeuse.asp

"Using MSDE does not reduce or eliminate the need for client access licenses
(CALs) when interacting with SQL Server 2000 Standard Edition or SQL Server
2000 Enterprise Edition in a production environment. "


Mom and Pop is paying the developer to make them a web site for what?
A P.R.O.D.U.C.T.I.O.N. ENVIRONMENT

So let's see.... Is the SQL Server going to web accessible or should it sit
behind something?

The costs of computers is SO SMALL, you could give MOM and POP a GREAT
Deal....something they can physically see and touch

See what I am getting here....MOM and POP are going to have the own static
IP address at $69/month plus computer that THEY OWN.....

Now if there need to be maintenance, who needs to go there? Say if Mom and
Pop want to start working with it......say if they want to make another
database as a test that they can work and learn with.....

You need to let MOM and POP know that THEY AREN"T TIED TO YOU, MR. GREEDY
DEVELOPER.

Ever heard of cell phone plans that don't require 2 year contracts
commitments......

Ever hear of HOME DEPOT? "The DO-IT-YOURSELF" Store....

Handy-Men, Carpenters and plumbers and even electricians used to think they
were gods....NOT SO...

 

[Guest]

YEAH!!!! AND..........

Would MOM and POP need Analysis services?????

Would it be all that BAD if mom and pop paid for what they needed?

Same with Windows 2003 Web Edition....only buy what's needed.

 

[Tony Rogerson]

That has been reduced because it has cut down functionality in comparison to
Windows 2000.

 

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Hello,

Be gone peasant! Microsoft doesn't care if you can't afford
their products. If you find it too expensive go and use an
alternative (I'm sure there must be something out there).

You can use Oracle, but I think it won't be cheaper.

;-)

 

[Guest]

You know what?

All the stuff about memory management or
object inheritance were the same excuses that was said before VB6 came
around........

That same stuff you keep talking with development cycles sounds a lot like
the complexity of ORACLE before SQL Server came around and

Sooner or later.....do it yourself enterprise web app......

If you are a profitable company, why can't you afford even a standard
license of SQL Server then?
Heck, why are you on PHP then?

 

[steve]

you know...not to belittle the "do-it-yourself'ers" out there (i'm one too).
there's just a slight bit more you have to know about developing software
than can be learned at a home depot in-house instructional session on tiling
your floor or replacing your toilet.

it doesn't matter if you admit it or even care to acknowledge the fact that
mom/pop *are* at the mercy of what the developer dictates. they'll either
buy the software that will do what they need or they'll hire someone to
either create something from scatch or modify the product they bought. the
ficticious mom/pop you keep referring to could care less about development
cycles...they want to run their business and have everything grow with their
success. rarely will mom/pop place the details of memory management or
object inheritance over how they can produce more sales.

your quote about msde just proves my assertion about you being around 14
years old. you don't have full command of content mastery. if you attempt to
interact w/ sql server 2K in whatever version, msde will not act as a
pass-thru...meaning you will still need cals. that is no support for stating
that msde is unfit for production evironments...let me say again, i run a
very profitable company and use msde as my db of choice to power my php web
site. msde has been doing well in a "production" environment for two years
for me. there's nothing sacred in the word "production" and there's no way
to distinguish a version of your application as such...there's no compiler
option to "compile to production code". you can set variables or save date
in a db that tells your application to run in a certain mode...but sql
server/msde doesn't care. production is simply a ficticious
location/workspace/whatever where your software and db changes/updates
should have been tested to their utmost and be as fully debugged as
possible.

btw, every entity, either person or business, is greedy...that's the basis
of human nature. don't think your immune. the rule will always be that you
will only be paid what someone is willing to part with. if mom/pop don't
understand that then they shouldn't be in business...i charge what i believe
my time is worth and sell my time to those who will either meet that amount
or exceed it...greedy developer...yep...smart business...yep...should i be
noble and charge less and tell my kids they can't go to college...hell
no...they'll go to harvard.

i can't believe you've wasted everyone's time here...cross-posting
everywhere...offering nothing. when you're a bit older and a bit more
mature...come back and *participate* in newsgroups rather than trying to
pick fights with wits as dim as your chances of swaying oppinion here. since
you may have a hard time with your reading comprehension...that means,
here's a quarter; call someone who cares!

steve

btw...for your sake, i hope you are a wee teen...i'd hate to think of an
adult being so mentally afflicted with disfunction as what i've been reading
here.

 

[Lucas Tam]

***THE CATCH 22 ***
What good is a Free .NET Framework and a low cost Windows 2003
Server-Web Edition, if SQL Server costs more than the server and ISP
network connection and amount to at sometimes at least 50% of the
total costs when developers have had to drop their hourly rate in
half?

I use MySQL with .NET! : )

 

[Lucas Tam]

And mySQL would be?

If you have the GIU, it's as hard as MSSQL.

 

[Lucas Tam]

JUST how and what is the .NET developer going to Mom and Pop when
PHP/MySQL developer is always going to beat them on price when the Mom
and pop DON'T have to RISK and ARM AND A LEG for something that might
not pan out.

The .NET developer can opt to use MySQL instead of MSSQL.

 

[Lucas Tam]

3. If you know mySQL/like it/don't mind putting up with some of
its
idiosyncrancies/have a Linux box serving the site etc. etc. then by
all means use it. Just stop bleating about it. And what the hell are
you on about anyway? You can barely write a newsgroup post correctly
let alone get Microsoft to listen to you about architectural changes.

MySQL works just fine on Win32. I don't see why you guys are arguing MSSQL
vs. MySQL vs. Windows vs. Linux.

It's basically a non-issue. MySQL works fine with .NET. So if MSSQL is too
expensive, MSDE insufficent, then use MySQL + .NET driver.

 

[Lucas Tam]

If MSDE was SO USABLE in a PRODUCTION ENVIRONMENT, why do a majority of
startups use PHP and MySQL?

You do realize that MySQL works fine with .NET.

I really don't get this PHP vs. ASP.NET vs. mySQL vs. MSSQL issue.

The database doesn't matter because they all work with .NET : )

 

[steve]

amen!

i'd be much more worried about the accessibilty of my site, its content, and
graphical design.