New Vuescan version

[Evo2Me]

Thank you! But the thin skinned moron is far too clueless and will now
start stalking you as well in a knee jerk reaction.

Golden, don't thank me. Personally I find your messages as moronic and
badly worded as you seem to perceive other people. I just took
exception to Henk's automatic reply triggered by a filter on "Don".

You could have had yourself a warmer welcome - although you will
profess you are not out for warm welcomes - if you'd try to be polite.
Being offensive on purpose is *not* the same as outspoken, open or
direct!

 

[Bruce]

My take on this is that Don is a bright guy with much to offer, but he
has a personality disorder and has decided that he wants to be the
idolized guru of this group, "helping thousands". To that end he tries
to help newbies and drive away knowledgeable posters who he sees as
rivals (and who call him out when he makes mistakes and acts
irrationally). Misrepresentation and propaganda tactics don't bother
him as he seems able to easily rationalize anything, so arguing with
him, even on a simple point of fact, is futile. Hence more and more
regulars here have set up kill files for him. As for Golden, in his
entire 1.5 year trail on the Internet, with the exception of one thread
on a Photoshop group, every one of his posts is in a thread with Don.
As Don has been accusing others here of posting under pseudonyms, I
assume he believes it's fair game.

 

[Golden]

Robert said he was having problems with the new version and you take

that as an ad for the product?

Oh, come on! You don't blast "New Vuescan version" all over the Subject
line and then go on and on about how great it is and all the new
features and whatnot. That's spam!

He's asking for help with a "problem"? Yeah, right.

But, look, I don't care. If he wants to advertise Vuescan that's fine
with me! It's one short message. Big deal! What I don't like is the
mindless morons who follow that with insults for days on end.

Golden

 

[Golden]

Now how many times are *you* going to post and

whine that those complaining about Don are whiners ?

Oh, here we go... Look, I can complain until the cows come home and
it's not going to even make a dent in the volume of whining those
clueless morons do.

At least I'm trying to make this group more readable. What purpose is
there to keep mobbing a guy who's IGNORING them? Can you tell me that?

They don't even answer the friggin' question for goodness sake! Just
scream insults. What good is that?

Now imagine I just joined. I get an answer from Don. And then a gaggle
of clueless morons attack him without answering my question and keep
doing it day after day after day.

Do you really think I'm gonna go: Hmmm? I think I'll believe the
clueless morons who didn't answer but just shout insults, over the calm
guy who actually answered and is ignoring them?

Come on!

Golden

 

[Golden]

Either way he's just proven that, like the rest of his moronic buddies,

Not very diplomatic.

But true! How would you describe what Hankie boy is doing? Is that
diplomatic?

I think the real issue here is that the regulars on this group are
trying to take it back and assert that their norms are the norms of the
group, not those of Don. Multiple people saying the same thing affirms
this. If this were a regulated community, Don would have been
expelled/banished/exiled, but it's not, so this is the next best thing
we can do to preserve a sense of community here.

Yeah but do you really think you can do that by not answering the
question and just posting a bunch of "He's a troll" messages?

If this were a regulated community it's people like that who would be
expelled not Don! Like I said, I don't care either way, but love him or
hate him, he doesn't do that. And if nothing else, you have to give him
that. So as long as he doesn't shout insults he's got the right to free
speech like all others.

So if you want to preserve the sense of community here, you and
everyone else should also tell the morons to cut it out. Post a serious
response but don't just scream insults for days and days and days. If
we all complained they would stop. Look, even Hankie boy stopped after
a single complaint!

Anyways. Nuff said.

Golden

 

[Don]

I would agree that Don can be more then a little annoying but the key
is I don't think he sets out to be.

Thank you, I think...? ;o)

Seriously though, you are correct. I only set out to state facts and
try to help people. Any annoyances are in the eye of the beholder.

Unfortunately, there seem to be a few "beholders" here who are
perennially primed to be annoyed no matter what. Predictably, but
sadly, that will soon become apparent after this is posted... :-/

However, as you can see, I don't hold a grudge either. If people post
calm and reasonable messages I'm more than happy to respond in kind,
although, repeat offenders (flame baits) will be ignored permanently.

Reasonable people can agree to disagree agreeably.

But the surest way to extinguish a flame war is to deprive it the
oxygen of response. I will, therefore, and as always, refuse to engage
and respond to impending and unprovoked insults which will now
commence from various directions i.e. the usual suspects.

Don.

 

[Golden]

As for Golden, in his

entire 1.5 year trail on the Internet, with the exception of one thread
on a Photoshop group, every one of his posts is in a thread with Don.
As Don has been accusing others here of posting under pseudonyms, I
assume he believes it's fair game.

