Just had it confirmed once and for all, reformat doesn _not_ wipe drive completely!

F

fitwell

What will?

Over last 6 years since I bought this PC, I've suspected this since
after successive wipe/reinstalls, would have lingering ghosts of
behaviour not there before. But since it was not definite, have never
been sure. For example, the first inkling was after the very first
wipe all those years ago, an email program that would connect to the
internet, dl all mail and then close the internet connection never has
worked after that very first wipe.

Well, this time, I'm sure!

A few months back, though I doubt anyone would remember, I tried to
make Metapad stay on top. I used a program recommended here that
would toggle this on and off. Well, the program sucked,
unfortunately. I got Metapad to stay on top, but always! Very
annoying behaviour. But I thought, no sweat, after next reinstall,
that will go away. It did. For one week!

I can't ignore this any longer. This is now a great concern. Since
the reformat doesn't wipe things completely and I get this sort of
thing, is there a freeware that will?

Thanks. Appreciate any help.
 
D

Duddits

What will?

Over last 6 years since I bought this PC, I've suspected this since
after successive wipe/reinstalls, would have lingering ghosts of
behaviour not there before. But since it was not definite, have never
been sure. For example, the first inkling was after the very first
wipe all those years ago, an email program that would connect to the
internet, dl all mail and then close the internet connection never has
worked after that very first wipe.

Well, this time, I'm sure!

A few months back, though I doubt anyone would remember, I tried to
make Metapad stay on top. I used a program recommended here that
would toggle this on and off. Well, the program sucked,
unfortunately. I got Metapad to stay on top, but always! Very
annoying behaviour. But I thought, no sweat, after next reinstall,
that will go away. It did. For one week!

I can't ignore this any longer. This is now a great concern. Since
the reformat doesn't wipe things completely and I get this sort of
thing, is there a freeware that will?

Thanks. Appreciate any help.
Click to expand...

Eraser
http://www.heidi.ie/eraser/
Comes with Darik's Boot and Nuke

regards

Dud
 
E

Eric

fitwell said:
What will?

Over last 6 years since I bought this PC, I've suspected this since
after successive wipe/reinstalls, would have lingering ghosts of
behaviour not there before. But since it was not definite, have never
been sure. For example, the first inkling was after the very first
wipe all those years ago, an email program that would connect to the
internet, dl all mail and then close the internet connection never has
worked after that very first wipe.

Well, this time, I'm sure!

A few months back, though I doubt anyone would remember, I tried to
make Metapad stay on top. I used a program recommended here that
would toggle this on and off. Well, the program sucked,
unfortunately. I got Metapad to stay on top, but always! Very
annoying behaviour. But I thought, no sweat, after next reinstall,
that will go away. It did. For one week!

I can't ignore this any longer. This is now a great concern. Since
the reformat doesn't wipe things completely and I get this sort of
thing, is there a freeware that will?

Thanks. Appreciate any help.
Click to expand...
Try Eraser, it has a Nuke boot disk option, supposedly will destroy
entire contents of your harddrive using several passes with random ones
and zeros. Will probably take awhile, but if you want a clean HD, there
you go. Search for it at:

http://sourceforge.net/

HTH

Eric
 
F

Fred

fitwell said:
What will?

Over last 6 years since I bought this PC, I've suspected this since
after successive wipe/reinstalls, would have lingering ghosts of
behaviour not there before. But since it was not definite, have never
been sure. For example, the first inkling was after the very first
wipe all those years ago, an email program that would connect to the
internet, dl all mail and then close the internet connection never has
worked after that very first wipe.

Well, this time, I'm sure!

A few months back, though I doubt anyone would remember, I tried to
make Metapad stay on top. I used a program recommended here that
would toggle this on and off. Well, the program sucked,
unfortunately. I got Metapad to stay on top, but always! Very
annoying behaviour. But I thought, no sweat, after next reinstall,
that will go away. It did. For one week!

I can't ignore this any longer. This is now a great concern. Since
the reformat doesn't wipe things completely and I get this sort of
thing, is there a freeware that will?

Thanks. Appreciate any help.
Click to expand...

