Microsoft's goals for 2006

[Frank ess]

Sean Monaghan took the hamburger, threw it on the grill, and I
said
"Oh wow"...
Top Ten Goals For Microsoft in 2006
[...]
2. ****ing kill Java.

They tried that. Sun sued the crap out of them and won.

For how much? A $100 million, right?

Chump change... The http://GatesFoundation.org
(if I remember this right) gave $100 million to the cure
of Elephantiasis in the same timeframe.

It wasn't about money, but rather about preventing Microsoft from
flooding the market with their proprietary version of Java. Sun
won, big time, although it's not clear what that win means for
their long-term survival. Java's on what, it's third GUI toolkit?
I was just thinking about learning Swing, and now it's out and
something else is in. That's a platform without a long-term
strategy. :-(

Paul Allen

shhhhh

 

[Father Kodak]

re

It wasn't about money, but rather about preventing Microsoft from
flooding the market with their proprietary version of Java. Sun
won, big time, although it's not clear what that win means for
their long-term survival. Java's on what, it's third GUI toolkit?
I was just thinking about learning Swing, and now it's out and
something else is in. That's a platform without a long-term
strategy. :-(

Paul Allen

Unfortunately, yes. The problem for Sun has always been that deep
down Scott McNealy is a hardware guy. That is what gets his interest,
not software.

On top of all that, it is hard for the Java programs at Sun to
justify their existence unless they can "monetize" Java.

And you also see some of the confusion in the strategy about such
issues as exactly who controls the future of Java.

Now, a whole 'nother story is the confusion regarding Solaris X86, but
we'll save that one for a different flame war.

 

[Real Friendly Neighborhood Vote Ranger]

ahhh

coming, going, or amazed?

 

[Real Friendly Neighborhood Vote Ranger]

shhhhh

zzzzzz, that was you, remember?

 

[A. Jinn]

Monaghan took the hamburger, threw it on the grill, and I said "Oh
wow"...
Top Ten Goals For Microsoft in 2006
[...]
2. ****ing kill Java.

They tried that. Sun sued the crap out of them and won.

For how much? A $100 million, right?

Chump change... The http://GatesFoundation.org
(if I remember this right) gave $100 million to the cure
of Elephantiasis in the same timeframe.

It wasn't about money, but rather about preventing Microsoft from
flooding the market with their proprietary version of Java.

I actually created the first version of my "Jinn" program using
MS Java ('99-'00). It was certainly the most capable java environment
going, at the time. I had used several others and seen Sun's stuff.

MS pulling out of Java was more damaging to Java than anything
MS could possibly have done.

Sun
won, big time, although it's not clear what that win means for
their long-term survival. Java's on what, it's third GUI toolkit?

Swing was always crap when I looked at it.
Java is relegated to compete with PHP, Python etc...
and I doubt all of them together has higher ground than ASP.

I was just thinking about learning Swing, and now it's out and
something else is in.

Is it any better?

That's a platform without a long-term
strategy. :-(

Paul Allen

Heh... GUI's are not as easy as people think.
MS gets /enough/ right that they will be hard to match, let alone
beat. Plus they have a wallet the size of Texas.

Architecturally, .NET is the holy grail, and fairly portable, I bet.

 

[Frank ess]

Noodles Jefferson wrote:

<[email protected]>, Sean
Monaghan took the hamburger, threw it on the grill, and I said
"Oh
wow"...

Top Ten Goals For Microsoft in 2006
[...]
2. ****ing kill Java.

They tried that. Sun sued the crap out of them and won.


For how much? A $100 million, right?

Chump change... The http://GatesFoundation.org
(if I remember this right) gave $100 million to the cure
of Elephantiasis in the same timeframe.

It wasn't about money, but rather about preventing Microsoft from
flooding the market with their proprietary version of Java.

I actually created the first version of my "Jinn" program using
MS Java ('99-'00). It was certainly the most capable java
environment
going, at the time. I had used several others and seen Sun's stuff.

MS pulling out of Java was more damaging to Java than anything
MS could possibly have done.

Sun
won, big time, although it's not clear what that win means for
their long-term survival. Java's on what, it's third GUI toolkit?

