Notice of intention to complain

  • Thread starter Clarence \(Lancy\) Howard
  • Start date
J

Jake Dodd

James Egan said:
He's not planning on suing (civil law) them but is claiming that the
data protection act (criminal law) has been contravened because
symantec software is preventing the machine from booting..to an extent
that the cmos can't be edited or erased.

I didn't know any software could do that.

The dreaded CMOS/MBR/FAT32 virus claim should have clued you
in that he is talking out of his ass. Sounds like he went off on a tangent
and mucked up an uninstallation and his self importance has got him all
up about suing Symantec.

Bottom line is he wants Symantec to communicate with him, which isn't
really too much to ask. Making posts with wild claims and threats about
lawsuits isn't the way to go about this IMO.
 
D

Don Kelloway

Clarence (Lancy) Howard said:
Hi Art

Oh dear, I had planned to go out tonight, but the weather says otherwise.
Looks like I'm gonna be nursing a sick machine with a bottle, or two, of
wine. Anyway, many thanks for your help


The machine will not allow Windows to start (even in safe mode). It just
hangs. Everything stops except the picture on the monitor. Your suggestion
is, alas, of no help.


The only files that are of any use are NDD.EXE and it's help file, plus
DISKEDIT and it's help file. These should be burned to a DOS CDR along
with
F-Prot for DOS. The rest of it is of no use to man nor beast and should be
scrapped..

I don't see any point in keeping NDD or DISKEDIT on the hard disk. I would
only envisage needing them when I can't get at the hard disk.

Clarence (Lancy) Howard
(e-mail address removed) (remove one of the 7s)


Granted I'm entering this thread very late in the game, but if the issue is
with the BIOS has any consideration been given to removing the hdd from the
system in question and installing as a slave to a second system for the
purpose of retrieving whatever data is desired?
 
C

Clarence \(Lancy\) Howard

The dreaded CMOS/MBR/FAT32 virus claim should have clued you
in that he is talking out of his ass. Sounds like he went off on a tangent
and mucked up an uninstallation and his self importance has got him all
up about suing Symantec.

Not so Jake. Actually, I have to agree that your conclusion was the first
thing that came to my own mind. However, when I sat down and retraced my
actions I have concluded (resonably) that I am not the cause.

The dump of the MBR that I took before I started the uninstall and the dump
that took afterwards are exactly the same. The problem therefore rests with
Symantec.
Bottom line is he wants Symantec to communicate with him, which isn't
really too much to ask. .............

You are absolutely correct.

I would be truly happy to congratulate, and openly thank, Symantec in this
forum if they would bother to contact me and help.
......... Making posts with wild claims and threats about
lawsuits isn't the way to go about this IMO.

How else do you suggest I go about it. I am extremely interested in your
suggestions. I can find no way of contacting them directly so I have left
requests in their web pages (over and over again). This was before I posted.

The action that has been performed by their software is illegal. Corrupting
the CMOS is not, to my knowledge, a part of the Win32, specs as set by
Microsoft. Neither am I aware of Microsoft encouraging anybody to mess
around with the code in the MBR. Even in a civil suit, I do not expect that
Symantec have stated that they are going to mess around with this stuff,
then say "Please hit the I agree button".

Why should I not report this?

Clarence (Lancy) Howard
(e-mail address removed) (remove one of the 7s)
 
H

Heather

Clarence (Lancy) Howard said:
Heather said


Your observation is very relevant. The faulty machine is, indeed,
running ME


It's Friday night and I'll probably go and get pissed. However, I will
pay
your chosen group a visit tomorrow. I am interested in what Noel Paton
might have to tell me. A little bit of insight can go a very long way.

Hope that helped and Noel reads this news group quite often. What
version of Norton is on that ME computer?? Might as well ask now before
he does. Mind you, he will tell you to take it TOTALLY off the
computer, which is a job and a half. Perhaps the both of you should go
out and *get pissed* before (or after) starting that job, lol. He is in
the UK as well.
Sorry, I dunno what this remark is about.

