P4PE and 3.06HT Problems

N

NRS

I just installed a 3.06GHz P4 with HT. I am running P4PE Rev. 1.03 with
the latest 1007 BIOS. On post the screen shows 2 1.60GHz CPUs (not 2
3.06 GHz CPUs like I expected). There is a Power Hardware alert that
indicates VCore is low at 1.26V. The system boots into WinXP and is
totally stable but Windows indicates that the chip is a 3.06GHz Pentium
4 running at 1.60GHz.
Needless to say this is NOT OK. I checked the Intel Frequency ID
Utility (dowloaded from Intel) and it too indicates a 3.06GHz Pentium 4
running at 1.60 GHz. I have an Antec 400W Power supply. I tried
disconnecting all drives except the BOOT drive and a graphics card with
this CPU. Same problem occurs. I am stumped. Is my power supply to
blame? I doubt its the chip. Is it the P4PE Voltage Regulator?
I have a "spare" P4PE-X and hooked it up with that exact same
results (that is a 1.03 Revisision board running 1007 Award BIOS as
well). I researched the ASUS site and it says that my board is fully
capable of running the Intel 3.06Ghz P4 with HT.

I have tried the following:

LATEST BIOS
CHECKED MY BOARD REVISION
WIN XP Runs STABLE
SWAPPED BOARDS AND STILL HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM

Thanks in Advance.
 
P

Paul

"NRS" said:
I just installed a 3.06GHz P4 with HT. I am running P4PE Rev. 1.03 with
the latest 1007 BIOS. On post the screen shows 2 1.60GHz CPUs (not 2
3.06 GHz CPUs like I expected). There is a Power Hardware alert that
indicates VCore is low at 1.26V. The system boots into WinXP and is
totally stable but Windows indicates that the chip is a 3.06GHz Pentium
4 running at 1.60GHz.
Needless to say this is NOT OK. I checked the Intel Frequency ID
Utility (dowloaded from Intel) and it too indicates a 3.06GHz Pentium 4
running at 1.60 GHz. I have an Antec 400W Power supply. I tried
disconnecting all drives except the BOOT drive and a graphics card with
this CPU. Same problem occurs. I am stumped. Is my power supply to
blame? I doubt its the chip. Is it the P4PE Voltage Regulator?
I have a "spare" P4PE-X and hooked it up with that exact same
results (that is a 1.03 Revisision board running 1007 Award BIOS as
well). I researched the ASUS site and it says that my board is fully
capable of running the Intel 3.06Ghz P4 with HT.

I have tried the following:

LATEST BIOS
CHECKED MY BOARD REVISION
WIN XP Runs STABLE
SWAPPED BOARDS AND STILL HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM

Thanks in Advance.

You lucky dog :) You bought a Mobile P4.

http://processorfinder.intel.com/scripts/details.asp?sSpec=sl726

People have been overclocking these on Abxzone in past years.
The 3.06GHz one would be the most desirable model, as overclocking
it to 3.6GHz should go quite smooth.

The way this works, is "Mobile Intel Pentium 4 Processors" have
the same pinout as a desktop part. They plug into the same S478
socket. But, the way you identify you got a Mobile (other than
using the processorfinder site), is the multiplier is fixed at
x12. Usually, when they first start, the clock is 100MHz, the
FSB reads out as FSB400. 100 x 12 = 1200MHz, super-slow. (Only
a mobile chipset properly sets the speed - a desktop chipset
will give the 1200MHz thing instead.)

In your case, the clock is (somehow) at 133MHz. Maybe you forced
the CPU clock to 133Mhz, or maybe the BSEL pins on the bottom of
that particular model of processor are coded that way, I don't know
for sure. 133 x 12 = 1.6GHz.

This kind of processor is best run in a P4C800-E Deluxe. There,
you can set the clock manually to 300MHz, the FSB becomes FSB1200,
the core speed becomes 3.6GHz. You use the best DDR DRAM available
(maybe some TCCD these days), and run the RAM 1:1 at DDR600.

It may require an adjustment of Vcore, as I don't remember right
off hand, what voltage that chip requests at startup. (The SL726
web page says 1.3V, but maybe the VID value is identified
differently by a desktop motherboard. So, even though it requests
1.3V in mobile coding, a desktop regulator may interpret it
differently.)