Swing was always crap when I looked at it.
Java is relegated to compete with PHP, Python etc...
and I doubt all of them together has higher ground than ASP.

I was just thinking about learning Swing, and now it's out and
something else is in.

Is it any better?

That's a platform without a long-term
strategy. :-(

Paul Allen

Heh... GUI's are not as easy as people think.
MS gets /enough/ right that they will be hard to match, let alone
beat. Plus they have a wallet the size of Texas.

Architecturally, .NET is the holy grail, and fairly portable, I bet.

shhhh

 

[John A. Bailo]

It wasn't about money, but rather about preventing Microsoft from
flooding the market with their proprietary version of Java. Sun
won, big time, although it's not clear what that win means for
their long-term survival. Java's on what, it's third GUI toolkit?
I was just thinking about learning Swing, and now it's out and
something else is in. That's a platform without a long-term
strategy. :-(

The Eclipse SWT is very serviceable and finding many converts.

It's all I would ever need -- and with the 1.0 release of the Eclipse
SWT its a no-brainer.

 

[John A. Bailo]

The Eclipse SWT is very serviceable and finding many converts.

It's all I would ever need -- and with the 1.0 release of the Eclipse
SWT its a no-brainer.

Opps...make that the 1.0 release of WST.

 

[Rhino]

Opps...make that the 1.0 release of WST.

I _think_ you mean: "Oops.... make that the 1.0 release of SWT". Or is WST
something else again?

Rhino

 

[John A. Bailo]

I _think_ you mean: "Oops.... make that the 1.0 release of SWT". Or is WST
something else again?

SWT is the Eclipse GUI toolkit.

WST is the web standard tools -- lets you do web pages, .jsp pages, java
faces and so on, in Eclipse.

It's always been there, but they just released the 1.0 version.

I was saying that by using the Eclipse platform you can get some
consistency with java that matches the .NET/Visual Studio system.

 

[Rhino]

SWT is the Eclipse GUI toolkit.

WST is the web standard tools -- lets you do web pages, .jsp pages, java
faces and so on, in Eclipse.

My mistake; I thought 'WST' was an inadvertent transposition of 'SWT'.

It's always been there, but they just released the 1.0 version.

I was saying that by using the Eclipse platform you can get some
consistency with java that matches the .NET/Visual Studio system.

Forgive my ignorance but how does SWT differ from Swing/JFC? Does SWT offer
desireable components not found in Swing/JFC? Doesn't Swing/JFC work in
..NET/Visual Studio?

Rhino

 

[Dennis M. Hammes]

After takin' a swig o' grog, Frank ess belched out this bit o' wisdom:




it.

(old kid's joke)

(young kids', too)

--
-------(m+
~/)_|
If a pome falls in the middle of a library and
the Bishop can't read it, does it still say, "Iamb"?
http://scrawlmark.org

 

[Dennis M. Hammes]

Leonardo da Jinn wrote:

Chump change... The http://GatesFoundation.org
(if I remember this right) gave $100 million to the cure
of Elephantiasis in the same timeframe.

And you still look like /that/?

--
-------(m+
~/)_|
If a pome falls in the middle of a library and
the Bishop can't read it, does it still say, "Iamb"?
http://scrawlmark.org

 

[IchBin]

My mistake; I thought 'WST' was an inadvertent transposition of 'SWT'.

Forgive my ignorance but how does SWT differ from Swing/JFC? Does SWT offer
desireable components not found in Swing/JFC? Doesn't Swing/JFC work in
.NET/Visual Studio?

Rhino

SWT stands for 'The Standard Widget Toolkit'. It is analogous to
AWT/Swing in Java with a difference - SWT uses a rich set of native widgets.





--


Thanks in Advance...
IchBin, Pocono Lake, Pa, USA
http://weconsultants.servebeer.com/JHackerAppManager
__________________________________________________________________________

'If there is one, Knowledge is the "Fountain of Youth"'
-William E. Taylor, Regular Guy (1952-)

 

[IchBin]

SWT stands for 'The Standard Widget Toolkit'. It is analogous to
AWT/Swing in Java with a difference - SWT uses a rich set of native
widgets.

