Is the Professional Look Really Better?

M

Matt Probert

That kind of brings up another subject. We have a lot of our email addresses
encoded in Javascript to try and stop the email spam harvest bots. It also
stops anyone with Java turned off. Anyone have any better ideas?

Don't worry about the spam. We get a few hundred a day, and just
delete them at the server. That said, we don't get very many real
emails, or perhaps we do and accidentally delete them <g>

Matt
 
N

Norman L. DeForest

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 07:30:05 -0500, Jim Cheshire (JIMCO)


Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one, only because
templates are a popular SERP and tons of people are looking for them. I
really don't think it's very difficult for a template site to generate
lots of visits.

The site I manage for my employer gets a similar number of weekly
"visitors" though. As silly as it is to ignore the issues of users in
favour of the advice of webmasters, does that mean you'll take my advice
now?

The most popular site on the Chebucto Community Net is for DOS users
and was designed right from the start to be lynx-friendly:
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~ak621/DOS/
The most recent visitation statistics as of this writing are:

http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/cgi-bin/urlstats?~ak621/DOS

: Number of visits to main page of /~ak621/DOS/
:
: * Yesterday: 51
: * This month: 578
: * Last month: 623
:
: Number of visits to URLs that match /~ak621/DOS
:
: * Yesterday: 26233
: * This month: 426613
: * Last month: 452291

Add in visits to that user's other pages,
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~ak621/
and you get:

http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/cgi-bin/urlstats?~ak621

: Number of visits to main page of /~ak621/
:
: * Yesterday: 5
: * This month: 69
: * Last month: 103
:
: Number of visits to URLs that match /~ak621
:
: * Yesterday: 27937
: * This month: 451637
: * Last month: 482307

That was almost half a million page hits last month.
 
E

Eric Jarvis

Windsun said:
No, the whole problem started because for some reason someone cross posted
to the alt groups. Then a couple of web snobs decided to come here and spend
more time nitpicking on individuals than in discussing the actual pros and
cons.

Just about all the useful discussion on the actual has come from regulars
in aww. The picking on individuals has only happened because there are a
few Fronr Page evangelisers who insist on posting erroneous or misleading
information, and who are incapable of responding to being corrected
without throwing a tantrum. Sometimes it's quite amusing to goad the more
pompous of these into admitting that they aren't actually the experts they
initially present themselves as.

Of course you in particular, "Windsun", have made no contribution
whatsoever other than to complain. We've got some dumb blowhards on aww,
but at least the group largely works on the basis that one of the
objectives of Usenet is to allow us to learn new things by being shown
better ways to work by people with more or different experience. The
impression you and others have given of microsoft.public.frontpage.client
is that it's full of people who use the newsgroup to boost their ego by
cheerleading each others errors and inaccuracies, or who can't bear not to
have the last word in any argument no matter how clearly wrong they are.
In that sense it's been very useful. It will forever remain on the Google
archive to show those looking for information on how to get the best out
of their software where not to go for advice.
 
E

Eric Jarvis

Greywyvern said:
Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one, only because
templates are a popular SERP and tons of people are looking for them. I
really don't think it's very difficult for a template site to generate
lots of visits.

The site I manage for my employer gets a similar number of weekly
"visitors" though. As silly as it is to ignore the issues of users in
favour of the advice of webmasters, does that mean you'll take my advice
now?

Amusing isn't it. A million uniques a year isn't all that impressive, even
I've worked on sites that have managed that, and I'm by no means in the
big league. Not to demean what it takes to get 10k visitors a week, that's
a reasonable start to build on, but it's hardly statistics that would
tempt most people into a willy waving contest.
 
E

Eric Jarvis

Chris said:
it seemed to increase the # of phone calls and sales disproportionately to
the increase in unique visitors. it's really anecdotal evidence but I
didn't change anything else.

My suspicion is that it's the sort of thing that is entirely dependent on
the nature of the business. So anecdotal experimental evidence is probably
ideal. If it's something where potential customers will see it as a
personal interaction then a photograph may well help engender a feeling of
trust and increase sales.

Horses for courses.
 
C

Chris Leeds, MVP-FrontPage

that was my assumption as well. I really encourage people to simply call me
on the phone. it's folksy and old-school, but that's kind of the way I am.

I would think that having a photo and folksy type stuff on another type of
site for someone with another working style would be counterproductive to
about the same degree as I've found it beneficial.

--
Chris Leeds,
Microsoft MVP-FrontPage

ContentSeed: great tool for web masters,
a fantastic convenience for site owners.
http://contentseed.com/
--
 
C

CarolW.

No, the whole problem started because for some reason someone cross posted
to the alt groups. Then a couple of web snobs decided to come here and spend
more time nitpicking on individuals than in discussing the actual pros and
cons.

If you say so.

I like how the "web snobs" didn't respond to threads/posts shared in
another group but "decided to come here".