In any case, if that is indeed what you got, if you want to sell
it, there may still be a few people with S478 FSB800 motherboards
who wouldn't mind owning one. In your Ebay advert, post the
SL726 or equivalent code, the full title "Mobile Intel Pentium 4
Processor", and someone will buy it. Or, overclock the hell out
of it and enjoy it yourself. It is supposed to run cooler than
your average 3.06GHz/FSB533 processor.

HTH,
Paul
 
N

NRS

Right on Target:

The FSB is running at 133
The Multiplier is locked at x12.
The Core Voltage is 1.26V but I moved it to 1.3 to get rid of the
Hardware alert on boot and it runs smooth.

Paul are you saying I basically can't use this thing in a P4PE because
of the 133 Bus yielding such a slow clock?
 
D

DaveW

I have a P4PE motherboard running the P4 3.06 GHz CPU and I have it
correctly identified and it works correctly. But I am using the original
BIOS that came with it. You may want to try reverting to an earlier BIOS
version.
 
P

Paul

"NRS" said:
Right on Target:

The FSB is running at 133
The Multiplier is locked at x12.
The Core Voltage is 1.26V but I moved it to 1.3 to get rid of the
Hardware alert on boot and it runs smooth.

Paul are you saying I basically can't use this thing in a P4PE because
of the 133 Bus yielding such a slow clock?

Yes. I forgot to mention that in a FSB400 or FSB533 motherboard,
the thing is pretty useless. At least the P4PE has an overclocking
option, where you can use a 200Mhz CPU clock, then place one stick
only, of DDR400 double sided RAM in slot 1. But 200 x 12 = 2.4GHz,
and I expect that would be pretty disappointing. As I understand it,
the P4PE won't do an ounce over 200MHz clock, so I don't think
you can get to 3GHz by overclocking on that motherboard. If you
are happy with a cool-running 2.4GHz processor, then by all means
use it.

A FSB800 motherboard, like the P4C800-E Deluxe, can go to FSB1200.
You can use two sticks of DDR600 RAM in dual channel, on the
P4C800-E, with a 1:1 RAM ratio, or if you only have DDR400 RAM,
you can crank the ram divider down to 3:2 ratio.

The way your mobile processor works, it has two multiplier values.
The x12 is the starting value, and considering the nominal
rating your processor has got, of 3.06GHz at FSB533, the "working"
multiplier is 3.06/0.133 = x23.

The datasheet for your processor is here. I've copied the text
for the Speedstep thing, that allows switching from x12 to x23.

http://www.intel.com/design/mobile/datashts/25302804.pdf

"Enhanced Intel SpeedStep Technology

The mobile Intel Pentium 4 processor, when used in conjunction with
the requisite Intel SpeedStep technology applet or its equivalent,
supports Enhanced Intel SpeedStep technology. Enhanced Intel
SpeedStep technology allows the processor to switch between two
core frequencies automatically based on CPU demand, without having
to reset the processor or change the FSB frequency. The processor
has two bus ratios and voltages programmed into it instead of one
and the GHI# signal controls which bus ratio and voltage is used.
After reset, the processor will start in the lower of its two core
frequencies, the Battery Optimized mode. An operating mode
transition to the high core frequency can be made by setting GHI#
low, putting the processor into the Deep Sleep state, regulating
to the new VID output, and returning to the Normal state. This puts
the processor into the high core frequency, or Maximum Performance
mode. Going through these steps with GHI# set high, transitions the
processor back to the low core frequency operating mode. The
processor will drive the VID[4:0] pins with the VID of the current
operating mode and the system logic is required to regulate the core
voltage within specification for the driven VID."

Now, on a desktop board, the GHI# and DPSLP# signals are called
TESTHI11 and TESTHI12. According to some Intel info, recommended
practice on a desktop board, is to short those two signals together
and connect them via a pullup to VCC. For perfect flexibility,
those two signals should be separated. If the DPSLP# and GHI# signals
go low at the same time, DPSLP# could sample a value of logic 1
on the GHI# signal, which would continue to request the x12 multiplier.
If the two signals were separated, you could set GHI# to logic zero
separately, then cause DPSLP# to transition low, and the new value of
GHI# would be sampled. I think these signals are driven by the
mobile chipset, but you could fake it with a couple of switches
connected to ground. The hard part will be figuring out whether
TESTHI11 and TESTHI12 are shorted together, and whether they can
be separated or not.

http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.c..._frm/thread/32b31feb6c4beca6/1da7bf9d0bc50989

I suppose another option, would be to place plastic sleeving
over the GHI# and DPSLP# pins on the processor, so they cannot
contact the socket. Then run thin insulated wire from those two
pins, outside the socket area. Then, you would place separate pullup
resistors on them to VCC, your two switches to ground, and "command"
the mobile processor to change states.

