secondary AV program

B

badgolferman

http://www.av-comparatives.org/seiten/ergebnisse_2005_02.php

I am interested in deciphering this table at the AV Comparatives web
page. In particular I want a second AV which is free to back up the
eTrust EZ Antivirus that is the resident AV on my WXP Pro SP2 computer.

It seems to me Antivir is slightly superior to AVG and Avast and
slightly inferior to BitDefender in Total and Without other OS ratings.
However in the Windows viruses row it appears to be a dog.

I have used all four before and would lean toward BitDefender but it
loads lots of services that were a pain to disable. And each time I
ran a manual scan those services had to be shut down again.

Which free AV would you use as a backup for manual scans only?
 
A

Art

http://www.av-comparatives.org/seiten/ergebnisse_2005_02.php

I am interested in deciphering this table at the AV Comparatives web
page. In particular I want a second AV which is free to back up the
eTrust EZ Antivirus that is the resident AV on my WXP Pro SP2 computer.

It seems to me Antivir is slightly superior to AVG and Avast and
slightly inferior to BitDefender in Total and Without other OS ratings.
However in the Windows viruses row it appears to be a dog.

I have used all four before and would lean toward BitDefender but it
loads lots of services that were a pain to disable. And each time I
ran a manual scan those services had to be shut down again.

Which free AV would you use as a backup for manual scans only?

Trend Micro's Sysclean is pretty good. There are a couple of free
av that use the powerful KAV scan engine which lack clean/delete
capability. Do a Google for Antidote and MWAV. The problem is
updating the latter two. There are ways of doing it though,
which I'm not going to get into. And Antidote is updated
weekly, I believe, so you can just re-d/l it every Friday when
it's updated.

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg
 
D

David H. Lipman

From: "badgolferman" <[email protected]>

| http://www.av-comparatives.org/seiten/ergebnisse_2005_02.php
|
| I am interested in deciphering this table at the AV Comparatives web
| page. In particular I want a second AV which is free to back up the
| eTrust EZ Antivirus that is the resident AV on my WXP Pro SP2 computer.
|
| It seems to me Antivir is slightly superior to AVG and Avast and
| slightly inferior to BitDefender in Total and Without other OS ratings.
| However in the Windows viruses row it appears to be a dog.
|
| I have used all four before and would lean toward BitDefender but it
| loads lots of services that were a pain to disable. And each time I
| ran a manual scan those services had to be shut down again.
|
| Which free AV would you use as a backup for manual scans only?
|
| --
| No matter what happens someone will find a way to take it too seriously.

The following is a utility for; Trend, Sophos and McAfee.


Download MULTI_AV.EXE from the URL --
http://www.ik-cs.com/programs/virtools/Multi_AV.exe

It is a self-extracting ZIP file that contains the Kixtart Script Interpreter {
http://kixtart.org Kixtart is CareWare } three batch files, five Kixtart scripts, one Link
(.LNK) file, this PDF instruction file and two utilities; UNZIP.EXE and WGET.EXE. It will
simplify the process of using up to 3 different Anti Virus Command Line Scanners to remove
viruses and various other malware.

C:\AV-CLS\StartMenu.BAT -- { or Double-click on 'Start Menu' in C:\AV-CLS}
This will bring up the initial menu of choices and should be executed in Normal Mode. This
way all the components can be downloaded from each AV vendor’s web site.
The choices are; Sophos, Trend, McAfee, Exit the menu and Reboot the PC.

You can choose to go to each menu item and just download the needed files or you can
download the files and perform a scan in Normal Mode. Once you have downloaded the files
needed for each scanner you want to use, you should reboot the PC into Safe Mode [F8 key
during boot] and re-run the menu again and choose which scanner you want to run in Safe
Mode. It is suggested to run the scanners in both Safe Mode and Normal Mode.

When the menu is displayed hitting 'H' or 'h' will bring up a more comprehensive PDF help
file.

To use this utility, perform the following...
Execute; Multi_AV.exe { Note: You must use the default folder C:\AV-CLS }
Choose; Unzip
Choose; Close

Execute; C:\AV-CLS\StartMenu.BAT
{ or Double-click on 'Start Menu' in C:\AV-CLS }

NOTE: You may have to disable your software FireWall or allow WGET.EXE and/or FTP.EXE to go
through your FireWall to allow them to download the needed AV vendor related files.

* * * Please report back your results * * *
 
A

Art


Couldn't get it to work without downloading a couple of OCX files
that don't necessarily exist on Win 2K. Then when I scanned the
VTE folder, it double false alarmed on its own uninstaller ...
uninst.exe. It thought it might be Generic.Infector or
BAT.Dropper.unknown.

When I tried to update it, it told me I had to manually extract the
diownload of the cab to the VTE folder!

Never have seen such a buggy and clumsy piece of software.

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg
 
I

idbeholda

..... considering I didn't include them in there for bandwidth
concerns.... yeah, you would have to download them yourself. As for
the double false alarm, yes, I am fully aware of this. However, you
can manually adjust the heuristic scanning in heur.txt to avoid that
"problem". As for the update.... all it requires is a simple point,
right click, extract here method. Not exactly buggy.
 
D

David H. Lipman

From: <[email protected]>

< snip >

| As for the update.... all it requires is a simple point,
| right click, extract here method. Not exactly buggy.
|

It would not be hard to program that at all.
 
A

Art

.... considering I didn't include them in there for bandwidth
concerns.... yeah, you would have to download them yourself.

Better include them. Few will go to the trouble I did trying to figure
out what was wrong, go search on the internet for them, etc. Very
bad, particularly since there was no info on this included that I
could find.
As for
the double false alarm, yes, I am fully aware of this. However, you
can manually adjust the heuristic scanning in heur.txt to avoid that
"problem".

