Mozilla email and zero byte files

[null]

Just a warning to those who use Moz or TB email. I caused quite a
problem when I allowed a utility to delete all zero byte files on my
hard drive (unconditionally). The email folder data wasn't lost but it
was quite difficult to get Moz to display the email folders and
archived mail again ... and get the program operation back to normal.

Not sure exactly what happens. But there is apparently needed
information in the name of (what appears to the file system as) Moz
"files" even when they're zero length.

The problem didn't include main email folders ... just sub folders.

I haven't reported this to the developers. Perhaps I should. I suspect
there are other users who sometimes delete all zero byte files
unconditionally as a part of h.d. housecleaning.


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[Christopher Jahn]

Just a warning to those who use Moz or TB email. I caused
quite a problem when I allowed a utility to delete all zero
byte files on my hard drive (unconditionally). The email
folder data wasn't lost but it was quite difficult to get
Moz to display the email folders and archived mail again
... and get the program operation back to normal.

Not sure exactly what happens. But there is apparently
needed information in the name of (what appears to the file
system as) Moz "files" even when they're zero length.

The problem didn't include main email folders ... just sub
folders.

I haven't reported this to the developers. Perhaps I
should. I suspect there are other users who sometimes
delete all zero byte files unconditionally as a part of
h.d. housecleaning.

You can only delete Mozilla files when Mozilla is completely
closed, including the quick-start feature.

The problem you encountered is caused by the fact that you
deleted files that Moz expects to find. Empty mail folders
must be removed in Mozilla before you delete them from the OS.

--
Christopher Jahn
:-(

http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html

It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

 

[null]

You can only delete Mozilla files when Mozilla is completely
closed, including the quick-start feature.

The problem you encountered is caused by the fact that you
deleted files that Moz expects to find. Empty mail folders
must be removed in Mozilla before you delete them from the OS.

The folders were not empty, as I explained.


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[Christopher Jahn]

OS.

The folders were not empty, as I explained.

Ah. I see what happend; you inadvertently deleted the
"*.sbd" files, which tell Mozilla that you have subfolders of
a mail folder. They are "null-length" files.

BTW, it's not a good idea to delete "null-length" files in the
manner described. It's not among the recommended practices
for HDD maintenance.



--
Christopher Jahn
:-(

http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html

I miss being obsessed. I like the weather there. (Jonathan
Carroll)

 

[null]

Ah. I see what happend; you inadvertently deleted the
"*.sbd" files, which tell Mozilla that you have subfolders of
a mail folder. They are "null-length" files.

BTW, it's not a good idea to delete "null-length" files in the
manner described. It's not among the recommended practices
for HDD maintenance.

By whom? I'd say it's a Moz design flaw. I've never run into a problem
until Moz email.


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[jo]

By whom? I'd say it's a Moz design flaw. I've never run into a problem
until Moz email.

By everyone. I've run cleaner apps before that have specifically
warned me against deleting zero byte files unless I know what I am
doing...

 

[null]

By everyone. I've run cleaner apps before that have specifically
warned me against deleting zero byte files unless I know what I am
doing...

How do you know what you're doing? Why would you allow superfulous
zero byte files to accumulate on your drive? Most always they are
superulous and they can be deleted.


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[jo]

How do you know what you're doing?

In the above example, I didn't and so left the files alone and didn't
get into any unexpected messes.

Why would you allow superfulous
zero byte files to accumulate on your drive?

Ignorance and paranoia. Same reason I am careful with cleaning .old or
..bak files, and why I rarely run apps that search for duplicted
..dll's. I run Toni's reg cleaner from time to time, but am only happy
running it when drunk.
It can take so long sometimes to recover from 'what does this button
do?' syndrome, and I have been there too many times.

Most always they are
superulous and they can be deleted.

And sometimes they're not and deleting them can make a mail client
fall over...

 

[null]

And sometimes they're not and deleting them can make a mail client
fall over...

So I found out the hard way. And I'm leaning toward the idea that such
software is carelessly designed since you never know in advance
whether or not it's safe to delete the zero byte files produced.


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[jo]

So I found out the hard way. And I'm leaning toward the idea that such
software is carelessly designed since you never know in advance
whether or not it's safe to delete the zero byte files produced.

Experience has taught me that I can circumvent the idiot proofing
built into any app...

 

[null]

Experience has taught me that I can circumvent the idiot proofing
built into any app...

Idiot proofing? What idiot proofing?


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[jo]

Idiot proofing? What idiot proofing?

The idiot proofing that might satisfty your definition of
non-carelessly designed software.

No software is proof against me...

 

[null]

Ah. I see what happend; you inadvertently deleted the
"*.sbd" files, which tell Mozilla that you have subfolders of
a mail folder. They are "null-length" files.

I just checked, and the .sbd are not files but are actually folders in
the PC file system. So none of the .sbd folders were deleted.

It must have been the zero byte .msf files that got deleted.

Anyway, it's definitely poor software design practice to create a app
dependent on zero byte files for proper functioning.


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[jo]

Anyway, it's definitely poor software design practice to create a app
dependent on zero byte files for proper functioning.

The software writers should add a byte so as not to generate false
positives in HD cleaning apps?

 

[null]

The software writers should add a byte so as not to generate false
positives in HD cleaning apps?

Not necessarily. They could change the scheme they use. They could
clean up their own zero byte files before exit. There's simply no need
to leave zero byte file remnants on the drive.


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[My Name]

(e-mail address removed) wrote in

Not necessarily. They could change the scheme they use.
They could clean up their own zero byte files before exit.
There's simply no need to leave zero byte file remnants on
the drive.

Unless you're looking for trace evidence.

 

[jo]

There's simply no need
to leave zero byte file remnants on the drive.

I do not know enough to be able to assert that a zero byte file is
necessarily a 'remnant'.

 

[null]

I do not know enough to be able to assert that a zero byte file is
necessarily a 'remnant'.

In most cases they are, and can be deleted.


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[jo]

In most cases they are, and can be deleted.

And neither of us know which case is which?

Did I ever tell you of the time I P/W protected/locked a large
directory tree which contained, er, my P/W locking app?

How I larfed

 

[BoB]

By whom? I'd say it's a Moz design flaw. I've never run into a problem
until Moz email.

Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

Glad you found the answer. We all learned something from your
misfortune. I'd agree it is not a 'good' design. Most everyone
would make the same interpretation you did. I doubt the HDValet
author ever imagined that deleting zero byte files might cause
a problem. Were it still freeware, I would let him know.

I've looked at a dozen cleaners but I can't bring myself to allow
any program to do file erasing for me. If a cleaner identifies a
reg entry for deletion, I note it and do the erasing myself after
checking it out, six ways from Sunday.

BoB