P4PE-XTE and new CPUs

G

Gimbo

I tested these CPUs on a P4PE-XTE. (The BIOS is the 1006 version):

Celeron 2400 400fsb
Celeron D 2660/256/533
Pentium 4 2400/1024/533
Pentium 4 2800/1024/800

The only CPU that works is the Celeron 2400. With the others, the mainboard
does not power up.

It could be a BIOS problem?

Thanks!
Gimbo
 
P

Paul

"Gimbo" said:
I tested these CPUs on a P4PE-XTE. (The BIOS is the 1006 version):

Celeron 2400 400fsb
Celeron D 2660/256/533
Pentium 4 2400/1024/533
Pentium 4 2800/1024/800

The only CPU that works is the Celeron 2400. With the others, the mainboard
does not power up.

It could be a BIOS problem?

Thanks!
Gimbo

Yes, it is a BIOS problem.

I examined a couple of BIOS files for P4PE family in the last
couple of days and found:

P4PE1007 BIOS supports family codes:

0F0A, 0F12, 0F13, 0F21, 0F23, 0F24, 0F25, 0F27, 0F29

These codes indicate that P4C Northwood 512KB cache is supported,
the older Celerons and P4 processors are also supported.

The CeleronD probably draws too much current to be safe on that
board. Typical numbers are Vcore ~ 1.0V and current 73 amps. You
can look up the exact figure at processorfinder.intel.com .

The other two processors are Prescott, and it doesn't appear the
BIOS is ready to handle them. The very fastest Prescotts draw
too much power to be safe. My _guess_ is about 60amps from Vcore
is a reasonably safe value.

Always consult this web page before buying processors:
http://www.asus.com.tw/support/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx

HTH,
Paul
 
J

john.smith

Oh no I have a P4PE and I wanted to get the Celeron D processor until I
read this thread. Won't a bios update come and fix this? What about
overclocking? I don't want to buy a new motherboard. Whats the
difference between the P4PE and the XTE?
 
J

john.smith

Heres the processor I have:

Processor Frequency
1.70 GHz

CPUID String
0F13h

Package Type
478 pin PPGA

Core Voltage
1.750

Bus Speed
400 MHz

Thermal Guideline
63.5W

Core Stepping
E0

Thermal Spec
76°C

L2 Cache Size
128 KB

Manufacturing Technology
0.18 micron

L2 Cache Speed
1.70 GHz

Bus/Core Ratio
17
Heres the processor I want:


Processor Frequency
2.66 GHz

CPUID String
0F33H

Package Type
478 pin PPGA

Core Voltage
0.956V-1.052V

Bus Speed
533 MHz

Thermal Guideline
73.0W

Core Stepping
C0

Thermal Spec
67°C

L2 Cache Size
256 KB

Manufacturing Technology
90 nm

L2 Cache Speed
2.66 GHz

Bus/Core Ratio
20

As you can see the Core Voltage is actually lower for the Celeron D.
Why would it not be compatible.
 
P

Paul

Yes, it is a BIOS problem.

I examined a couple of BIOS files for P4PE family in the last
couple of days and found:

P4PE1007 BIOS supports family codes:

0F0A, 0F12, 0F13, 0F21, 0F23, 0F24, 0F25, 0F27, 0F29

These codes indicate that P4C Northwood 512KB cache is supported,
the older Celerons and P4 processors are also supported.

The CeleronD probably draws too much current to be safe on that
board. Typical numbers are Vcore ~ 1.0V and current 73 amps. You
can look up the exact figure at processorfinder.intel.com .

The other two processors are Prescott, and it doesn't appear the
BIOS is ready to handle them. The very fastest Prescotts draw
too much power to be safe. My _guess_ is about 60amps from Vcore
is a reasonably safe value.

Always consult this web page before buying processors:
http://www.asus.com.tw/support/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx

HTH,
Paul

Wow, I just took my own advice, and checked

http://www.asus.com.tw/support/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx

There are some CeleronD processors listed in there for
your board. But you need a revision 2.0 motherboard. I thought
all these P4PE variant boards were the same, but I see Asus
is still providing new BIOS for your board, as there is a
1007.001 beta BIOS for the P4PE-X/TE.

The P4PE-X/TE has a two phase Vcore circuit, so that
part hasn't changed.

The P4PE-X/TE 1007.001 beta bios supports family codes:
0F04, 0F12, 0F13, 0F14, 0F21, 0F23, 0F27, 0F25, 0F29, 0F30

Now, the Asus cpusupport page says 2.8A/533 90nm
processor is supported. On the Intel processorfinder
page, one of the 2.8A processors has family code
0F33 and the other if 0F34. Power consumption is
radically different between them. One runs at 1.25-1.55
volts and the other at 1.0 volts.

The CeleronD SL7C7 2.8A is listed as family code 0F33.
So, again, I don't see support in the BIOS.