Where's the info? Where's the Help? Why have such a stupid thing
as known false alarms hit users in the face immediately? Very bad.
And what skimpy info is available makes it seem as if the scanner
is strictly a sig scanner using CRC32 type hashes only. What is
the nature of the heuristics?
As for the update.... all it requires is a simple point,
right click, extract here method. Not exactly buggy.

True, buggy was not a good choice of word. What's a word
meaning "extremely user unfriendly with no help in sight"?

Don't take my bluntness in the wrong way. Look at it, if you
can, as constructive criticism. I've not abandoned the idea
of trying to evaluate your scanner and give it a fair shake,
but geeez! :) Please don't throw obvious stumbling blocks
in the way! There's no excuse for the things I've mentioned.

Now, please tell us something. You seem to be using a very
large number of hashes or sigs. Were alt the sigs established
on known tested and _viable_ samples?

And please quit top posting. It makes it too difficult for
others to follow our exhange. And I'll be damned if I'm
going to go to the trouble of fixing that up.

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg
 
I

idbeholda

Art said:
Better include them. Few will go to the trouble I did trying to figure
out what was wrong, go search on the internet for them, etc. Very
bad, particularly since there was no info on this included that I
could find.


Where's the info? Where's the Help? Why have such a stupid thing
as known false alarms hit users in the face immediately? Very bad.
And what skimpy info is available makes it seem as if the scanner
is strictly a sig scanner using CRC32 type hashes only. What is
the nature of the heuristics?


True, buggy was not a good choice of word. What's a word
meaning "extremely user unfriendly with no help in sight"?

Don't take my bluntness in the wrong way. Look at it, if you
can, as constructive criticism. I've not abandoned the idea
of trying to evaluate your scanner and give it a fair shake,
but geeez! :) Please don't throw obvious stumbling blocks
in the way! There's no excuse for the things I've mentioned.

Now, please tell us something. You seem to be using a very
large number of hashes or sigs. Were alt the sigs established
on known tested and _viable_ samples?

And please quit top posting. It makes it too difficult for
others to follow our exhange. And I'll be damned if I'm
going to go to the trouble of fixing that up.

Art


http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg
 
I

idbeholda

Art said:
Better include them. Few will go to the trouble I did trying to figure
out what was wrong, go search on the internet for them, etc. Very
bad, particularly since there was no info on this included that I
could find.


Where's the info? Where's the Help? Why have such a stupid thing
as known false alarms hit users in the face immediately? Very bad.
And what skimpy info is available makes it seem as if the scanner
is strictly a sig scanner using CRC32 type hashes only. What is
the nature of the heuristics?


True, buggy was not a good choice of word. What's a word
meaning "extremely user unfriendly with no help in sight"?

Don't take my bluntness in the wrong way. Look at it, if you
can, as constructive criticism. I've not abandoned the idea
of trying to evaluate your scanner and give it a fair shake,
but geeez! :) Please don't throw obvious stumbling blocks
in the way! There's no excuse for the things I've mentioned.

Now, please tell us something. You seem to be using a very
large number of hashes or sigs. Were alt the sigs established
on known tested and _viable_ samples?

And please quit top posting. It makes it too difficult for
others to follow our exhange. And I'll be damned if I'm
going to go to the trouble of fixing that up.

Art


http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

If I did include the external files (richtx32.ocx, msinet.ocx,
flash.ocx, msvbm60.dll), that would add almost 2 extra MB to the
download. For users on a dialup connection, that seems a bit
unreasonable to me, especially since most of the computers I've
installed this on already have the required runtimes. I know for a
fact that most of the computer users aren't computer literate, however,
when they come across something like a "missing msvbm60.dll" error,
chances are, they'll probably have a good idea that they need that dll.
As it said in the technical informatino page, this program is mainly
designed for network administrators and software developers, but can
also be used on a home computer. This alone inherently states that
you'll have to have at least some basic technical expertise to
understand in detail how it works. Aside from that, if you have the
runtimes, all you have to do is point and click... the interface was
made to be self explanatory. I don't think it can get much more
simplistic than that. And I believe the term you're looking for is
"Non-Drool Proof" (ie non user friendly).

As for the heuristics... open heur.txt and look at the pattern for at
least a few seconds. Obviously, the number right above the name is the
sensitivity indicator. If you want a more in-depth explanation of it,
I would suggest you download the source code and start reading it.

http://69.10.149.234/~idbehold/vte/VTE.HTM

And yes, I do have a help page up now.

As for the heuristics, they are based off of simple string patterns
that are found in almost every virus/worm/trojan that you'll come
across, and they also contain common API functions that virii tend to
use (For reference I'm referring to Native Executables, not Portable
Executables). And keep in mind, the heuristic scanning included may
not always indicate the presence of a virus, just suspicious looking
API calls or strings. Hence the term "heuristics".

If you've read the technical information page, yes, the database
consists of crc32 hash signatures, and they have been tested on viable
samples (see zoo.htm for the whole story). If anyone is going to
complain about the fact that I will allow people to obtain copies of
it, I really don't want to hear your incessant moaning. There was a
reason it was up to begin with, and that was to prove the project was
not a hoax.

And if you're wondering why the updates are so infrequent, there's a
reason why: I work 40+ hours a week doing fast food service.
 
A

Art

On 14 Jul 2005 12:42:25 -0700, (e-mail address removed) wrote:

And if you're wondering why the updates are so infrequent, there's a
reason why: I work 40+ hours a week doing fast food service.

Thanks for your response. Since it's not intended for home users
I'll not be evaluating it any futher.

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg
 

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