Search Incomplete

[Brian Mailman]

XP
FP 2002
http://www.jewishfood-list.com

I have the search component on this page:
http://www.jewishfood-list.com/recipes/recipe_index.html

and it's been coming up with incomplete results. That is, I type in
"spinach" into the slot and it only returns 13 results. Same with other
known words.

I _have_ recalculated the hyperlinks (several times); I've removed the
..btr files from my local web, recalculated and published and
recalculated again... no luck.

This just started last week, and there's nothing I've done differently
(that I can think of).

Erf!

B/

 

[Brian Mailman]

Fruther questions -- would this misfiring of the component mean the
extensions are corrupted? Does anyone think that deleting the remote
web and republishing the entire local web from my hard disk might help?

B/

 

[Brian Mailman]

Apparently, I've managed to stump the MVPs

OK, I've removed and reinstalled the extensions.

I've republished the entire site from my hard disk.

I've run "Reports" and fixed up any broken or unlinked files on the
remote web. I've recalculated hyperlinks after that.

The search results are STILL incomplete (that is, not every page with a
search term is coming up).

Does anyone have any ideas? Has this ever occurred? Seems weird to me,
the search component should either work or not work, not just work
incompletely.

B/

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

Ask your host to deleted and recreate the Index Catalog for your site.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

 

[Brian Mailman]

Thanks... it's Interland. The fellow I just spoke to said he "didn't
have the tools" to do that, but he'd kick it up a notch to 'systems
administration.' No estimate on when that would happen "could be 10,
15, 35 minutes; could be 24-48 hours." Sheesh.

Anyway, more to follow.

B/

 

[Stefan B Rusynko]

I suspect part of the problem may be All of your pages are illegally named
as in http://www.jewishfood-list.com/recipes/appetizers/&appetizer_index.html
The Ampersand (&) in a URL is reserved for name pairs parameters passed in a page as in
http://www.jewishfood-list.com/recipes/appetizers/appetizer_index.html?X=somevalue&Y=someothervalue

Rename all your file names to remove the &

See
http://twist.lib.uiowa.edu/webclass/lectures/lecture03a.html
and
http://developer.netscape.com/viewsource/goodman_url_pass/goodman_url_pass.html

--




| Thanks... it's Interland. The fellow I just spoke to said he "didn't
| have the tools" to do that, but he'd kick it up a notch to 'systems
| administration.' No estimate on when that would happen "could be 10,
| 15, 35 minutes; could be 24-48 hours." Sheesh.
|
| Anyway, more to follow.
|
| B/
|
| "Thomas A. Rowe" wrote:
| >
| > Ask your host to deleted and recreate the Index Catalog for your site.
| >
| > --
| > ==============================================
| > Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
| > WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
| >
| > FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
| > ==============================================
| > To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
| > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| >
| > > Apparently, I've managed to stump the MVPs
| > >
| > > OK, I've removed and reinstalled the extensions.
| > >
| > > I've republished the entire site from my hard disk.
| > >
| > > I've run "Reports" and fixed up any broken or unlinked files on the
| > > remote web. I've recalculated hyperlinks after that.
| > >
| > > The search results are STILL incomplete (that is, not every page with a
| > > search term is coming up).
| > >
| > > Does anyone have any ideas? Has this ever occurred? Seems weird to me,
| > > the search component should either work or not work, not just work
| > > incompletely.
| > >
| > > B/
| > >
| > > Brian Mailman wrote:
| > > >
| > > > Fruther questions -- would this misfiring of the component mean the
| > > > extensions are corrupted? Does anyone think that deleting the remote
| > > > web and republishing the entire local web from my hard disk might help?
| > > >
| > > > B/
| > > >
| > > > Brian Mailman wrote:
| > > > >
| > > > > XP
| > > > > FP 2002
| > > > > http://www.jewishfood-list.com
| > > > >
| > > > > I have the search component on this page:
| > > > > http://www.jewishfood-list.com/recipes/recipe_index.html
| > > > >
| > > > > and it's been coming up with incomplete results. That is, I type in
| > > > > "spinach" into the slot and it only returns 13 results. Same with other
| > > > > known words.
| > > > >
| > > > > I _have_ recalculated the hyperlinks (several times); I've removed the
| > > > > .btr files from my local web, recalculated and published and
| > > > > recalculated again... no luck.
| > > > >
| > > > > This just started last week, and there's nothing I've done differently
| > > > > (that I can think of).
| > > > >
| > > > > Erf!
| > > > >
| > > > > B/

 

[Brian Mailman]

Thanks, I'll go through the links when I get a chance. But a few
comments...

1. Only the indices and subindices have the & character. It's because I
wanted it to appear at the head/top of a folder so I could get to it
immediately. It really helps when opening a folder to stick a new
recipe into it. None of the other files have the &.

1a. I can certainly change the character as I roam throughout the
site, is there one that you would recommend that would be appropriate
for my purpose?

2. I've had this naming schema since the site was begun, in March of
2000. There's not been this difficulty until last week (soon to be two
weeks ago).

3. It would be great if the search component did not pick up the
indices and subindices because of the & but it's always retrieved them.
From what I've seen in this newsgroup it's not possible to tailor the
search component to do this unless they were in a subweb, obviously
impossible.