Sorry...that was to our resident griper about improper posting....he
never offers any other advice.
Thanks, Heather. I do believe that I know what is wrong with the
machine. I
do actually think that there is a possibility that I might be able to
fix it
myself. Unfortunately, the machine has data on board that is important
to
the owner. Therefore, I am very reluctant to take a chance based on a
hunch.
I could never forgive myself if my actions destroyed this data (it
simply
can not be replaced).

Copy it over as another poster suggested. I hope that you can get it up
and running. I have its twin sitting behind me and just went to XP last
September, so remember all of its foibles well.

See you on the MS ng.....

Cheers...Heather (Canada)
 
C

Clarence \(Lancy\) Howard

Granted I'm entering this thread very late in the game, but if the issue
is
with the BIOS has any consideration been given to removing the hdd from the
system in question and installing as a slave to a second system for the
purpose of retrieving whatever data is desired?

Simple solutions are always the best. Now, why didn't I think of that
(obviously because I am an idiot).
Best regards, from Don Kelloway of Commodon Communications

No, it is the very best regards from me to you.

Not only can I get the data but I can also stick an old hard disk that I
have into the sick machine. Boot it up and clear the CMOS. Then I can return
the original disk to the sick machine and FDISK it.

Jeeze, your solution is so simple.

Thank you so much Don. I am greatly indebted to you.

Clarence (Lancy) Howard
(e-mail address removed) (remove one of the 7s)
 
J

Jake Dodd

Clarence (Lancy) Howard said:
Not so Jake. Actually, I have to agree that your conclusion was the first
thing that came to my own mind. However, when I sat down and retraced my
actions I have concluded (resonably) that I am not the cause.

I'll take your word for that, especially since there are so many in the same
boat WRT attempted removal of Symantec's products. The whole virus
angle seems like a wild goose chase to me. The claims about Symantec's
admitting to mucking around with CMOS and MBR wasn't evident to me
in the posted links. There was mention of issues with the clock only as far
as I could see, and the newsgroup you posted to was a W95 group for
Symantec - not a WinME group (those two OSes are notably different).
The dump of the MBR that I took before I started the uninstall and the dump
that took afterwards are exactly the same. The problem therefore rests with
Symantec.

So now you are saying that they didn't muck with the MBR? There are also
utilities to save out and or compare CMOS settings - you could compare
this too.
You are absolutely correct.

....and so are you... it is not a good thing for such a company's PR to have
someone not getting at least some response.
I would be truly happy to congratulate, and openly thank, Symantec in this
forum if they would bother to contact me and help.

I'm not sure they even visit the ALT hierarchy groups anymore, there is
such a large amount of crap.
How else do you suggest I go about it. I am extremely interested in your
suggestions. I can find no way of contacting them directly so I have left
requests in their web pages (over and over again). This was before I posted.

Just stick to verifiable facts and ask straight questions without any suggestions
about lawsuits or theories about CMOS and MBR mucking to make data
purposefully inaccessible. You make yourself look like a "can o' worms" and
any tech support person might just want to let someone else handle your call.
The action that has been performed by their software is illegal.

If indeed it was their action that gave you this result. This is a claim you
are making before you have been able to resolve the problem and collect
evidence of malfeasance. A physically damaged disk could give the same
results you are having.
Corrupting
the CMOS is not, to my knowledge, a part of the Win32, specs as set by
Microsoft.

Corrupting CMOS usually results in the reloading of default settings.

Microsoft has nothing to do with CMOS, CMOS works with the BIOS
version that the motherboard manufacturer decided to implement. These
are chips, not software
Neither am I aware of Microsoft encouraging anybody to mess
around with the code in the MBR.

Microsoft led the way in this...before it was considered a no-mans-land
and then Microsoft started dicking around with it.
Even in a civil suit, I do not expect that
Symantec have stated that they are going to mess around with this stuff,
then say "Please hit the I agree button".

I still don't see where they state that they do indeed do this.
Why should I not report this?

Report it if you feel you must. I only suggest that you change your demeanor
so that they won't be tempted to just ignore you. Threatening a lawsuit may
be a good way to keep your neighbors dog from shitting on your lawn, but
tech support might not want to deal with you directly without passing your
complaint to their legal department first (wasting time). I can just hear them
laughing about CMOS/MBR/FAT32 and CMOS/MBR/NTFS viruses now.