Hello,

What you really need is something like "EnCase" - that is a forensic
examination program and will show exactly what is on a wiped HD, when files
were changed, what is in unallocated clusters etc. It will give a complete
history, search for specific words/phrases and produce a report. It's also
able to completely wipe a hard drive so that nothing can be found
afterwards.
I used EnCase to check that various "disk wipe" programs actually worked -
and not many were up to the job. I was able to wipe a HD and then use
EnCase to recover most of the contents of it. The only reliable program
that did what it claimed was Evidence Eliminator.

A lot of people are getting a visit in the UK as the police work through a
list of Internet users that have been naughty. Either advertising files to
share over peer2peer networks or those subscribing to various sites. A lot
have tried wiping hard drives and are still caught as they think putting
something in the recycle bin removes it for ever!

This is why you should always fully wipe any hard drives if they are from a
computer shop or sale. You never know where they have come from or what
they have been used in.

The problem you mention seems unconnected with formatting a hard drive. You
say the drive has been formatted and later on a program is picking up a
deleted file? You can't have formatted it or reinstalled Windows and all
the associated programs. What you suggest is impossible if you think about
it. The index to the old files is removed, space on the HD is used again,
so even if it stayed on the HD nothing would know where to find it.
Over time all the data on the hard drive will become fragmented anyway, so
the chances of a deleted file suddenly appearing again after a format and
reinstallation is impossible. Good excuse if you ever got caught with
whatever it is you're afraid of people finding on your HD, but it would not
stand up in a court.
 
E

El Gee

What will?

Over last 6 years since I bought this PC, I've suspected this since
after successive wipe/reinstalls, would have lingering ghosts of
behaviour not there before. But since it was not definite, have never
been sure. For example, the first inkling was after the very first
wipe all those years ago, an email program that would connect to the
internet, dl all mail and then close the internet connection never has
worked after that very first wipe.

Well, this time, I'm sure!

A few months back, though I doubt anyone would remember, I tried to
make Metapad stay on top. I used a program recommended here that
would toggle this on and off. Well, the program sucked,
unfortunately. I got Metapad to stay on top, but always! Very
annoying behaviour. But I thought, no sweat, after next reinstall,
that will go away. It did. For one week!

I can't ignore this any longer. This is now a great concern. Since
the reformat doesn't wipe things completely and I get this sort of
thing, is there a freeware that will?

Thanks. Appreciate any help.
Click to expand...

1) Make sure all the data you want is backed up.
2) Remove all HD's except the one you want to erase.
3) Boot with Darik's Boot And Nuke (DBAN) found at
http://dban.sourceforge.net
It will take a long time. (I let it run overnight on a 20 gig HD)
4) You now have a HD that is about as blank as you can get it...


--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
El Gee <><
Know Christ, Know Peace
No Christ, No Peace

Remove yourhat to reply
Home Page - www.mistergeek.com
Blog - mcwtlg.blogspot.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
D

dadiOH

fitwell said:
What will?

Over last 6 years since I bought this PC, I've suspected this
Click to expand...

Where did you get the idea that formating (as used nowadays) "wipes a
drive completely"? All it does is replace a small amount of system
stuff like a FAT, all data remains; however, none of it is useable by
the OS since it is invisible to it.
__________________
since
after successive wipe/reinstalls, would have lingering ghosts of
behaviour not there before.
Click to expand...

Must be just *your* system
______________

A few months back, though I doubt anyone would remember, I tried to
make Metapad stay on top. I used a program recommended here that
would toggle this on and off. Well, the program sucked,
unfortunately. I got Metapad to stay on top, but always!
Click to expand...

Gee, you found its option to do so. Congrats!
______________
I can't ignore this any longer. This is now a great concern. Since
the reformat doesn't wipe things completely and I get this sort of
thing, is there a freeware that will?
Click to expand...

