Rip-off artists

J

JAD

no wrong venue...but before you start/contribute a controversial topic as
this, you should know more than what's printed in what are a KNOWN bias and
'propagandic' source/s
 
J

JAD

LMAO, let me guess, a democrat!!!!

You probably think that movie is "truth" also, rotflmao. Some parts
are true, no doubt, media clips ans the like, however, much of the
commentary plays to an audience of substantial size.
niether.... my way of thinking doesn't fit the extreme narrow mindedness of
a 2 party system.
In order for a movie to get the 'exposure' it needs one must play the 'game'
in order to get the point-word out.
 
K

Kelly Humphries

Thank you ;)

You're quite welcome. Since we're apparently going to fly into uncharted
Off-Topic Land (I hope we brought enough parachutes for everyone else),
I'm glad this little corner of the thread can be something of a civilized
outpost...
What makes you think only that class is suspect? It just happens to be
the one under discussion because the earlier poster brought it up in
reply to my request for evidence.

No, I wasn't trying to say that *only* that type of media was suspect.
But yes, it is the media that somehow became the focus of this thread, so
that's what I specifically mentioned.
While film can, and is, used to record events it is seldom, if ever,
seen uncut, unedited, and without comment; and certainly not in what is
colloquially called a 'movie'. The closest thing would be the so called
"documentary," although Michael Moore may have, single handed, destroyed
the meaning of that term.

This is a claim I've read from others as well, but still don't see
happening. If you mean that Moore is bending the truth to fit his agenda,
yes that's certainly happening. This may lead to a one-sided "talk radio"
mentality taking over the documentary genre, but the genre itself is still
going strong and doesn't need to follow MM's example to succeed.

There are recent documentaries about everything from the Ramones to
Broadway's golden age to gay marriage to a televised public bus hijacking
in Rio, and now there's even a sub-genre of documentaries popping up to
respond to anything Moore says or does. Putting aside the politics of
individual filmmakers, the MPAA certainly has no shortage of films from
which to choose nominees for the documentary category.
As a friend once commented about Jurassic Park "the special effects are
so good you can't tell the real dinosaurs from the fake ones."

LOL. No, I'm not THAT far gone, but I do know that seeing a Congressman
asked on camera about sending his offspring to Iraq, and seeing his silent
response ("uhhhh...aren't I supposed to have security around me at all
times?" he must've been thinking), is one small truth in a larger picture
that might not be as truthful or straightforward. And while I hadn't woke
up that morning saying, "geez, I wonder if public executions actually DO
happen?" it turns out that seeing one on a movie screen was more than
enough proof to convince me of the answer.

Anything from the newspaper to a movie to radio to the web is going to
have little bits of fact mixed in with whatever else was handy. I don't
think dismissing the entire genre of film as a possible source would be
any smarter than going to the movies to catch up on world events.
Although I'm sure my grandpa if he were here would tell me about how it
used to be....
If you mean "not quite right" as in demented, then no. I didn't say
movies were demented but, rather, simply not necessarily a reliable, or
complete, image of reality. So "living in a movie" simply means one is
seeing things colored by that imperfect lens.

See, aren't you glad that we have so much in common on this? ;-) The "not
quite right," BTW, was referring to an instance where someone goes into
the theater with a critical eye and sees a new perspective, but is told
that what he saw couldn't possibly be true because it was a "movie."
That's not quite right.
I didn't say that something on "film," or even in a movie, couldn't be
real. I said "movies" weren't a "reliable source" with the point being
that just because you saw it in a movie doesn't necessarily make it so.

And, if you want, I'll bring over a couple of sticks and let you record
as we exchange memory and money as long as you give them back after the
filming is over ;)

damn. Thanks for the offer, but I guess it's back to newegg for me....

ta ta, see ya in the movies? :)
 
K

Kelly Humphries

Great point. That's the sort of response one expects when trying to
engage a leftist weenie in a meaningful debate.

LOL.

You know nothing about my job, my pay, my leftist weenie, or how much RAM
I have or want, and you also mistook a flippant comment ridiculing this
thread's original topic and poster and interpreted it as "whining." So
let me know when that "meaningful debate" shows up.
 
 

 notritenoteri

The fact that taking care of friends or whatever is the reality doesn't
make it a good thing. Michael Moore's movie may have been motivated by
profit but isn't that the American way? One might consider the film a
combination of altruism and capitalism. They are not mutually exclusive at
least to me but then I'm not a republican born again or otherwise.
 