I do hope they contact you and are able to sort this out for you.
 
J

Jake Dodd

Don Kelloway said:
Granted I'm entering this thread very late in the game, but if the issue is
with the BIOS has any consideration been given to removing the hdd from the
system in question and installing as a slave to a second system for the
purpose of retrieving whatever data is desired?

new(ish) post

Subject: Prohibiting access to data


There was no issue with the BIOS, maybe not even the CMOS. I assume
that even if he tries your excellent suggestion, there may still be a problem
with the disk. At first the machine was running the copying software to burn
to CDR. Then, conjecture may have gotten the better of him.

Booting to floppy means the BIOS is likely okay (but may be set to
default settings in CMOS (losing a HD maybe?)). A CMOS battery
problem may have sent him hunting wild geese, who knows.
 
C

Clarence \(Lancy\) Howard

To all present

Thanks to your kind words and advice, I have the data. Indeed, sincerest
thanks to all here who have attempted to help me in this endeavour. I know I
have been bouncing about like a raving lunatic for the past two days but
this place was my only hope. I had spent the last week struggling with this
problem.

Perhaps this message can conclude this thread.

If you feel like being amused by the trials and calamities of others then
read on. Otherwise, thanks again for all your help.

I have to admit that it's been a bumpy road the last few hours. I had to
check the net for instructions about the master/slave relationship (jumper
settings). I havn't done this since the early 1990s. I then got cold feet.
Suppose there actually is a nasty beastie virus on that disk. So I rummaged
and brought out an old Mitsubishi (Apricot) computer. Now I have the lids
off three machines. I connect up the 40GB sick drive as the slave to the old
machine. I decide to boot from a floppy in case I have the jumpers back to
front. All goes well, burp.... error! configuration error. It's okay it's
just found the new drive. Save new settings and exit. System boots up from
floppy. C: exists and is okay (Win 98SE on board). D: exists and is okay
(SickME on board).

I create a directory on the old drive and XCOPY D:\MYDOCU~1\*.* /S

The data starts whizzing past on the screen. I think I'm brill and go and
make a coffee. Come back and take a directory listing on the old drive. The
data is there. Happy days. Curiousity got the better of me when I was having
coffee. I have to find out whether there is a virus on board. Stick F-Prot
into the CD drive and scan drive D:. The machine is a Pentium I so it goes
chug, chug, chug. F-Prot reports nothing. After about 5 minutes I get board
and stop F-Prot.

Okay, methinks. Boot old computer from it's own hard disk. I disconnect the
40GB slave and remove floppy. Machine boots up (have to save new settings
again). All is well. Open File Manager, right click C: click properties. A
2GB drive with Free Space 1.3GB (Aaaargh, where did the data go - panic -
panic). Close file manager, look at desktop. Panic over, it's a minimal 98SE
install and Microsoft Office is not on the machine. There is only
Wordperfect 6.1 Win and Dataease 5.13 Win. Go get a CDR and stick it in the
machine. Where's Nero??? Oh no, the CD drive is one of the early read-only
contraptions. I could now scream, but I check round the back of the old
machine. It's okay, there are USB ports. Damn it, they will be USB 1.1. I
will have to load drivers for the flash drive because the machine is 98SE.
Is it worth messing around on this old machine? I have the data, but I still
have no idea if it's okay. Office isn't there so I can't open any of the
Word or Excel documents.

Okay, calm down. Just take the sick disk to my own machine and repeat the
process. Eventually, I do get the data (I burn 2 complete copies to 2
different CDRs and will keep the folder on my own machine for a while, just
in case). Anything I have opened seems okay. I do a bit of rummaging around
the sick disk. I notice there's a couple of .ISU files so I decide to delete
them as a read/write test. Worked fine. Disk Free space seemed to match the
deletions.

