[PL] 2004 Discussion: SYSTEM UTILITIES

[omega]

Susan Bugher <[email protected]>:

Still a turtoise on the whole thing at once. In the meantime, I found a
couple of programs in the wrong group.

12 SYSTEM FILES: BACKUP DLL Archive (Backup DLLs)

I hadn't been thinking before. DLL Archive is for trying to find "orphan"
DLLs in the system directory. Its name is just because it sets aside the
suspects.

zzz WinPatrol (Process Monitor)

I went to the web page, and this turns out to be another Start Up control
program. So it does belong here.


Gee, Susan the nitpick details is a heckuva lot easier than getting
satisfaction on a complete layout. But back to staring down the numbers...

 

[jason]

Looks good! Only one comment (below):

EasyCleaner, jv16 Powertools, RegSeeker
RegEditX, Registrar Lite, RegMagik
AddRemove Pro, Total Uninstall

FolderBackup, XXCopy, BASK, MOB, Karen's Replicator, Cobian Backup
WinDriversBackup, DLL Archive

Start-Up Monitor, Startup Control Panel
Empty Temp Folders, Spider, IEradicator

Recommend keeping the above two categories separate - Startup Control and
MSIE Cleaning. "Control/Clean" is too vague to have any meaning. Also,
the two categories don't seem related in any way. Finally, I think the
two categories are strong enough to stand on their own. Granted, I've
never seen a category for JUST IE cleaners before, but I actually think
that's a progressive idea! Anyway...JMO

 

[omega]

WinPatrol

I just went to their web site, posted about it about the same time you
came in.

RegShot
Add/Remove Pro
Total Uninstall

Total Uninstall is the true uninstaller in this group. RegShot is to view a
before and after shot of your registry. In itself, it's only a very basic
registry logger. That said, tt can be used /in conjunction/ with another
program, UndoReg, for uninstaling purposes. Add/Remove Pro is to clean up a
particular registry key, or as a frontend for the CPL Add/Remove interface.
It doesn't do anything about protecting us from program installs, or cleaning
up after them properly.

The above, it's the details of the things. So what to do about the details,
to get the whole right?

 

[omega]

Recommend keeping the above two categories separate - Startup Control and
MSIE Cleaning. "Control/Clean" is too vague to have any meaning. Also,
the two categories don't seem related in any way. Finally, I think the
two categories are strong enough to stand on their own. Granted, I've
never seen a category for JUST IE cleaners before, but I actually think
that's a progressive idea! Anyway...JMO

Yeah, you identified the barrier I arrived at. Control/Clean is totally
changing the way the categorizing was done. It is vague to the extent
that it can just apply to everything, period.

 

[omega]

never seen a category for JUST IE cleaners before, but I actually think
that's a progressive idea! Anyway...JMO

You noticed the see the amusing aspect in the list? The first two programs,
you clean the MSIE files, routinely. The third one, you never got to clean
them again!

 

[Susan Bugher]

back in a minute . . .

This is organized first by the group numbers I used, with your numbers
as a secondary sort. WinPatrol and the install/uninstall group seems to
be where we differ.

Susan


Rain (CpuCooler) 01 HARDWARE TOOLS
Memtest86 (RAMTester) 01 HARDWARE TOOLS
MotherBoard Monitor (MBM) (MotherboardMonitor) 01 HARDWARE TOOLS

Another Task Manager (ATM) (ProcessMonitor) 02 SYSTEM MONITORS:
processes, resources, ram
Filemon (ProcessMonitor) 02 SYSTEM MONITORS: processes, resources, ram
PRCView (ProcessMonitor) 02 SYSTEM MONITORS: processes, resources, ram
Process Explorer (ProcessMonitor) 02 SYSTEM MONITORS: processes,
resources, ram
MemLoad (ProcessMonitor:RAM) 02 SYSTEM MONITORS: processes, resources, ram
RAMpage (ProcessMonitor:RAM) 02 SYSTEM MONITORS: processes, resources, ram
Quick Resource (ProcessMonitor:Resources) 02 SYSTEM MONITORS:
processes, resources, ram

RegMon (ProcessMonitor:Registry) 03 REGISTRY: MONITOR

Start-Up Monitor (ProcessMonitor:Start-Up) 04 REGISTRY: STARTUP
CONTROLCONTROL

===============================
WinPatrol (ProcessMonitor) zzz
===============================

Empty Temp Folders (Cleaner) 06 MSIE FILES CLEANUP
IEradicator (Cleaner) 06 MSIE FILES CLEANUP
Spider (Cleaner) 06 MSIE FILES CLEANUP

OleClean (Cleaner) 07 REGISTRY: CLEANER
RegCleaner (Cleaner) 07 REGISTRY: CLEANER
EasyCleaner (Cleaner) 07 REGISTRY: CLEANER SUITE *
jv16 Powertools (Cleaner) 07 REGISTRY: CLEANER SUITE *
RegSeeker (RegistryEditor) 07 REGISTRY: CLEANER SUITE *