S

soinie

|
|
| Let me guess, a moral majority Bush supporting fascist. And what is
| your point since you don't appear to be making any much like the
other
| fellow? Did you see the documentary? Probably not but your willing
| to comment on it based on Rush Limbaugh's opinion?

You must be a democrat

I saw the movie, and I saw it for what it really was, maybe you saw
something different. It is without doubt that the party in power will
be "taking care of friends and associates" during its tenure, this is
a truism with government.

That's what you got out of the documentary? Then you didn't see
"Farenheit 9/11".
 
S

soinie

Ah yes, in a dictatorial society where propaganda is a primary tool of
the ruling powers, then yes, the basis for such a movie might just be
propaganda rather than profit, I'd agree. Hitler's propaganda machine
had a very substantial budget. Now, what's your point? My post
suggested the primary driving force behind a movie is profit, yet
there are certainly other forces at work also. There are certainly
many reasons or motivations behind movies. Where a movie is marketed
in the fashion of the products of Hollywood, the primary motivation is
profit.

....99% of documetaries don't make any money so what's your point?
 
K

Kylesb

I believe your posting, if any, initiated the controversy of where the
profits went. Don't be coy. The only potential controversy
attributable to my comments was my opinion that movies are _primarily_
made for profit, other motivations being secondary. Perhaps your
sources are little more than sources that are "a KNOWN bias and
'propagandic' source/s" [sic].

--
Best regards,
Kyle
| no wrong venue...but before you start/contribute a controversial
topic as
| this, you should know more than what's printed in what are a KNOWN
bias and
| 'propagandic' source/s
|
| | > Please share with us your understanding of where the "profits"
went.
|
|
 
K

Kylesb

|
| >Ah yes, in a dictatorial society where propaganda is a primary tool
of
| >the ruling powers, then yes, the basis for such a movie might just
be
| >propaganda rather than profit, I'd agree. Hitler's propaganda
machine
| >had a very substantial budget. Now, what's your point? My post
| >suggested the primary driving force behind a movie is profit, yet
| >there are certainly other forces at work also. There are certainly
| >many reasons or motivations behind movies. Where a movie is
marketed
| >in the fashion of the products of Hollywood, the primary motivation
is
| >profit.
|
| ...99% of documetaries don't make any money so what's your point?

If those making such movies did not make a living therefrom, then such
movies would not come to exist. No one works for free, or am I alone
in this thought?

My point was very clear, that the genius behind this "documentary"
(and I use the term
"documentary" loosely here) was a target market of huge proportions, a
movie delivering a message that the "target market" yearned to
identify with. That the huge profit expectations were genuinely real.
I am not belittling the genius, I am admiring it. So real were the
profit expectations that the Weinstein brothers were willing to sever
their comfy Miramax relationship with Disney over the movie (numerous
media sources provide details of the breakup).

Fahrenheit 911 was not a movie targeting the teen summer movie goers,
nor the romantic movie goers, nor the "action/drama" movie
enthusiasts, nor the 18-40 male audience, this was a movie targeting
Democrats as potential viewers with a sure spill-over into the
Republican market segment as they would be curious as to the content
thereof. Of all the movies produced in recent decades, the potential
market size for this movie is perhaps the largest measurable by
"market group" categorization. Are you unable to rise above the
content and subject matter of the movie and be objective as to the
overall marketing expectations?
 
D

David Maynard

Kylesb said:
| Kylesb wrote:
|
| > | >
| > |
| > | I didn't say that something on "film," or even in a movie,
couldn't
| > be
| > | real. I said "movies" weren't a "reliable source" with the point
| > being that
| > | just because you saw it in a movie doesn't necessarily make it
so.
| >
| >
| > No truer words have been spoken about movies. Take Fahrenheit
911,
| > for example. What a genius maneuver to create a movie that bashes
the
| > current republican administration with a near certain expectation
that
| > about half the population (the democrats) were sure to want to see
the
| > movie either by renting or seeing it in a theater, and even more
to
| > the marketing genius, that republicans would want to see just to
know
| > what the democrats are watching and talking about. Some say the
movie
| > is a grand expose of the current administration, but as for me, I
say
| > the underlying genius of that movie is the guaranteed
audience/sales
| > the creator(s) surely envisioned. Don't ever think a movie is
made
| > purely for the artistic or "truthful" content therein. I believe
the
| > primary driving force behind any movie is the potential for
profits.
|
| I understand your cynicism and, of course, a lot of movies are
created for
| the purpose of making money but to conclude that is the sole
motivation is,
| IMO, just as short sighted as blindly trusting them to be fountains
of 'truth'.
|


Since you appear to have overlooked the specific language I carefully
chose, I'll quote myself: "I believe the primary driving force. . . ".
Now primary is just that, and there are secondary and tertiary driving
forces and so forth.