Why am I not surprised. Look, how many times do I have to tell you I
don't give a flying pancake about Don. Which part of that don't ya
understand?

So in your world everyone who doesn't immediately attack him is either
in cahoots with him or a pseudonym or what have you? Eh?

In your world it's impossible to just be really ticked off at morons
who don't contribute anything but just clog up the group? You just love
what Hankie boy is doing, don't ya?

You can't even imagine, can you, that some people just like to lurk in
peace and read quietly without being bombarded with moronic messages.
Man! Why do I even bother?

Golden

 

[Scott W]

Oh, come on! You don't blast "New Vuescan version" all over the Subject
line and then go on and on about how great it is and all the new
features and whatnot. That's spam!

He's asking for help with a "problem"? Yeah, right.

But, look, I don't care. If he wants to advertise Vuescan that's fine
with me! It's one short message. Big deal! What I don't like is the
mindless morons who follow that with insults for days on end.

Golden

Robert has been posting on the news groups from some time and none of
what I have seem him post comes close to being spam. He has a total of
17 posts that have something to do with VueScan, Don has 148 posts that
deal with VueScan.

If Don wants to give his opinion on VueScan that is fine, but he used
innuendo to make it look like Robert was doing something wrong. If Don
hates VueScan and more importantly the person who makes it then fine,
but Don not only attacks VueScan but also anyone who dares post about
it.

Scott

 

[Roger S.]

Golden, you're not helping make this newsgroup any better by resorting
to personal attacks and calling people morons. Why do you still come
here if everyone's a moron?

If someone asks for help with a new version of Silverfast, Nikonscan,
Vuescan, Photoshop, or whatever, so long as it's related to scanning it
fits within this forum. Users come here to help each other improve
their scan quality and better understand the tools of scanning.

The second paragraph of the original post was clearly a request for
help using the new "feature." Any update about improvements in a
commonly used scanning program would be helpful in my opinon. "IR
cleaning fixed in Vuescan 8.3.4X" would be a helpful topic to me and I
would read it. Don would then chime in that the program is fatally
flawed, and can't produce quality results, but he isn't really trying
to help. If Vuescan info is not helpful to you, and you don't care
about new versions, read a different thread. I skip threads on
Nikonscan or new flatbed scanners not because they are "advertisements"
for different products, but because the info is useless to me.

 

[Roger S.]

Golden, you can't scream about civility and then be rude to the regular
posters here. Why don't you start cutting out your own insults and
setting an example?

If this were a regulated community it's people like that who would be
expelled not Don! Like I said, I don't care either way, but love him or
hate him, he doesn't do that. And if nothing else, you have to give him
that. So as long as he doesn't shout insults he's got the right to free
speech like all others.

Don is quite insulting in a different way. He couches his insults in
objective-sounding language, but you're right, he doesn't directly call
people cursewords. He does make belittling statements, continually
questions the competency of those who disagree with him, and makes
outrageous statements like users who care about the quality of their
images only do X, Y, and Z, as if the rest of us who don't follow his
advice are too stupid and incompetent to determine image quality for
ourselves.

After being annoyed at him for a while, I no longer feel that way, as I
don't think Don is *able* to understand that he is being insulting, why
people react negatively to him, or how others think and feel. I think
his exasperation about other people behaving irrationally and
emotionally is a good clue that he doesn't operate the same way at all.
The same with his exasperation about people "reading into" his remarks
and finding meaning in the subtext. I think the guess above about a
neurological disorder may well be the case, and while it's impossible
to diagnose over the net, I'm thinking Asperger's. This is not meant
as an insult, but maybe to help people better accept him for the way he
is and make this forum more pleasant. "Normal" folks can have the
below traits to a lesser degree.

"Persons with AS show marked deficiencies in social skills, have
difficulties with transitions or changes and prefer sameness. They
often have obsessive routines and may be preoccupied with a particular
subject of interest. They have a great deal of difficulty reading
nonverbal cues (body language) and very often the individual with AS
has difficulty determining proper body space. Often overly sensitive to
sounds, tastes, smells, and sights, the person with AS may prefer soft
clothing, certain foods, and be bothered by sounds or lights no one
else seems to hear or see. It's important to remember that the person
with AS perceives the world very differently. Therefore, many behaviors
that seem odd or unusual are due to those neurological differences and
not the result of intentional rudeness or bad behavior, and most
certainly not the result of "improper parenting".

