[PL] 2004 Discussion: SYSTEM UTILITIES

[jason]

take a look, tell me what you think . . .

Interesting! It's a bit different than we were talking about, but I like
it. Individual comments are below.

Cpu Cooler
Memory Tester
Motherboard Monitor

The above three clearly belong together...but it would be nice to have an
umbrella term. Karen proposed Hardware-something-or-rather, which was
one possibility, though the connection to CPU cooler seems a little
strained to me...and Memory Tester doesn't evoke hardware to me...maybe
if we called it Memory Chip Tester...? (I'm reaching here...I know
nothing about hardware.) But I think it's worth considering Hardware-
something-or-rather or another umbrella category...

Process Monitor
Process Monitor: Memory
Process Monitor: Registry
Process Monitor: Resources
Process Monitor: Start-Up
Cleaner-Remove IE
Cleaner: Files
Cleaner: Files and Registry
Cleaner: Registry
Registry and File Tools
Registry Editor

I like seeing all the registry tools together and I'd prefer having
Registry Backups included in the above grouping. I think people would
scan the page for "registry" before they'd scan it for "backup". I won't
argue about "Cleaner-Registry" since it's placed next to the registry
tools.

Install-Uninstall Tool

Memory Tweaker
Start-Up Tweaker

I'd prefer the above two categories placed before Cleaners. That way
they're closer to the other startup and memory tools.

And I'd expect the System Tweakers to be moved over here from
PROGRAMMING...

Backup DLLs
Backup Drivers
Backup Files
Backup: Registry
Boot Manager
Boot Manager; Partitioner
CD Tool
Format Diskettes
Partition Tool
Operating System
Os: Unix For Windows

Looks good. I don't remember how it differs from the other proposals,
but it hangs together well for me.

 

[Bjorn Abelli]

OS

Debian (6 Operating System)
FreeBSD (6 Operating System)

Just a thought....

The Pricelessware list is defined as "the best of the best in Windows
freeware".

To my knowledge Debian and FreeBSD doesn't run "under" Windows at all, since
they are OS:s of their own...

They are without question "ultimate freeware", and are definitely
recommendable in a.c.f. but I wonder if they really should be on the
Pricelessware list?

Anyone?

CygWin on the other hand is more of an OS-emulator (emulates Linux *on*
Windows) rather than an OS in itself.

// Bjorn A

P.S.

To those Windows-users that want to start to learn about Linux I usually
recommend something like Mandrake as a starting point:

http://www.mandrakesoft.com/

....and to try the others when they have tried that for a while...

 

[omega]

Process Monitor

Process Monitor: Memory
Process Monitor: Registry
Process Monitor: Resources
Process Monitor: Start-Up

I wouldn't use this language, Process Monitor. It might sound right in a
general "descriptive" way. The problem is that it represents a specific
type of utility. Notice how the term "processes" is understood...

-----------------<Process Monitors readme excepts>------------------------

Procmon is a process utility which can display various information
concerning the programs running in your computer (the processes)...

PrcView is a freeware process viewer utility that shows comprehensive
information about running processes. This information includes such details
as the creation time, version and full path for each DLL used by a selected
process, a list of all threads, memory blocks and heaps. PrcVIew also allows
you to kill and attach a debugger to a selected process...

ATM provides a real-time capability to monitor all processes and threads. It
allows you to completely manage the system priority of all running processes
and threads...

Process Explorer shows you information about which DLLs' processes have
loaded and which handles they have opened...

Process Master is a freeware program which allows you to view the processes,
threads and windows of any 32-bit Windows operating system. You can also
close programs cleanly and kill them unconditionally....

---------------</Process Monitors readme excepts>------------------------



Some programs currently listed under "Process Monitor"


"RAMpage is a small Windows utility that displays the amount of available
memory in an icon in the System Tray..."

"Regmon will show you which applications are accessing your registry, and
the registry data that they are reading and writing..."

"QuickResource displays a graph that indicate your remaining System, User,
and GDI resources..."

"StartupMonitor notifies you when any program writes a registry key to run
at system startup..."

"WinPatrol will alert you to any new programs added to your startup..."


.. . . .

"System monitor" OTOH does not represent any one type of utility, so is not
confusing, as with "process monitor," which does

 

[omega]

DLL Archive (5 Backup DLLs)


DLL Archive's purpose is not backup... It's a tool for System Files, and
therein specifically a cleaner. To scout out leftover DLLs in the system
directory which don't contain references in the registry. (Its misleading
name "Archive" pertains to its safety feature for the cleaning process, that
it sets the DLLs to be eliminated aside, as a cautionary step, before the
final delete judgement.)

 

[omega]

System utilities voters will want to make sure to not overlook these:

http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/PL2004ORGANIZERS.htm#Cataloger:System
Aida32
Belarc Advisor

http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/PL2004ORGANIZERS.htm#Cataloger:FileDependency
Dependency Walker



.. . .