I didn't overlook it but I see how you arrive at the conclusion. Poor
choice of words on my part. Substitute "primary" for "sole" in my previous
message.
 
D

David Maynard

Kelly said:
You're quite welcome. Since we're apparently going to fly into uncharted
Off-Topic Land (I hope we brought enough parachutes for everyone else),
I'm glad this little corner of the thread can be something of a civilized
outpost...

I thank you again.
No, I wasn't trying to say that *only* that type of media was suspect.

I know you weren't. You were questioning why it appeared I meant 'that
one'. That was my cute way of saying it wasn't 'that' unique.
But yes, it is the media that somehow became the focus of this thread, so
that's what I specifically mentioned.

Well, it became the focus but that wasn't my intent. I was simply saying I
don't consider a 'movie' to be 'evidence'.

This is a claim I've read from others as well, but still don't see
happening. If you mean that Moore is bending the truth to fit his agenda,
yes that's certainly happening. This may lead to a one-sided "talk radio"
mentality taking over the documentary genre, but the genre itself is still
going strong and doesn't need to follow MM's example to succeed.

I would hope not and my comment was an exaggeration (and I didn't expect
anyone to take it at face value) for 'effect' since the topic, at this
stage, was the evidentiary value of "I saw it in a movie" and Moore's
seemed like a good example of one it's unwise to take as 'evidence'.

There are recent documentaries about everything from the Ramones to
Broadway's golden age to gay marriage to a televised public bus hijacking
in Rio, and now there's even a sub-genre of documentaries popping up to
respond to anything Moore says or does. Putting aside the politics of
individual filmmakers, the MPAA certainly has no shortage of films from
which to choose nominees for the documentary category.

I'd rather not divert off into that since my comment was intended as an
exaggeration.

I'm glad you liked it. It's destined to become a classic in my mind :)

It actually came from the friend's mother and she is apparently family
famous for amusing statements like that but I suspect that one is the cream
of the crop.
No, I'm not THAT far gone, but I do know that seeing a Congressman
asked on camera about sending his offspring to Iraq, and seeing his silent
response ("uhhhh...aren't I supposed to have security around me at all
times?" he must've been thinking), is one small truth in a larger picture
that might not be as truthful or straightforward.

No offense but, IMO, it's a good example of how the medium is abused:
Ambushing someone with a 'gotcha' sound byte question with no serious
discourse on it nor the underlying premise (which is entirely bogus, but
even further off topic). That's the point of an ambush question in the
first place: to, hopefully, catch someone off guard and before they can
think. You might get a number of rational answers but the deer in the
headlights one is what goes into the 'movie', of course. After all, who
wants a serious rebuttal in a propaganda piece?
And while I hadn't woke
up that morning saying, "geez, I wonder if public executions actually DO
happen?" it turns out that seeing one on a movie screen was more than
enough proof to convince me of the answer.

A real one or a movie enactment? And how do you know which is which? Used
to be that seeing famous faces was a clue but with Martha's head appearing
on someone else's body even that is suspect these days ;)
Anything from the newspaper to a movie to radio to the web is going to
have little bits of fact mixed in with whatever else was handy. I don't
think dismissing the entire genre of film as a possible source would be
any smarter than going to the movies to catch up on world events.
Although I'm sure my grandpa if he were here would tell me about how it
used to be....

I didn't dismiss the entire genre of "film." I said 'movies' weren't a
reliable source and that they're not evidence. They might give one pause to
think, or go and *look* for real evidence, though.

I might be tempted to accept Movietone Newsreels but, then, there are
critiques who claim that was all "propaganda" too.
See, aren't you glad that we have so much in common on this? ;-) The "not
quite right," BTW, was referring to an instance where someone goes into
the theater with a critical eye and sees a new perspective, but is told
that what he saw couldn't possibly be true because it was a "movie."
That's not quite right.

We're probably not too far apart and the difference is a confusion of
words. Because I didn't say "it can't be true." I said one can't claim
something *is* true simply because they 'saw it in a movie'.