RegEditX (RegistryEditor) 08 REGISTRY: EDITOR
Registrar Lite (RegistryEditor) 08 REGISTRY: EDITOR
RegMagik (RegistryEditor) 08 REGISTRY: EDITOR

======================================================
RegShot (Install-UninstallTool) 03 REGISTRY: MONITOR
Startup Control Panel (Start-UpTool) 04 REGISTRY: STARTUP CONTROLCONTROL
Add/Remove Pro (Install-UninstallTool) 07 REGISTRY: CLEANER
Total Uninstall (Install-UninstallTool) 09 REGISTRY: INSTALL/UNINSTALL
=======================================================


Cacheman (RAM Manager) 10 SYSTEM TWEAKER: MEMORY

Emergency Recovery Utility NT (ERUNT) (Backup) 11 REGISTRY: BACKUP

DLL Archive (BackupDLLs) 12 SYSTEM FILES: BACKUP
WinDriversBackup Personal Edition (BackupDrivers) 12 SYSTEM FILES: BACKUP

BASK (BackupFiles) 13 FILE UTILITIES: BACKUP
Cobian Backup (BackupFiles) 13 FILE UTILITIES: BACKUP
Karen's Replicator (BackupFiles) 13 FILE UTILITIES: BACKUP
My Own Backup (MOB) (BackupFiles) 13 FILE UTILITIES: BACKUP
PolderBackup (BackupFiles) 13 FILE UTILITIES: BACKUP
XXCopy (BackupFiles) 13 FILE UTILITIES: BACKUP

XOSL (BootManager) 14 PARTITION UTILIITIES

Ranish Partition Manager (BootManager;Partitioner) 14 PARTITION UTILIITIES
Savepart (PartitionTool) 14 PARTITION UTILIITIES

Burn to the Brim (CDTool) 15 CD & FLOPPY:
Burnatonce (CDTool) 15 CD & FLOPPY:
DAEMON Tools (CDTool) 15 CD & FLOPPY:
SuperFormat (FormatDiskettes) 15 CD & FLOPPY:

Debian (OperatingSystem) 16 OS
FreeBSD (OperatingSystem) 16 OS
Cygwin (Os:UnixForWindows) 16 OS




--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html

 

[jason]

You noticed the see the amusing aspect in the list? The first two
programs, you clean the MSIE files, routinely. The third one, you
never got to clean them again!

LOL. We're probably cheating a little by putting it there...but you have a
point.

 

[Susan Bugher]

omega <[email protected]> wrote:

Recommend keeping the above two categories separate - Startup Control and
MSIE Cleaning. "Control/Clean" is too vague to have any meaning. Also,
the two categories don't seem related in any way. Finally, I think the
two categories are strong enough to stand on their own. Granted, I've
never seen a category for JUST IE cleaners before, but I actually think
that's a progressive idea! Anyway...JMO

PL2003 has -> FILE UTILITIES: File Cleaner

Empty Temp Folders
Spider

For PL2004 nominations I moved those programs to the SYSTEMS UTILITIES
page - IIRC some of the registry cleaners *also* clean those files.

Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html

 

[omega]

This is organized first by the group numbers I used, with your numbers
as a secondary sort. WinPatrol and the install/uninstall group seems to
be where we differ.

On the Startups Control thing, Jason as well didn't want those in there as
registry tools. I think he figures it's people who want to stay far away
from thinking about their registry, who like to have those tools, to give
them protection and some system control. I can see the reasoning. OTOH,
it sure seems to me common practice at large on the web, to see them
constantly placed in the registry tools section. I don't have any real
feelings on the matter. Making them off as a standalone or not.

Add/Remove Pro (Install-UninstallTool) 07 REGISTRY: CLEANER

This one as well Jason wanted in with Install-Uninstall, that it's where
people would look. I submitted there.

But below is where it gets pretty central:

======================================================
RegShot (Install-UninstallTool) 03 REGISTRY: MONITOR
Total Uninstall (Install-UninstallTool) 09 REGISTRY: INSTALL/UNINSTALL
=======================================================

People who concern themselves with logging installations also tend towards
the other registry tools, as well. The registry cleaners for instance are
used by the same folks that use Total Uninstall. And then those who would
use RegShot to track system changes, they'd be the types to want to use a
registry editor with it, as well.

I have trouble letting monitoring what happens to the registry during an
install be separated from other registry tools...

 

[omega]

PL2003 has -> FILE UTILITIES: File Cleaner

Empty Temp Folders
Spider

I think the move here is more appropriate. The MSIE things aren't merely
files, like normal files. The registry controls them, in a way (why you
have to clean from DOS, or log into a different profile to trick the
registry, etc).

For PL2004 nominations I moved those programs to the SYSTEMS UTILITIES
page - IIRC some of the registry cleaners *also* clean those files.

From that group where I was struggling for a name: jv16, Regseeker, one of
those probably addresses it (I'd have to launch em to remember for sure).
OOOPS! And SpyBot. But we're not thinking about outside categories at the
moment, right, not seeking extra complications. 8-0

 

[jason]

PL2003 has -> FILE UTILITIES: File Cleaner

Empty Temp Folders
Spider

For PL2004 nominations I moved those programs to the SYSTEMS UTILITIES
page - IIRC some of the registry cleaners *also* clean those files.