So, it looks like Asus claims you need a revision 2.0
motherboard to run the Prescott processors, and yet
the BIOS support isn't correct for them.

Maybe the power supply in your computer wasn't strong
enough to run them ? That is another possible reason
they didn't run.

Contact Asus and ask them to get their story straight.
All these new processors from Intel give me a headache.

Perhaps the revision 2.0 motherboard has a voltage
regulator that can supply the lower voltages needed ?
I don't even know what voltage regulator chip is being
used on those boards. I cannot get any device on this
page to line up with the partial part number I see
in the picture of the motherboard in the manual.
The RT9602 is a dual MOSFET driver, so this is a
two chip Vcore power circuit, but I cannot see the
whole number on the other chip RT92xx.

http://www.richtek.com.tw/ch/product.asp?level1=2

Paul
 
P

Paul

Wow, I just took my own advice, and checked

http://www.asus.com.tw/support/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx

There are some CeleronD processors listed in there for
your board. But you need a revision 2.0 motherboard. I thought
all these P4PE variant boards were the same, but I see Asus
is still providing new BIOS for your board, as there is a
1007.001 beta BIOS for the P4PE-X/TE.

The P4PE-X/TE has a two phase Vcore circuit, so that
part hasn't changed.

The P4PE-X/TE 1007.001 beta bios supports family codes:
0F04, 0F12, 0F13, 0F14, 0F21, 0F23, 0F27, 0F25, 0F29, 0F30

Now, the Asus cpusupport page says 2.8A/533 90nm
processor is supported. On the Intel processorfinder
page, one of the 2.8A processors has family code
0F33 and the other if 0F34. Power consumption is
radically different between them. One runs at 1.25-1.55
volts and the other at 1.0 volts.

The CeleronD SL7C7 2.8A is listed as family code 0F33.
So, again, I don't see support in the BIOS.

So, it looks like Asus claims you need a revision 2.0
motherboard to run the Prescott processors, and yet
the BIOS support isn't correct for them.

Maybe the power supply in your computer wasn't strong
enough to run them ? That is another possible reason
they didn't run.

Contact Asus and ask them to get their story straight.
All these new processors from Intel give me a headache.

Perhaps the revision 2.0 motherboard has a voltage
regulator that can supply the lower voltages needed ?
I don't even know what voltage regulator chip is being
used on those boards. I cannot get any device on this
page to line up with the partial part number I see
in the picture of the motherboard in the manual.
The RT9602 is a dual MOSFET driver, so this is a
two chip Vcore power circuit, but I cannot see the
whole number on the other chip RT92xx.

http://www.richtek.com.tw/ch/product.asp?level1=2

Paul

OK, I looked up some specs from the Intel site. The first
spec applies to Socket 478 boards, and the second to
Socket 775 (included for completeness).

ftp://download.intel.com/design/Pentium4/guides/25288503.pdf (S478)
ftp://download.intel.com/design/Pentium4/guides/30235601.pdf (S775)

S478 motherboards can be designed for four different types of
processors.

Intel® Celeron® Processor 478_VR_CONFIG_C
0.13 Micron 478-Pin Package

Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 478_VR_CONFIG_C
Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 478_VR_CONFIG_D
512-KB L2 Cache, 0.13 Micron, 3.40 GHz

Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor P4EE 478_VR_CONFIG_D

Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor on 90 nm 478_VR_CONFIG_A
478_VR_CONFIG_B

Configuration Iccmax VR_TDC Dynamic_Icc RLL TOB Maximum VID
478_VR_CONFIG_A 91A 80A 70A 1.24 ±19 mV 1.4 V
478_VR_CONFIG_B 78A 68A 55A 1.3 ±25 mV 1.4 V
478_VR_CONFIG_C 70A 63A 50A 1.5 ±25 mV 1.6 V
478_VR_CONFIG_D 91A 80A 70A 1.5 ±19 mV 1.6 V

The CeleronD datasheet is here:
ftp://download.intel.com/design/celeron/datashts/30235301.pdf

The CeleronD has a load line curve that is different than all
of the above, but the closest match I can find is CONFIG_C.
The CeleronD doesn't use dynamic VID, a VRD 10.1 feature, so
most P4 motherboards designed for CONFIG_C should be able to
work with the CeleronD. For the 2.8GHz/533/256KB 90nm Celeron:

VID 1.25-1.4v
I_max 73 amps
Power 73 watts (power drawn under non-max conditions, called TDP
thermal design power, or "how big to make the
heatsink")

Intel, of course, cannot list the current at TDP, so you divide
73W by 1.25 or 1.4V, to come up with an estimate. 58.4 amps or
52 amps would be an estimate. The CONFIG_C lists the current
at TDC as 63A, enough capacity to handle 58 or 52 amps.