That's how this got started. Someone made an specific 'accusation' about
business and when I asked for evidence of that specific the answer was to
go see a particular movie. But that isn't 'evidence'.
damn. Thanks for the offer, but I guess it's back to newegg for me....

ta ta, see ya in the movies? :)

Who knows? Anything is possible in the movies :)
 
 

 notritenoteri

you sound like one of those people who has either an inability or no desire
to discriminate about quality or purpose. to you the sistine chapel ceiling
is just a paint job it could have been sprayed by Maaco. To you all wines
are ripple, you drink em for the wack. Nothng wrong with that in fact its a
positive advantge in some cases.
 
A

aether

Who would attempt to argue the intent of these manufacturers? Someone
who enjoys arguing for argument's sake. Or, an idiot. The intent is
profit. You can't argue that prices continue to climb. They are, have
been, and will continue to.
 
A

Axl Myk

aether said:
Who would attempt to argue the intent of these manufacturers? Someone
who enjoys arguing for argument's sake. Or, an idiot. The intent is
profit. You can't argue that prices continue to climb. They are, have
been, and will continue to.
I will argue the point that this thread is in the wrong forum..
 
D

David Maynard

aether said:
Who would attempt to argue the intent of these manufacturers? Someone
who enjoys arguing for argument's sake. Or, an idiot. The intent is
profit.

Announcing that companies want to make a profit is as startling a
revelation as discovering that people take jobs to earn a living.
You can't argue that prices continue to climb. They are, have
been, and will continue to.

In general, it's called "inflation."
 
A

aether

aether said:
Check it out:
http://www.newegg.com/app/searchPro...order=PRICE&description=DDR2-533&Order=priceD

Those aren't even the top of the line. ('top of the line' meaning
fastest, newest..)

Paying over $450 for a couple DIMMs of good memory isn't due to
inflation, but extortion.


Another quick example. Over the past week, the AMD 3500+ Winchester has
not only not decreased in price, but has increased by 15 dollars at
Zipzoomfly.com. Memory and video cards have also been increasing over
the past few months, as I've been tracking a few modules and cards,
mostly out of curiosity.

As I said before, let us hope Asian corporations manufacture their own
chipsets, motherboards, graphics cards, and memory, and dump millions
of them into western markets. I'd like to see the western corporations
who outsource manufacturing jobs to Asia *lose out* to other Asian
manufacturers. Teaching them a lesson, and if the lesson isn't learnt,
permanently putting them out of business. Since western manufacturers
only seek to gain massive profits, and we see no benefits of this
outsourcing in terms of prices, no American should care when this
happens. It's going to happen anyway. I say this with the knowledge
that, on average, these corporations wrake in massive earnings.
However, it's never enough! Their only goal is to please shareholders
and the stock market. Their purpose is only profit! They move entire
factories out of the country, seeking to exploit cheap labor, and in
the process make unemployed millions of industrious people in their own
country -- for profit alone! Let them, in turn, choke, on the cheap
labor of Asia. We'll still have those unemployed from that sector
because of these avaricious companies, but at least we'll see something
in return.
 
D

David Maynard

aether said:
Another quick example. Over the past week, the AMD 3500+ Winchester has
not only not decreased in price, but has increased by 15 dollars at
Zipzoomfly.com. Memory and video cards have also been increasing over
the past few months, as I've been tracking a few modules and cards,
mostly out of curiosity.

All of which is immaterial.

As I said before, let us hope Asian corporations manufacture their own
chipsets, motherboards, graphics cards, and memory, and dump millions
of them into western markets. I'd like to see the western corporations
who outsource manufacturing jobs to Asia *lose out* to other Asian
manufacturers. Teaching them a lesson, and if the lesson isn't learnt,
permanently putting them out of business. Since western manufacturers
only seek to gain massive profits, and we see no benefits of this
outsourcing in terms of prices, no American should care when this
happens. It's going to happen anyway. I say this with the knowledge
that, on average, these corporations wrake in massive earnings.
However, it's never enough! Their only goal is to please shareholders
and the stock market. Their purpose is only profit! They move entire
factories out of the country, seeking to exploit cheap labor, and in
the process make unemployed millions of industrious people in their own
country -- for profit alone! Let them, in turn, choke, on the cheap
labor of Asia. We'll still have those unemployed from that sector
because of these avaricious companies, but at least we'll see something
in return.


You haven't a clue.
 

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