I appreciate and like Dependency Walker. If by chance you're using the
version came with the reskit, make sure to get the latest version from
the website (dependencywalker.com). Additional note. If you like this one,
you'll like Faber Toys too, maybe even more so. It's not been nominated,
but it's well worth getting (faberbox.com).

 

[jason]

I wouldn't use this language, Process Monitor. It might sound right in
a general "descriptive" way. The problem is that it represents a
specific type of utility. Notice how the term "processes" is
understood...

I agree. While I liked the grouping...though I still prefer registry
utilities and startup utilities separate...the term "process monitor"
bothered me.

 

[jason]

System utilities voters will want to make sure to not overlook these:

http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/PL2004ORGANIZERS.htm#Cataloger:System
Aida32
Belarc Advisor

http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/PL2004ORGANIZERS.htm#Cataloger:FileDe
pendency Dependency Walker

Absolutely agree. I hadn't gotten that far, but Aida32 and Belarc
Advisor belong under SYSTEM UTILITIES. I think they were called System
Information Tools before.

Dependency Walker is not a cataloger. My gut tells me it belongs either
under SYSTEM UTILITIES or FILE UTILITIES but I'm not sure what subcat to
call it...Haven't had my morning coffee yet.

Plus, as mentioned before, the System Tweakers under PROGRAMMING belong
under SYSTEM UTLITIES. I haven't looked too much outside the SYSTEM
UTILITIES category, but there may be more subcats that need to be moved.

 

[jason]

<snipped>

While I liked the grouping...though I still prefer registry

utilities...

People don't ask for cleaners that work with the registry. They ask for
registry cleaners.

People don't ask for backup utilities that might work with the registry.
They ask for registry backup utilities.

People don't ask for process monitors that might work with the registry.
They ask for registry monitors.

I think all registry utilities belong together. It's one of those
"mega" categories that's hard to ignore. Susan seems to prefer "action
verbs" whenever possible...hence Clean, Monitor, Backup, etc. That works
in many cases...but registry utilities is not one of them, IMO.

 

[jason]

Just a thought....

The Pricelessware list is defined as "the best of the best in Windows
freeware".

To my knowledge Debian and FreeBSD doesn't run "under" Windows at all,
since they are OS:s of their own...

They are without question "ultimate freeware", and are definitely
recommendable in a.c.f. but I wonder if they really should be on the
Pricelessware list?

I've wondered the same thing. Last year there was a tentative proposal to
add a category called "Other Operating Systems". At any rate, if we're
including OS besides Windows, it seems the description of PW needs to be
tweaked a little.

 

[omega]

Dependency Walker is not a cataloger. My gut tells me it belongs either
under SYSTEM UTILITIES or FILE UTILITIES but I'm not sure what subcat to
call it...Haven't had my morning coffee yet.

I see it best placed (for PL2005?) under either system utilities, or else
maybe possibly programmer's tools. Under system utilities, tricky to name
the subcat, but consider that dependencywalker's common use is basically to
analyze what an exe wants... I would want it to be near Filemon. Yet Filemon
is a less-common type of program, too, so doesn't have a simple home. A
central denominator with the two is that they concern PE files (EXEs and
libraries, eg DLLs, etc). A "system files" type subcat?

 

[jason]

jason <[email protected]>:

I see it best placed (for PL2005?) under either system utilities, or
else maybe possibly programmer's tools.

By FILE UTILITIES, I was thinking DLL file dependencies...but I'm backing
off since DLLs are system files not regular files, and for that reason
Dependency Walker belongs under SYSTEM UTILITIES.

A "system files"type subcat?

That sounds good...but we need a verb in their someplace. System Files
Dependency Analysis? Is that what they both do?

 

[omega]

By FILE UTILITIES, I was thinking DLL file dependencies...but I'm backing
off since DLLs are system files not regular files, and for that reason
Dependency Walker belongs under SYSTEM UTILITIES.


That sounds good...but we need a verb in their someplace. System Files
Dependency Analysis? Is that what they both do?

Dependency Walker, you can point it at any PE file, to get a list of
the modules that loads and depends on, in detailed information. You can
also use its "profiling" option, to watch the conversation going on
between an exe and its dlls.

Filemon, you can point it at anyprocess (most often has a corresponding
exe), to watch what files of any type are being accessed by that exe or
process. You can also run it without defining who to watch, with no filters,
but that gets too intense, in practice, a 1mb log will build up in minutes.

So, given that, "system files" isn't too accurate. I mean, it is often
system files you'd be looking at as a result, because they're often an
executable's dependencies. (Or you may even be questioning a system file
directly: one use of Dependency Walker is pointing is at explorer.exe
in an attempt to find whatever problems with the DLLs it's loading).

Yet just as often, it isn't about system files. For example, some program
you want to move, who you figure managed to hide its personal DLLs in your
system directory, both these progs are good for dealing with that.

I was just coming with the term system files in an associative way, not in
its correct sense. They might be often involved when using these programs,
but not by definition.