So, the only error I see from this exercise, is the Intel
processorfinder entry that lists the CeleronD as running at
one volt. This spec sheet says 1.25 to 1.4 volts, and that is
a more believable number.

Some Prescott S478 info is here:
ftp://download.intel.com/design/Pentium4/datashts/30056102.pdf

Prescotts are divided into two groups, low power ones and
high power ones. A 2.8A/533 or a 2.8E/800 are both classed as
CONFIG_B types, and run with a VID of 1.25 to 1.4 as well
(makes sense, as the CeleronD is related to them). The absolute
max current is 78A, and the Thermal design power TDP is listed as
89W. Dividing 89W by 1.25 or 1.4 volts, gives 71.2A or 63.6A.
Blame the extra power on the larger cache.

Whether a low end Prescott will run or not, depends on whether the
motherboard was designed for both CONFIG_B and CONFIG_C. Since
Asus never lists design parameters for the Vcore regulator, the
only way to guess, is to analyse the circuit itself, by reading
the datasheet for the specific Richtek regulator being used. It is
possible that the spec for CONFIG_B didn't even exist when the
P4PE was designed.

I find it hard to believe a two phase regulator can produce 70 amps
of current, but that is what the specs call for.

I expect all the problems are BIOS related.

HTH,
Paul
 
J

john.smith

Paul said:
OK, I looked up some specs from the Intel site. The first
spec applies to Socket 478 boards, and the second to
Socket 775 (included for completeness).

ftp://download.intel.com/design/Pentium4/guides/25288503.pdf (S478)
ftp://download.intel.com/design/Pentium4/guides/30235601.pdf (S775)

S478 motherboards can be designed for four different types of
processors.

Intel® Celeron® Processor 478_VR_CONFIG_C
0.13 Micron 478-Pin Package

Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 478_VR_CONFIG_C
Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 478_VR_CONFIG_D
512-KB L2 Cache, 0.13 Micron, 3.40 GHz

Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor P4EE 478_VR_CONFIG_D

Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor on 90 nm 478_VR_CONFIG_A
478_VR_CONFIG_B

Configuration Iccmax VR_TDC Dynamic_Icc RLL TOB Maximum VID
478_VR_CONFIG_A 91A 80A 70A 1.24 ±19 mV 1.4 V
478_VR_CONFIG_B 78A 68A 55A 1.3 ±25 mV 1.4 V
478_VR_CONFIG_C 70A 63A 50A 1.5 ±25 mV 1.6 V
478_VR_CONFIG_D 91A 80A 70A 1.5 ±19 mV 1.6 V

The CeleronD datasheet is here:
ftp://download.intel.com/design/celeron/datashts/30235301.pdf

The CeleronD has a load line curve that is different than all
of the above, but the closest match I can find is CONFIG_C.
The CeleronD doesn't use dynamic VID, a VRD 10.1 feature, so
most P4 motherboards designed for CONFIG_C should be able to
work with the CeleronD. For the 2.8GHz/533/256KB 90nm Celeron:

VID 1.25-1.4v
I_max 73 amps
Power 73 watts (power drawn under non-max conditions, called TDP
thermal design power, or "how big to make the
heatsink")

Intel, of course, cannot list the current at TDP, so you divide
73W by 1.25 or 1.4V, to come up with an estimate. 58.4 amps or
52 amps would be an estimate. The CONFIG_C lists the current
at TDC as 63A, enough capacity to handle 58 or 52 amps.

So, the only error I see from this exercise, is the Intel
processorfinder entry that lists the CeleronD as running at
one volt. This spec sheet says 1.25 to 1.4 volts, and that is
a more believable number.

Some Prescott S478 info is here:
ftp://download.intel.com/design/Pentium4/datashts/30056102.pdf

Prescotts are divided into two groups, low power ones and
high power ones. A 2.8A/533 or a 2.8E/800 are both classed as
CONFIG_B types, and run with a VID of 1.25 to 1.4 as well
(makes sense, as the CeleronD is related to them). The absolute
max current is 78A, and the Thermal design power TDP is listed as
89W. Dividing 89W by 1.25 or 1.4 volts, gives 71.2A or 63.6A.
Blame the extra power on the larger cache.

Whether a low end Prescott will run or not, depends on whether the
motherboard was designed for both CONFIG_B and CONFIG_C. Since
Asus never lists design parameters for the Vcore regulator, the
only way to guess, is to analyse the circuit itself, by reading
the datasheet for the specific Richtek regulator being used. It is
possible that the spec for CONFIG_B didn't even exist when the
P4PE was designed.

I find it hard to believe a two phase regulator can produce 70 amps
of current, but that is what the specs call for.

I expect all the problems are BIOS related.

HTH,
Paul
Hey paul you're doing all the work :) I wish ASUS would say something :/
Eventually someone will buy a Celeron D and post on this forum if they
got it working hopefully :)

Maybe I should buy it and return it if it doesn't work.
 

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