As to why I'm suggesting the P4C800-E motherboard, the 875 Northbridge
is the only one I trust to go to FSB1200. The 865PE motherboards,
like the P4P800 family, sometimes have video artifact problems at
high overclock, so would not be my first choice for a mobile P4
experiment. If you can get a P4P800 with an early serial number
(just after the P4P/P4C boards were released), the 865PE Northbridges
on those boards work just as good as an 875. The 865PE's got crappy
after Intel had time to properly bin them by operating speed.

So, your options are:
1) 2.4GHz via setting the clock to max on P4PE.
2) 3.06GHz on P4PE, via following the appropriate sequence of steps
on the GHI# and DPSLP# signals. The CPU clock must remain at
133MHz while you are doing that (you don't want a surprise, if
the clock is set to 200MHz, and suddenly the multiplier is x23!).
Normally GHI# and DPSLP# are high (via their pullups). Ground GHI#
via a switch to ground. Next ground DPSLP# momentarily. When
the switch is open again, and the separate pullup on DPSLP# pulls
it high, the processor should be x23 and awake. Return GHI# to
logic 1 by opening its switch, ready for the next boot cycle.
3) Purchase a P4C800-E and set the clock to 300MHz. Use 3:2 RAM
ratio (DDR266 setting) for some DDR400 RAM, and it will be run
at exactly DDR400 rates. Set AGP/PCI clock speed manually to
66.66/33.33 MHz setting, to ensure the hub clock stays at 66Mhz.

HTH,
Paul
 
T

timmy

thats correct, with the latest p4pe bios release and one stick of
ddr400, the board will do 200mhz fsb with a stock p4 800mhz cpu.
Otherwise, you can only run stock 533mhz(133x4) cpu and considering
your multiplier shows "12x", it's probably a safe bet you have a
mobile chip...
 
P

Paul

These are the threads on Abxzone that mention the SL726:

Original "Bigtoe" discovery:
http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59931&highlight=sl726

P4P800 doesn't work ? :
http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92287&highlight=sl726

Looks like there are BIOS revision issues - perhaps microcode is
missing in the later BIOS revisions. I find it hard to believe
that Asus would add code to the BIOS, to prevent a mobile from
working - that is too much work for them. In any case,
the original discovery was fun.

Paul
 
P

Paul

These are the threads on Abxzone that mention the SL726:

Original "Bigtoe" discovery:
http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59931&highlight=sl726

P4P800 doesn't work ? :
http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92287&highlight=sl726

Looks like there are BIOS revision issues - perhaps microcode is
missing in the later BIOS revisions. I find it hard to believe
that Asus would add code to the BIOS, to prevent a mobile from
working - that is too much work for them. In any case,
the original discovery was fun.

Paul

A search on GHI and DPSLP, dug up this Intel doc. Pg.9
shows how the computer enters SLP#, DPSLP# is pulsed low,
and samples GHI# which is fixed at logic 0 (GND).
A short time after DPSLP# falling edge, the multiplier
changes to the "normal" value, in your case x23.

http://www.intel.com/design/intarch/designgd/25131902.pdf

Of course, this doesn't solve the details of what the
current signals TESTHI11 and TESTHI12 are doing and where
they are connected. It is just meant to illustrate the
correct sequence for triggering a multiplier change. Observing
the SLP# signal would help determine that the processor
is sleeping, and is ready for the transition. The Intel
document mentions the BIOS using S1 sleep state, to cause
SLP# to be activated.

Paul
 
P

Paul

"N´far said:
Hi Poul,

I think i owe you this one...

http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.c..._frm/thread/32b31feb6c4beca6/1da7bf9d0bc50989

I never tried the motherboard multiplier modification. My mobile CPU has
been running fine together with my P4P800SE (FSB200/x12/2.4Ghz/Vcore1.6).

I found some posts, one in German, another in an oriental language,
but I cannot tell from those, if anyone has succeeded in doing a
GHI# hack or not. At least this Intel doc, documents how to add
logic to a desktop chipset, to allow running a mobile at full
speed. I find their method of connecting 3.3V logic to the
1.5V interfaces, interesting... Motherboard manufacturers
never add programmable logic to motherboards, so don't expect
to find this kind of support on a desktop motherboard. I
still think a manual solution with a resistor and switch
will work.

http://www.intel.com/design/intarch/designgd/25131902.pdf

Paul
 

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