By definition, those with AS have a normal IQ and many individuals
(although not all), exhibit exceptional skill or talent in a specific
area. Because of their high degree of functionality and their naiveté,
those with AS are often viewed as eccentric or odd and can easily
become victims of teasing and bullying. While language development
seems, on the surface, normal, individuals with AS often have deficits
in pragmatics and prosody. Vocabularies may be extraordinarily rich and
some children sound like "little professors." However, persons with AS
can be extremely literal and have difficulty using language in a social
context."

http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/aswhatisit.html

 

[Scott W]

Golden, you can't scream about civility and then be rude to the regular
posters here. Why don't you start cutting out your own insults and
setting an example?


Don is quite insulting in a different way. He couches his insults in
objective-sounding language, but you're right, he doesn't directly call
people cursewords. He does make belittling statements, continually
questions the competency of those who disagree with him, and makes
outrageous statements like users who care about the quality of their
images only do X, Y, and Z, as if the rest of us who don't follow his
advice are too stupid and incompetent to determine image quality for
ourselves.

After being annoyed at him for a while, I no longer feel that way, as I
don't think Don is *able* to understand that he is being insulting, why
people react negatively to him, or how others think and feel. I think
his exasperation about other people behaving irrationally and
emotionally is a good clue that he doesn't operate the same way at all.
The same with his exasperation about people "reading into" his remarks
and finding meaning in the subtext. I think the guess above about a
neurological disorder may well be the case, and while it's impossible
to diagnose over the net, I'm thinking Asperger's. This is not meant
as an insult, but maybe to help people better accept him for the way he
is and make this forum more pleasant. "Normal" folks can have the
below traits to a lesser degree.

"Persons with AS show marked deficiencies in social skills, have
difficulties with transitions or changes and prefer sameness. They
often have obsessive routines and may be preoccupied with a particular
subject of interest. They have a great deal of difficulty reading
nonverbal cues (body language) and very often the individual with AS
has difficulty determining proper body space. Often overly sensitive to
sounds, tastes, smells, and sights, the person with AS may prefer soft
clothing, certain foods, and be bothered by sounds or lights no one
else seems to hear or see. It's important to remember that the person
with AS perceives the world very differently. Therefore, many behaviors
that seem odd or unusual are due to those neurological differences and
not the result of intentional rudeness or bad behavior, and most
certainly not the result of "improper parenting".

By definition, those with AS have a normal IQ and many individuals
(although not all), exhibit exceptional skill or talent in a specific
area. Because of their high degree of functionality and their naiveté,
those with AS are often viewed as eccentric or odd and can easily
become victims of teasing and bullying. While language development
seems, on the surface, normal, individuals with AS often have deficits
in pragmatics and prosody. Vocabularies may be extraordinarily rich and
some children sound like "little professors." However, persons with AS
can be extremely literal and have difficulty using language in a social
context."

http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/aswhatisit.html

It is useful to look at an old thread where Don was having problem with
his Nikon scanner, we was mad at Nikon and mad at anyone who said Nikon
was not crap. Ed tried to help Don and Don jumped on him as being a
Nikon supporter.

http://groups.google.com/group/comp...e_frm/thread/392a03f4f6cb0240?q=vuescan&hl=en

When Don has a problem that others don't seem to have he jumps on them
in pretty insulting ways.

Scot

 

[Raphael Bustin]

Now imagine I just joined. I get an answer from Don. And then a gaggle
of clueless morons attack him without answering my question and keep
doing it day after day after day.

The problem is, half the time Don is pulling it out of his butt.

Do you really think I'm gonna go: Hmmm? I think I'll believe the
clueless morons who didn't answer but just shout insults, over the calm
guy who actually answered and is ignoring them?

Don is the ultimate passive-aggressive. And loves
every minute of it. He's not quite a troll, but the effect
is the same. Half of what goes on in this NG is either:

1. Bullshit posts from Don.
2. Folks bitching about Don.
3. Folks bitching about folks bitching about Don.

So chances are if you're a newbie to this NG, you're
going to get caught up in some of that. Question is,
which part will you see first?

In the end, it's just USENET, so you have to deal with
me and I have to deal with you and we both have to
deal with Don. Or we can all go killfile each other and
call it a day.

It's really beyond anyone's control whether a newbie
is going to be informed, misinformed, pleased, or
disappointed. Some of us are compelled to call BS
when we see it. It's not done for Don's benefit.


rafe b
www.terrapinphoto.com

 

[Raphael Bustin]

But the surest way to extinguish a flame war is to deprive it the
oxygen of response. I will, therefore, and as always, refuse to engage
and respond to impending and unprovoked insults which will now
commence from various directions i.e. the usual suspects.

A passive-aggressive pre-emptive strike. Perfect.