Now what do I do. I can't just stick the sick disk back in the faulty
machine. I go rummaging again and find a 320MB Panasonic hard disk. I think
it must now be a dud but that won't matter. I connect it to the sick machine
and decide to boot from a floppy (hard disk squeals then a configuration
error .... so do I save settings and exit?). I decide to check through
every aspect of the CMOS. Some of it contains high ASCII characters but I
bumble through it, guessing to my best ability. Machine boots from floppy.
C: is there and contains DOS 6.2. Okay, I allow the machine to boot itself.
The old hard drive actually still worked. Sure enough a little DOS batch
file menu appears. Jeeze, you wouldn't believe how fast WordPerfect 5.1 for
DOS runs on a Pentium III. It's instantaneous.

Okay, I screw the sick disk back into it's place in the sick machine. Oh
buggeration. I've forgotten to reset the jumpers. I take it back out and
then put it back in again. I decide to boot from a floppy and FDISK it.
Configuration does not produce an error it just reports that things have
changed. So I'm at the command line and I type FDISK but...... I can't do
it.

I'm in two minds whether I should just do a SYS C: from a ME boot disk or
FDISK the hard drive.
There was no issue with the BIOS, maybe not even the CMOS. I assume
that even if he tries your excellent suggestion, there may still be a problem
with the disk. At first the machine was running the copying software to burn
to CDR. Then, conjecture may have gotten the better of him.

I'm now of the opinion that there was a problem in the CMOS (the high ASCII
characters are an indicator of that). To be quite honest, I could not swear
that it was caused by Norton, though I firmly believe that it was.
Booting to floppy means the BIOS is likely okay (but may be set to
default settings in CMOS (losing a HD maybe?)). A CMOS battery
problem may have sent him hunting wild geese, who knows.

I think the battery is okay (not sure though). Even though F-Prot reports no
virus, I know there is weird code in the MBR, especially Sector 2. I will
not boot this machine from the hard disk.

My decision now is simply whether to FDISK and reload ME, Office and
internet software, or SYS C: and manually delete references and remaining
folders belonging to Norton. You might find this odd, I would have loved to
FDISK this machine just a few hours ago. However, there was no way I was
gonna track down where email data is, etc. It's hard enough to do when you
can open the programs and find from within them where the data and settings
information is kept.

Ah well.... It's 2.30am. There are bits of three machines scattered about
the place; screws and screwdrivers, etc. I'm going to bed. I'll sleep on
this and clean up in the morning.

Thanks to all here.

Clarence (Lancy) Howard
(e-mail address removed) (remove one of the 7s)
 
G

Gabriele Neukam

On that special day, Peter Seiler, ([email protected]) said...
Have a nice weekend (in NY?)

Every decent regular in this group knows that she is Canadian, and
asking her *such* a question, is close to an offense.


Gabriele Neukam

(e-mail address removed)
 
H

Heather

Gabriele Neukam said:
On that special day, Peter Seiler, ([email protected]) said...


Every decent regular in this group knows that she is Canadian, and
asking her *such* a question, is close to an offense.
ROFL!! It is a good thing I read this post before replying to Peter
Seiler. I take it he does not know that calling a Canadian an American
is a definite no-no!!! Perhaps you know a good analogy for it *in
deutsch* so that he would understand.

No, my dear Peter.....I live in Toronto, Canada. I have never been to
NY and do not intend to ever go there.

Canada Rules!! (G)
 
H

Heather

Peter Seiler said:
hope, you do not mean not me?

Sorry Peter, but I did mean you....however I was not in a good mood and
must apologize. I top post most of time because that is the way it is
done on the Microsoft news groups.

I don't have a *sig line* in news groups and probably never will. You
once wondered how I did what I did when replying (and confusing the heck
out of me, grin)...I highlight and delete, that's all. I find that your
arguments against whatever it is are as confusing as all get out.

Btw, you obviously speak a bit of french as well, which does make some
parts of your posts incomprehensible to those that don't, but it is
easier for a Canadian (G). I wish I could speak German as well as you
speak English...but I forgot it long ago.

Cheers...Heather (IN CANADA)
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Heather said:
No, my dear Peter.....I live in Toronto, Canada. I have never been to
NY and do not intend to ever go there.

Well, say bye-bye to this cherry pie I was baking for you ...
Canada Rules!! (G)

No, the Queen rules. ;-)
 
H

Heather

Beauregard T. Shagnasty said:
Well, say bye-bye to this cherry pie I was baking for you ...