And PE files, that would be a bit forbidding in sound.... No thoughts
arriving here. And I woke this morning to find no coffee! :<

 

[omega]

That sounds good...but we need a verb in their someplace. System Files
Dependency Analysis? Is that what they both do?

I was wanting a system files type subcat for a few other programs. Yet
the further thought shows it wouldn't be good for a program like
Dependency Walker.

System Monitors: dependencies?
Filemon, Dependency Walker

(Definitely clear that it is a System tool... I mean, it does analaysis of
EXEs... Makes it not an Organizer, nor even belonging with File tools.)

It is very lucky that Faber Toys is not on the list. It does what Dependency
Walker does, plus some 20 other things, too, which would make classing it
complex.

 

[Susan Bugher]

I wouldn't use this language, Process Monitor. It might sound right in a
general "descriptive" way.

IMO A *descriptive* name is what we need. Beginners as well as experts
will be using the Category Index page and browsing the Category pages.

The problem is that it represents a specific
type of utility. Notice how the term "processes" is understood...

http://www.pa.msu.edu/~wilkin49/faq/pc_dict.txt

process

<operating system, software> An executing {program}. A process consists
of the program {code} (which may be shared with other processes which
are executing the same program), and some private data. It may have
other associated resources such as a {process identifier}, open files,
{CPU time} limits, {shared memory}, {child processes}, and {signal
handlers}.

http://www.webopedia.com/

process

(n) An executing program. The term is used loosely as a synonym of task.


These apps all monitor running processes and report on them. Some apps
only monitor part of a process. That limitation is noted after the colon.

"System monitor" OTOH does not represent any one type of utility, so is not
confusing, as with "process monitor," which does

OTOH System also doesn't convey any useful information (IMO).

(note: I've combined your posts)

DLL Archive's purpose is not backup... It's a tool for System Files, and
therein specifically a cleaner. To scout out leftover DLLs in the system
directory which don't contain references in the registry. (Its misleading
name "Archive" pertains to its safety feature for the cleaning process, that
it sets the DLLs to be eliminated aside, as a cautionary step, before the
final delete judgement.)

Thanks, I'll move it.

Request: would you please look at this app and tell me where you think
it belongs.

Easy SFV Creator

http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/PL2004PROGRAMMING.htm#ZZ123

Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html

 

[jason]

I was wanting a system files type subcat for a few other programs. Yet
the further thought shows it wouldn't be good for a program like
Dependency Walker.

System Monitors: dependencies?
Filemon, Dependency Walker

That sounds pretty good.

(Definitely clear that it is a System tool... I mean, it does
analaysis of EXEs... Makes it not an Organizer, nor even belonging
with File tools.)
Agreed.

It is very lucky that Faber Toys is not on the list. It does what
Dependency Walker does, plus some 20 other things, too, which would
make classing it complex.

I was wondering about those utilities that move/replace "locked" files
on the next boot. Locked files = System Files. Examples are Move on
Boot and Install File. There'd have to be yet another "system files"
category for those.

 

[jason]

Request: would you please look at this app and tell me where you think
it belongs.

Easy SFV Creator

http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/PL2004PROGRAMMING.htm#ZZ123

Sounds like file integrity verification??

BTW, the wrong description is included on the PW page. It should be:

Easy SFV Creator is the all-in-one SFV file creation kit. It can create
..SFV files for entire trees of files. It can split and combine files and
create/check the .SFV files at the same time. It has optional smart file
name caching so that perfect files are only checked once. It has optional
Explorer context menu items. It offers absolutely everything you could want
from an SFV creation program.

 

[jason]

Sounds like file integrity verification??

Actually, File Validator is shorter.

 

[Susan Bugher]

Actually, File Validator is shorter.

Should be here, I'll move it (and fix the description).

http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/PL2004FILEUTILITIES.htm#Files:Validate

Thank you.

Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html

 

[omega]

That sounds pretty good.

Your original, having verb, "dependency analysis" was better (I'd failed to
mentally register the suggestion until after posting my reply).

I was wondering about those utilities that move/replace "locked" files
on the next boot. Locked files = System Files. Examples are Move on
Boot and Install File. There'd have to be yet another "system files"
category for those.

Yes, abnormal files like those, they represent the the kind of files
operation belonging under system utilities... Also, anything that catalogs
or otherwise deals with version info... And, Locked files = system files:
that brings up a good point. I'd say that even if they are not an innate part
of the OS, nor exist in any of the standard directories, once they have to
be dealt with specially, they become, for that computer, system files....

.. . .



(Only logged in for a minute here. Petsitting this weekend, and one of the
beasts made a meal of my battery pack/AC adapter. I spliced & diced those
multiple sections eaten, retaped, yards of electrical tape... Figure best
ought to wait until replacement part arrives, instead of testing prolonged
runs of the machine with the wires in the mangled state they are now...)

 

[jason]

(Only logged in for a minute here. Petsitting this weekend, and one of
the beasts made a meal of my battery pack/AC adapter.

Rabbits? Oh wait, they eat cords. What animal eats battery packs?!