By your mark, any response to you makes me one of
"the usual suspects." You are of course the most polite
and civilized person in the room.

And yet in your wake is a never-ending trail of dissension,
argument, and ill-will.

Why is that, Don? Do you ever stop to think?


rafe b
www.terrapinphoto.com

 

[Oliver Vecernik]

Don is the ultimate passive-aggressive. And loves
every minute of it. He's not quite a troll, but the effect
is the same. Half of what goes on in this NG is either:

1. Bullshit posts from Don.
2. Folks bitching about Don.
3. Folks bitching about folks bitching about Don.

So chances are if you're a newbie to this NG, you're
going to get caught up in some of that. Question is,
which part will you see first?

In exactly that order.

In the end, it's just USENET, so you have to deal with
me and I have to deal with you and we both have to
deal with Don. Or we can all go killfile each other and
call it a day.

Killfiles may help to keep groups readable. Just do it. I for myself
didn't killfile anybody here, it's just a couple of weeks I'm following
this group.

But I'd like to learn from other peoples experiences and I bought VS,
because it supports my scanner (LS-5000) under Linux. The first posting
about this software came from Don. :-\

If VS is really crap (I agree it has bugs, no doubt about that) then I'd
like to hear what exactly goes wrong and how I can avoid it. I've got a
lot of negatives and slides to scan. It doesn't help a lot just bashing
about VS.

Obviously Don has quite some experiences in scanning and I'm sure to be
able to learn, but I must be able to follow. I'll start a new thread
about this with concrete questions.

 

[Golden]

Golden, you're not helping make this newsgroup any better by resorting

to personal attacks and calling people morons.

I'm sorry Roger but what do you call a guy like Hanky boy, then? Or
what he has been doing?

Why do you still come here if everyone's a moron?

That's exactly my point, man! There are plenty of wonderful people here
but a few morons try to spoil it for all the rest of us.

What do messages like "He's a troll" or "he talks out of his butt" for
days on end contribute? Tell me that? Community spirit, my foot.

And why is to yous guys ONE message from Don so much more annoying then
DOZENS and DOZENS of empty insults? Eh?

Think about it man, and reflect on it! Why has nobody answered me that?
Eh?

Golden

 

[Golden]

Golden, you can't scream about civility and then be rude to the regular

posters here. Why don't you start cutting out your own insults and
setting an example?

I tried asking them nicely and pleading with them the last time a few
weeks ago, but no joy. So it's time to call a spade a spade.

I'll ask you again. What do you call guys like that?

Golden

 

[Don]

Don is quite insulting in a different way. He couches his insults in
objective-sounding language, but you're right, he doesn't directly call
people cursewords. He does make belittling statements, continually
questions the competency of those who disagree with him, and makes
outrageous statements like users who care about the quality of their
images only do X, Y, and Z, as if the rest of us who don't follow his
advice are too stupid and incompetent to determine image quality for
ourselves. ....
"Persons with AS show marked deficiencies in social skills, have

....

Ergo, you conclude that since Don refuses to engage in pointless name
calling he must be mentally ill. Erm... Right. Interesting "logic".

Speaking of belittling statements and questioning the competency,
thank you, (armchair) doctor, for that false yet very condescending
diagnosis! You may rest assured I will not respond in kind.

Instead, and as always, here are a few calm and objective *facts*:

--- start ---

Indeed! That's why I stressed that I can't speak for your requirements


As I always say: Great! Enjoy!

You can download a watermarked version and try it out for yourself

Etc... etc... etc...
--- end ---

From that it follows that Don is respecting both the people and their
requirements as well as inviting them to make up their own mind.

Now, doctor, you were saying?

I know... How dares he be so reasonable! The cad! Only a mentally ill
person would do that! ;o)

Don.

 

[Don]

But I'd like to learn from other peoples experiences and I bought VS,
because it supports my scanner (LS-5000) under Linux. The first posting
about this software came from Don. :-\

So, what bothered you about the post, specifically? (Quotes in
context, please.)

Especially considering that - by your own admission - you just
recently joined to learn. The above would seem to suggest you already
made up your mind even though you're unfamiliar with the subject. So,
please correct this impression by supplied specific details.

Obviously Don has quite some experiences in scanning and I'm sure to be
able to learn, but I must be able to follow.

Exactly! Which is why it's generally advisable to cross that threshold
before (seemingly) making sweeping insinuations like the above.

I'll start a new thread
about this with concrete questions.

There are many people here who have been wrestling with Vuescan for a
long time and some may even tear themselves away from hurling insults
to answer a question or two.

Even though I don't use Vuescan myself I am familiar with it because I
did some extensive testing.