LOL!! And along with your other talents, you bake too. I am so
impressed!!!
No, the Queen rules. ;-)

Nope....she is merely a figurehead. Our Prime Minister rules...once he
figures out how to do it (he's new).

I think Americans have *Regina* envy. Poor things only have that damn
redneck as President. No Royal Family. No pageantry. No Upper Class.
And our flag is prettier. (VBG)

Snickering to myself as the above is all done *tongue in cheek* should
any Yank take offence. I can think of a couple that will, but who
cares.

XX Figgs (and I will be down for cherry pie coz you are not in NY)
 
J

James Egan

I think Americans have *Regina* envy. Poor things only have that damn
redneck as President. No Royal Family. No pageantry. No Upper Class.
And our flag is prettier. (VBG)

At his meeting with Queen Elizabeth last night, George W. Bush turned
to the Queen and said: "As I'm the President, I'm thinking of
changing how my great country is referred to, and I'm thinking that
it should be a Kingdom." The Queen replied, "I'm sorry Mr. Bush, but
to be a Kingdom, you have to have a King in charge - and you're not
a King."

George Bush thought a while and then said: "How about a Principality
then?" To which the Queen replied, "Again, to be a Principality you
have to be a Prince - and you're not a Prince, Mr. Bush."

George thought long and hard and came up with "How about an Empire
then?" The Queen, getting a little annoyed by now, replied : "Sorry
again, Mr. Bush, but to be an Empire you must have an Emperor in
charge and you are not an Emperor."

Before George W could utter another word, The Queen said: "I think
you're doing quite nicely as a Country."
 
O

optikl

James said:
At his meeting with Queen Elizabeth last night, George W. Bush turned
to the Queen and said: "As I'm the President, I'm thinking of
changing how my great country is referred to, and I'm thinking that
it should be a Kingdom." The Queen replied, "I'm sorry Mr. Bush, but
to be a Kingdom, you have to have a King in charge - and you're not
a King."

George Bush thought a while and then said: "How about a Principality
then?" To which the Queen replied, "Again, to be a Principality you
have to be a Prince - and you're not a Prince, Mr. Bush."

George thought long and hard and came up with "How about an Empire
then?" The Queen, getting a little annoyed by now, replied : "Sorry
again, Mr. Bush, but to be an Empire you must have an Emperor in
charge and you are not an Emperor."

Before George W could utter another word, The Queen said: "I think
you're doing quite nicely as a Country."

I take it you'll let me borrow that one. It's too good not to repeat.
 
J

James Egan

I take it you'll let me borrow that one. It's too good not to repeat.

It's from an email doing the rounds a while back so not an original
from me. Seemed to fit in with Heather's thoughts.


Jim :)
 
H

Heather

James Egan said:
It's from an email doing the rounds a while back so not an original
from me. Seemed to fit in with Heather's thoughts.
Jim...that is absolutely hilarious!! I never saw it before, but I too
will be sending it on to a few of my American friends. The ones that I
know will take it as *just joshing*. (G)

Thanks....Heather
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Heather said:
XX Figgs (and I will be down for cherry pie coz you are not in NY)

Yes I am in NY... a bit east of Rochester.

But you'd better hurry, or there will not be any pie for you.
 
H

Heather

Beauregard T. Shagnasty said:
Yes I am in NY... a bit east of Rochester.

Sheesh...I could take that Lake Ontario ferry and be there in no
time....except I think it quit running again, lol. And Rochester is not
NYC, which is what I really was referring to. Dementia strikes again.
But you'd better hurry, or there will not be any pie for you.

That's OK.....not a dessert person. A CC & Pepsi will do just fine!

XX Figgs
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Heather said:
Sheesh...I could take that Lake Ontario ferry and be there in no
time....except I think it quit running again, lol. And Rochester is
not NYC, which is what I really was referring to. Dementia strikes
again.

Yup. The ferry is dead. It is being sold at auction. Shame, too, as it
was a good service, but run by terrible management.
That's OK.....not a dessert person. A CC & Pepsi will do just fine!

Alright. The pie is gone (yum). CC is available close by in the strip
mall at the end of my village. Give at least 15 minutes notice. <g>
 

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