Sorry forgot to include a link..

http://www.eclipse.org/articles/Article-SWT-Design-1/SWT-Design-1.html

--


Thanks in Advance...
IchBin, Pocono Lake, Pa, USA
http://weconsultants.servebeer.com/JHackerAppManager
__________________________________________________________________________

'If there is one, Knowledge is the "Fountain of Youth"'
-William E. Taylor, Regular Guy (1952-)

 

[Leonardo da Jinn]

Leonardo da Jinn wrote:



And you still look like /that/?

O **** you...

Can't you see the humor in it?
You don't think it was a statement about McNealy
being a fat head, do you?

Nah... Total coincidence.

But McNealy is a fat head, and Bill Gates is
the nicest robber barron the world has ever seen.

Praise Him in the highest...

If he's reading this: "Bill, I want to play crocket!"

....and if Melinda wants, I'll drop the porn and work
for her on composites of mountains and butterflies
and Mona Lisa.

--
AJ - http://Clitin.Com

*** A Wanking Service Agency ***
(currently free)

Usenet Porn-d'Art slideshows:
http://Clitin.Com/X3
http://Clitin.Com/Art-Cody
http://Clitin.Com/Art-PT
http://Clitin.Com/Art-VB
http://Clitin.Com/Chmi
http://Clitin.Com/Casey
http://Clitin.Com/AshleyLauren

Some personal movies:
http://Clitin.Com/GB.wmv
http://Clitin.Com/ZappyMorn.wmv

 

[Chris Smith]

Forgive my ignorance but how does SWT differ from Swing/JFC? Does SWT offer
desireable components not found in Swing/JFC?

The SWT differs from Swing in that is relies mainly on native widgets
(and therefore native code), but nevertheless keeps the JNI boundary low
so that most implementation can be done in Java with only a thin native
API wrapper. This is essentially a kind of compromise between the AWT
with its thick peers and lack of decent selectoin, and Swing with its
lightweight widgets.

The SWT is less fun to work with than Swing, and doesn't contain more
components than Swing. With JFace, at least a few of its components can
match the sensible behavior of Swing's model-based architecture. In
general, it's easier to screw up and you have to know more to do it
well. However, SWT is necessary for writing Eclipse plugins and RCP-
based applications, and that alone makes it worth learning. It's also
supposed to fix some performance issues of Swing.

Doesn't Swing/JFC work in .NET/Visual Studio?

Who cares? Does anyone actually use Visual Studio to write "Java"?

--
www.designacourse.com
The Easiest Way To Train Anyone... Anywhere.

Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
MindIQ Corporation

 

[Frank ess]

O **** you...

Can't you see the humor in it?
You don't think it was a statement about McNealy
being a fat head, do you?

Nah... Total coincidence.

But McNealy is a fat head, and Bill Gates is
the nicest robber barron the world has ever seen.

Praise Him in the highest...

If he's reading this: "Bill, I want to play crocket!"

...and if Melinda wants, I'll drop the porn and work
for her on composites of mountains and butterflies
and Mona Lisa.

shhhhh

 

[Eschewtheobvious]

shhhhh

 

[Rhino]

The SWT differs from Swing in that is relies mainly on native widgets
(and therefore native code), but nevertheless keeps the JNI boundary low
so that most implementation can be done in Java with only a thin native
API wrapper. This is essentially a kind of compromise between the AWT
with its thick peers and lack of decent selectoin, and Swing with its
lightweight widgets.

The SWT is less fun to work with than Swing, and doesn't contain more
components than Swing. With JFace, at least a few of its components can
match the sensible behavior of Swing's model-based architecture. In
general, it's easier to screw up and you have to know more to do it
well. However, SWT is necessary for writing Eclipse plugins and RCP-
based applications, and that alone makes it worth learning. It's also
supposed to fix some performance issues of Swing.

Okay, thanks for that information.

Who cares? Does anyone actually use Visual Studio to write "Java"?

I would hope not. I just asked because John said "that by using the Eclipse
platform you can get some consistency with java that matches the .NET/Visual
Studio system." I was wondering whether using SWT would make it easier to
write an application that would work in .NET/Visual Studio. I have no desire
to work with .NET and Microsoft's pseudo-Java but you never know when you'll
have to port something over to Microsoft so I thought I'd asked if using SWT
would make that task easier.

Rhino