Most any magnet will wipe everything including all track/filler data. A
true ("low level") format required to use drive again.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
 
F

fitwell

Hello,

What you really need is something like "EnCase" - that is a forensic
examination program and will show exactly what is on a wiped HD, when files
were changed, what is in unallocated clusters etc. It will give a complete
history, search for specific words/phrases and produce a report. It's also
able to completely wipe a hard drive so that nothing can be found
afterwards.
I used EnCase to check that various "disk wipe" programs actually worked -
and not many were up to the job. I was able to wipe a HD and then use
EnCase to recover most of the contents of it. The only reliable program
that did what it claimed was Evidence Eliminator.

A lot of people are getting a visit in the UK as the police work through a
list of Internet users that have been naughty. Either advertising files to
share over peer2peer networks or those subscribing to various sites. A lot
have tried wiping hard drives and are still caught as they think putting
something in the recycle bin removes it for ever!

This is why you should always fully wipe any hard drives if they are from a
computer shop or sale. You never know where they have come from or what
they have been used in.

The problem you mention seems unconnected with formatting a hard drive. You
say the drive has been formatted and later on a program is picking up a
deleted file? You can't have formatted it or reinstalled Windows and all
the associated programs. What you suggest is impossible if you think about
it. The index to the old files is removed, space on the HD is used again,
so even if it stayed on the HD nothing would know where to find it.
Over time all the data on the hard drive will become fragmented anyway, so
the chances of a deleted file suddenly appearing again after a format and
reinstallation is impossible. Good excuse if you ever got caught with
whatever it is you're afraid of people finding on your HD, but it would not
stand up in a court.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought which is why I always wondered about ghost-like
behaviour. It's too coincidental now. Metapad _NEVER_ displayed this
behaviour _until_ I used a program (forget what it is now) that would
toggle ON TOP behaviour. All it did was make Metapad behave like this
_always_ from that day forward. Nothing I tried that was recommended
removed that behaviour. It's just too odd that a couple of days after
reformat reinstall that this behaviour started up again when 2 years
of using Metapad before all this _never_ showed this behaviour. And a
couple of other things after a wipe/reinstall have remained. I had
always believed that everything was wiped until a couple of years ago
when I heard that that's not true. Geez, even on the program NCIS a
couple of weeks ago they mentioned the types of programs that
completely wipe the drive (re the case of the seaman who was selling
drugs syphoned off from the navy! <lol>). So I'm going to try that
and see if I get different results.

As I said, I believe until I see otherwise and then it doesn't matter
what anyone says, the doubt remains as well as the evidence. Metapad
did _not_ display this stay on top behaviour permanently until I used
that program a few months back and it started up with this behaviour a
few days ago and is still at it. Very frustrating.

Thanks.
 
F

fitwell

Try Eraser, it has a Nuke boot disk option, supposedly will destroy
entire contents of your harddrive using several passes with random ones
and zeros. Will probably take awhile, but if you want a clean HD, there
you go. Search for it at:
Click to expand...

Sounds like a program they mentioned a couple of weeks ago on an NCIS
epsiode! <lol>

My hdd is partitioned. Is this safe to use on the C drive? In other
words, my D drive's contents will be okay (I imagine yes, but needed
to ask). I'll back up my D drive just in case, of course, but better
forewarned.
 
E

El Gee

Where did you get the idea that formating (as used nowadays) "wipes a
drive completely"? All it does is replace a small amount of system
stuff like a FAT, all data remains; however, none of it is useable by
the OS since it is invisible to it.
__________________
Click to expand...
Although I am not an *expert* I have fdisked, reformatted and STILL has
lingering effects of previous installs. I have been working on PC's
since the Window 3.0 days (although I did not get serious until Win95)
and have never been fully happy unless I did a low level or DBAN wipe.
Must be just *your* system
Click to expand...

Not just his system. I have installed Windows Dozens of times and seen
very strange lingering behaviour. No one has fully explained why...I
dubt that they can. Only in Windows...never in Linux. <snip>

JMHO :)

--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
El Gee <><
Know Christ, Know Peace
No Christ, No Peace

Remove yourhat to reply
Home Page - www.mistergeek.com
Blog - mcwtlg.blogspot.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
F

fitwell

Although I am not an *expert* I have fdisked, reformatted and STILL has
lingering effects of previous installs. I have been working on PC's
since the Window 3.0 days (although I did not get serious until Win95)
and have never been fully happy unless I did a low level or DBAN wipe.