A couple of generic hints before you even start. Try to find a version
you're happy with and then don't upgrade just because a new version is
available. If you feel you must upgrade then make sure you save the
previous version which worked for you because there are no archives.

Also, often times when you find there's a problem it helps to delete
the *.INI file. That's the equivalent of re-installing i.e. getting
back to a known state. Of course, you will lose the settings but if
you save (i.e. rename) the old *.INI file you'll be able to restore
the settings one by one and thereby zero in on the problem.

Finally, depending on what your final goal is you may consider
scanning "raw". That means scanning at highest possible quality and
then reducing this to fit your current requirements e.g. a web JPG or
a print. The original raw scan, also known as you "digital negative",
will remain unchanged so when you get a new monitor or printer you can
go back and create a new picture without having to scan again. Also,
by scanning once you "freeze" any further deterioration of the film.

Don.

 

[Golden]

The problem is, half the time Don is pulling it out of his butt.

Come on man! That's exactly the attitude I'm talking about. It's enough
to mention his name and your head explodes! What's the point of that?
Eh? If you think so then ignore him! Just like he ignores the rest of
yous!

1. Bullshit posts from Don.

No, it's advice. You may not like it or agree with it but then respond
politely or ignore it. Don't just scream insults! What does that do
other than clog up the group? It sure ain't gonna make you look any
smarter!

2. Folks bitching about Don.

THAT'S what bugs me and the rest of us. And it goes on and on and on!
Without contributing anything. At least he tried to help. But what good
is it just screaming insults at him while he IGNORES you. Answer me
that!

Heck, you started a whole new friggin' thread with an insult in the
Subject! How is that helpful? The only "game" is yours. For the
umpteenth time man, he's IGNORING you! When you start a thread like
this YOU are the problem, not him.

3. Folks bitching about folks bitching about Don.

And who's to blame for that? Eh? Don writes ONE messages. And the
morons go on and on for days! Without contributing ANYTHING or
answering the question. And during all this time he just IGNORES you
lot!

I mean, stupid as flame wars are, but at least there are two sides
going at it. But to have one side ALONE rant and rave on and on is just
mega stupid.

Please stop it!

Golden

 

[Oliver Vecernik]

So, what bothered you about the post, specifically? (Quotes in
context, please.)

Hi Don,

The first posts I read were of this sort:

| But I was referring to structural problems. The program is pretty bad
| with really fundamental and elementary bugs. Many bugs also never seem
| to go away but keep reappearing, etc. It just gives an impression of a
| house of cards just waiting to fall over."

| If anything, VueScan (due to all the bugs)
| often corrupts this data and then tries to mask it by doing all the
| "editing". So, at first blush (a cursory glance) that may look
| "better" even though in reality (after closer examination) it's
| actually really much worse.

I don't remember everthing (and can't find it now), but these seemed
quite unspecific to me. I just bought VS a few hours before I read your
posts and this appeared quite surprising, because the scans seem to be
ok. Of course I did no extensive testing, it is just my impression.

Especially considering that - by your own admission - you just
recently joined to learn. The above would seem to suggest you already
made up your mind even though you're unfamiliar with the subject. So,
please correct this impression by supplied specific details.

Well, I did some scans in the past with NikonScan, but I connected my
scanner recently to a Linux box and that's why I needed a new software.
I found this newsgroup by chance a couple of weeks ago and find some of
the discussions here "quite interesting". ;-)

A couple of generic hints before you even start. Try to find a version
you're happy with and then don't upgrade just because a new version is
available. If you feel you must upgrade then make sure you save the
previous version which worked for you because there are no archives.

Good point, I already had such an experience...

Also, often times when you find there's a problem it helps to delete
the *.INI file. That's the equivalent of re-installing i.e. getting
back to a known state. Of course, you will lose the settings but if
you save (i.e. rename) the old *.INI file you'll be able to restore
the settings one by one and thereby zero in on the problem.

Agree, I had to start over with exact this procedure already...

Finally, depending on what your final goal is you may consider
scanning "raw". That means scanning at highest possible quality and
then reducing this to fit your current requirements e.g. a web JPG or
a print. The original raw scan, also known as you "digital negative",
will remain unchanged so when you get a new monitor or printer you can
go back and create a new picture without having to scan again. Also,
by scanning once you "freeze" any further deterioration of the film.

I started scanning my archive (most of them are negatives, some slides)
and don't use raws right now, but I also think it would be the better
choice. But let me start a new thread for this and discuss why I'm not
sure. Maybe we'll also find out why you don't like VS and how the
"traps" can be avoided. I appreciate your help anyway.