Still waiting to hear from Interland about recreating the Index
Catalogue almost 24 hour later.

B/

 

[Brian Mailman]

OK. Just received an email from them, and apparently they are refusing
to do what was requested. Snipping a whole bunch of nonsense from the
email (the person responding apparently hadn't read the tickets because
he thought the search compnent was out altogether):

"Anyway on our 2000 server Front Page uses webbots and not index server
for search
functionality..."

I'm supposed to receive a phone call tomorrow sometime when they
"resolve the issue." What do I tell them in response to that? I'm
fairly sure they're *sort of* right because I remember seeing somethng
about "WAIS" (whatever that is) and not "IIS" but it doesn't seem
correct.

B/

 

[Brian Mailman]

Yet again I receive the same answer from their tech non-support (I
*specifically* requested a phone callback from a tech instead of email,
was assured that would happen and it didn't). Again, they wrote:

"...As previously indicated, since our Windows 2000 servers use Web Bots
instead of the Index Server, there is no index catalog to delete."

I've seen dozens, if not hundreds of times, advice from many of the MVPs
about the index catalog. It's difficult to believe that it suddenly
doesn't exist.

True or false? Is Interland feeding me a line?

B/

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

On Windows 2000 Server, the host could choose not to use Index Server which is the default and force
the extensions to use the WAIS Text search engine.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

 

[Brian Mailman]

OK. And if this is the case, as it seems to be, what can I do to get
the search component to work completely again? This (the incomplete
results on a search) began recently and I've done nothing differently,
no new setups, no new anything.

To recap, I've uninstalled and reinstalled the extensions. Republished
the entire site from my hard disk, overwriting all the files.
Recalculated the hyperlinks *many* times. Reinstalled the search
component. I'm reaching the end of my wits.

B/

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

When you say incomplete results, what do you mean exactly, examples?

When using the WAIS search engine, there is a group words that are ignored, and this group can not
be changed.

Also the host may need to check the WAIS configuration on the specific server:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;201524&Product=fp2kse

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

 

[Brian Mailman]

Incomplete results means it's not finding all the recipes with the
search term.

For example, "spinach" yields only 13 results. "cheesecake" only 3 and
you can see there's an entire section of them. "tarragon" will yield
"no documents found" and can you imagine a site with 4500 recipes and no
tarragon? <G>.

If I ever get ahold of a human who actually can do something (Interland
seems to shield the customers from them) I will point this article at
them.

Thanks for working with me on this... I'm sorry to be so painful about
it.

B/

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

With 4500 recipes, it is time (or long past) to consider moving this to a database driven
application where you can avoid this type of problem.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

 

[Brian Mailman]

Yeah, I know. I'm not being sarcastic, I do know. And it should have
been done to begin with instead of a flat-file system (an error made by
the original professionally-paid designer who recommended such a
horror). In the SF Bay area it will cost many thousands of dollars at
this point to convert it and those just ain't in the treasury at the
moment. It is planned, as soon as I can get it together to go nonprofit
so contributions are tax-deductible, but in the meantime "this type of
problem" has arrived and I've got to try to figure out--with the
assistance of the MVPs--how to deal with it.

I did just have a conversation with someone at Interland (alas, not in a
position to do anything about it) and he recognized the difference
between a web component and a web server. He had me email the link you
provided to him and he said he'd pass it on to the "systems" people.

B/

 

[Guest]

Brian,
Try taking a look here..... http://atomz.com. It may suit your purpose, up to 500 pages searched FREE. Great price.
I use it at recipesofhawaii.com if you would like to see how it looks.

----- Brian Mailman wrote: -----

Yeah, I know. I'm not being sarcastic, I do know. And it should have
been done to begin with instead of a flat-file system (an error made by
the original professionally-paid designer who recommended such a
horror). In the SF Bay area it will cost many thousands of dollars at
this point to convert it and those just ain't in the treasury at the
moment. It is planned, as soon as I can get it together to go nonprofit
so contributions are tax-deductible, but in the meantime "this type of
problem" has arrived and I've got to try to figure out--with the
assistance of the MVPs--how to deal with it.

I did just have a conversation with someone at Interland (alas, not in a
position to do anything about it) and he recognized the difference
between a web component and a web server. He had me email the link you
provided to him and he said he'd pass it on to the "systems" people.

MaB

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

Brian,

Drop me an email, it will cost you no where near as much as you think.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

 

[Brian Mailman]

Houston, we have ignition!!

It turns out they (Interland) thought the site was being hosted on a
Win2003 server and they said something about "not being able to install
the FP extensions" on it because "Microsoft doesn't allow that. ???
Which is probably not true, and what they should have said to begin with
instead of the non-sense they were spouting but never mind any of that,
things are working now and that's what matters. That and the fact I'm
not going to be charged with multiple homicides...

Once they got over the fact they didn't have the site on that server
they found the extensions were broken; apparently, what was broken could
only be fixed by them reinstalling them on their side. My reinstalling
them from "the admin panel" just put a new copy with the brokenness on
it (I'm guessing, they told me what needed to be repaired on the
extensions could only be repaired server-side).

Thanks to the MVPs who spent time and energy on this issue. Your hard
work and willingness to spend your volunteer time on this group is
vastly appreciated.

B/