Not just his system. I have installed Windows Dozens of times and seen
very strange lingering behaviour. No one has fully explained why...I
dubt that they can. Only in Windows...never in Linux. <snip>

JMHO :)
Click to expand...

I _knew_ it! Thanks for letting me know. And "lingering" behaviour
is exactly the term for it. And _why_ did one program only ever work
one time?? It only worked with the computer fresh from the factory.
Not once has it worked since! That was the email dl program that
would dial up every x number of hours or minutes, open up my mail
program, dl all the mail from my mailbox and then close the connection
and, I believe, even closed the email program. I've tried this app
repeatedly and, with nothing else changed, it never has been able to
connect successfully again to the internet on its own. I'm again on
dialup and sure miss that functionality!

I'm hoping that this new program will truly wipe the drive. That way,
I can feel like I have a clean system. Otherwise I'm in trouble. I
let the last system overhaul go way too long and only 2 weeks into
this new install, already it's crashing, behaviour that was common in
last few months.

Thanks.
 
T

Terry Russell

fitwell said:
That's what I thought which is why I always wondered about ghost-like
behaviour. It's too coincidental now. Metapad _NEVER_ displayed this
behaviour _until_ I used a program (forget what it is now) that would
toggle ON TOP behaviour. All it did was make Metapad behave like this
_always_ from that day forward. Nothing I tried that was recommended
removed that behaviour. It's just too odd that a couple of days after
reformat reinstall that this behaviour started up again when 2 years
of using Metapad before all this _never_ showed this behaviour. And a
couple of other things after a wipe/reinstall have remained. I had
always believed that everything was wiped until a couple of years ago
Click to expand...

Format does not wipe the drive clean however the previous
file structure is erased, there is no structure left.
The code still on the disk is only available for reading by something
that explicitly accesses at sector level.
Only virus-like apps could reload from a formated (not secure erased)
new operating system install, and then you would have more serious problems
and
an errant window..
There are paths that could lead to this result but they are unlikely.
Secure erase just takes an unlikely thing and makes it very unlikely,
it doesn't make it impossible.

It is far far (far) more likely something you loaded, not a carry over.
when I heard that that's not true. Geez, even on the program NCIS a
couple of weeks ago they mentioned the types of programs that
completely wipe the drive (re the case of the seaman who was selling
drugs syphoned off from the navy! <lol>). So I'm going to try that
and see if I get different results.
Click to expand...

I once heard that the useful information from one weeks
TV viewing could be relayed in 3 minutes.
I think I heard that on TV.
 
E

elaich

I can't ignore this any longer. This is now a great concern. Since
the reformat doesn't wipe things completely and I get this sort of
thing, is there a freeware that will?
Click to expand...

Here's a very simple little command line program that will do the job:

http://www.bonaventura.free-online.co.uk/realdelete/scour.zip

Put it on a floppy, boot with a boot disk and run scour.com

This has nothing to do with forensics or overwriting the disk, which others
have suggested. You don't need all that. All you need is a program that
will erase all the lost flotsam and jetsam from past installs.
 
C

Chrissy Cruiser

Here's a very simple little command line program that will do the job:

http://www.bonaventura.free-online.co.uk/realdelete/scour.zip

Put it on a floppy, boot with a boot disk and run scour.com

This has nothing to do with forensics or overwriting the disk, which others
have suggested. You don't need all that. All you need is a program that
will erase all the lost flotsam and jetsam from past installs.
Click to expand...

What is the ultimate test that nothing is left over? I use Eraser but who
*actually* knows if anything is left or not?
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Similar Threads

WIPING OUT HARD DRIVE NEEDS SOME SOFTWARE 8
Random System Lag with Vista Home x64 4
Reformat problem 4
(2nd try) Programs won't uninstall completely 2
Windows is acting very very buggy. 11
My pc goes into idle mode and hangs up stopping all downloads and 6
My Documents and all subfolders deleted somehow 4
Hotel Internet Access 10

Top