Good point....IE cleaners can go either way. But no doubt the main reason I
felt SYSTEM UTILITIES was a good fit is because of their close relationship
to the other cleaners.

 

[jason]

I think the move here is more appropriate. The MSIE things aren't
merely files, like normal files. The registry controls them, in a way
(why you have to clean from DOS, or log into a different profile to
trick the registry, etc).

I too view IE files as "system files" for the same reasons...they don't
behave like normal files and they're not accessible through normal means.
But I also feel they belong under SYSTEM UTILITIES because of their close
relationship to the other cleaning utilities. So that's two reasons for
keeping them under SYSTEM UTILITIES.

 

[Susan Bugher]

I think the move here is more appropriate. The MSIE things aren't merely
files, like normal files. The registry controls them, in a way (why you
have to clean from DOS, or log into a different profile to trick the
registry, etc).




From that group where I was struggling for a name: jv16, Regseeker, one of
those probably addresses it (I'd have to launch em to remember for sure).
OOOPS! And SpyBot. But we're not thinking about outside categories at the
moment, right, not seeking extra complications. 8-0

Very true. I'm going to see if I can figure out where we are . . .

I'll make some changes and upload revised pages.

Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html

 

[jason]

On the Startups Control thing, Jason as well didn't want those in
there as registry tools. I think he figures it's people who want to
stay far away from thinking about their registry, who like to have
those tools, to give them protection and some system control. I can
see the reasoning.

Yup, people seeking startup utilities don't NEED to think about their
registry to get the benefits of those programs. They're just looking for
improved security or the ability to prevent too many processes from
screwing up their system. Whether the registry has anything to do with
the processs is irrelevant to them.

But below is where it gets pretty central:


People who concern themselves with logging installations also tend
towards the other registry tools, as well. The registry cleaners for
instance are used by the same folks that use Total Uninstall.

I use both types of tools -- uninstallers and registry cleaners -- and I
view them separately. One reason is I'm just as concerned about
additions to my SYSTEM FOLDER as I am to my registry. Also the ability
to "uninstall" is so vital and so sought-after, that I feel it warrants a
category by itself. Plus, many of the people who use uninstallers know
very little about their registry; they just know they need an uninstaller
to keep their system from getting screwed up. Part of the appeal of
Total Uninstall is that it can be used automatically...with very little
thought...and no thought at all about the registry...and it'll work for
99.9% of the time.

 

[omega]

Very true. I'm going to see if I can figure out where we are . . .

I'll make some changes and upload revised pages.

You haul the couch & the armoire, while I carry in the little vase, deal?

 

[omega]

I use both types of tools -- uninstallers and registry cleaners -- and I
view them separately. One reason is I'm just as concerned about
additions to my SYSTEM FOLDER as I am to my registry. Also the ability
to "uninstall" is so vital and so sought-after, that I feel it warrants a
category by itself. Plus, many of the people who use uninstallers know
very little about their registry; they just know they need an uninstaller
to keep their system from getting screwed up. Part of the appeal of
Total Uninstall is that it can be used automatically...with very little
thought...and no thought at all about the registry...and it'll work for
99.9% of the time.

I'll have to reread this again later, with thinking through how it works into
a layout on the sysutils page... (I've arrived at the cursed hour where I'm
req'd to log off for duties & stuff... :/ )

 

[Bjorn Abelli]

"jason" ...

omega wrote:

Ouch, that hurt... ;-)

After developing, installing, rewriting, uninstalling, installing...
(several lines of the same)
....I have to reorganize and tweak my systems regularly...

But I agree on your conclusion that it doesn't belong in PROGRAMMING. The
system tweaking isn't part of the programming process itself (well, in most
cases anyway), but rather just a necessary consequence of it...

// Bjorn A

 

[Susan Bugher]

Very true. I'm going to see if I can figure out where we are . . .

I'll make some changes and upload revised pages.

Hi Karen & Jason (and anyone else that's taking an interest),

Now done. New pages uploaded. I think the programs are grouped as you
two felt they should be with the exception of Startup Control Panel.
AFAIK that app is does not monitor running processes. I moved it down
the list and called it a Start-Up Tweaker (for want of a better name).

At this point I'd like to *first* maked sure that the programs are in
appropriately subcategories and that the subcategories are being
presented in a reasonable order. Let me know if you think a subcategory
should move up or down the list.

I made *some* changes in the subcategory names. IMO we need to use
*descriptive* subcategory names.

take a look, tell me what you think . . .

Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html

 

[jason]

Susan Bugher wrote:

I made *some* changes in the subcategory names. IMO we need to use
*descriptive* subcategory names.

take a look, tell me what you think . . .

Susan

Which page are you working from?

 

[Susan Bugher]

Susan Bugher wrote:





Which page are you working from?

I revised all the pages . . .

I suggest you look at the SYSTEM UTILITIES page first - then at the
Category Index page . . .

Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html