Then again it is odd that you and others, trying to use the
cross-posted thoughts as some sort of reason - like the above shared
one you penned , find it difficult to stop cross-posting when
responding to even fellow "group mates" posts.

Kind of weakens of the argument when you are one of the parties to the
cross-posting 'problem', doesn't it?

Carol
 
S

SmakDaddy

Chris Leeds said:
that was my assumption as well. I really encourage people to simply call me
on the phone. it's folksy and old-school, but that's kind of the way I am.

I would think that having a photo and folksy type stuff on another type of
site for someone with another working style would be counterproductive to
about the same degree as I've found it beneficial.

--
Chris Leeds,
Microsoft MVP-FrontPage

ContentSeed: great tool for web masters,
a fantastic convenience for site owners.
http://contentseed.com/


http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://contentseed.com
 
J

Jim Cheshire \(JIMCO\)

Toby said:
Jim Cheshire (JIMCO) wrote:

Let's guess. You log IP addresses?

Wrong guess, but this is a great example of what I'm talking about! It
seems that many in your circles of compadres believe that the total depth of
the pool of wisdom consists of only what they know. In fact, there is much
more to logging activity on your Web site than just IP addresses.

Maybe you need to be a programmer to really understand how to look beyond
the basics.

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

Now offering templates ranging from
affordable standard templates to
powerful e-commerce applications!
 
J

Jim Cheshire \(JIMCO\)

Windsun said:
No, the whole problem started because for some reason someone cross
posted to the alt groups. Then a couple of web snobs decided to come
here and spend more time nitpicking on individuals than in discussing
the actual pros and cons.

Well said.

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

Now offering templates ranging from
affordable standard templates to
powerful e-commerce applications!
 
J

Jim Cheshire \(JIMCO\)

CarolW. said:
If you say so.

I like how the "web snobs" didn't respond to threads/posts shared in
another group but "decided to come here".

Then again it is odd that you and others, trying to use the
cross-posted thoughts as some sort of reason - like the above shared
one you penned , find it difficult to stop cross-posting when
responding to even fellow "group mates" posts.

Kind of weakens of the argument when you are one of the parties to the
cross-posting 'problem', doesn't it?

Are you sure you're not just trying to get the last word? ;)

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

Now offering templates ranging from
affordable standard templates to
powerful e-commerce applications!
 
S

SmakDaddy

Jim Cheshire (JIMCO) said:
When the fish aren't biting, the least you could do is change the bait!

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

Now offering templates ranging from
affordable standard templates to
powerful e-commerce applications!

I'm not baiting, nor scumming for trolls.

Without going into detail as I'm very busy, I was simply passing along info
so he/they/whoever could see what the basic problem there was and fix if
desired.

There's a bunch of errors at the site, yet the main one is there isn't even
an opening <html> tag. Unreal.

I'm a believer in that if you propose to be an educator, or a supplier to
those who need assistance/guidance, that you should at least have your basic
crap together, that you should have, at least, you're own crap together.

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.jimcoaddins.com
 
J

Jim Cheshire \(JIMCO\)

Greywyvern said:
Huh? $30.00 templates to "offset some of your costs" ? I find that
very hard to believe. But you resell them eh? I hope they work in
more browsers than your own website, or I'd very much feel cheated.

I resell them. I get 20% of that which means $6.00 if someone buys a $30.
Most templates are $15 at most, and 99% of people don't come to my site for
templates. You seem to be stuck on that page yourself, but it's a very
small part of my site.

Each message oozing from your account proves you more and more a
pompous fool who knows very little about the way the internet works.

Well, at the sake of making you look like an ignorant ass, in order to
download a product from me, you have to enter your name and e-mail address.
At that point, a cookie is sent in the response so that you don't have to
enter the information twice. I am counting a unique downloader as one
person downloading one or more add-ins once. I don't count anyone twice.

I keep intricate records on these e-mails when new product announcements go
out and I know exactly what percentage of them don't go to real individuals.

In other words, please refer to my earlier quote about keeping one's mouth
shut.

Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one, only because
templates are a popular SERP and tons of people are looking for them.
I really don't think it's very difficult for a template site to
generate lots of visits.

Once again, my template page is brand new and gets very few hits. That is
not what draws people to my site. Most come for tutorials, reviews, and
add-ins. Just this week, the templates page has been slammed, but that's
likely by you and others around these parts who are getting their jollies
hacking on the site. To each his own.

The site I manage for my employer gets a similar number of weekly
"visitors" though. As silly as it is to ignore the issues of users in
favour of the advice of webmasters, does that mean you'll take my
advice now?

Considering the fact that you've proven yourself to be pretty ignorant in
such areas, no.

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

Now offering templates ranging from
affordable standard templates to
powerful e-commerce applications!
 
J

Jim Cheshire \(JIMCO\)

SmakDaddy said:
I'm a believer in that if you propose to be an educator, or a
supplier to those who need assistance/guidance, that you should at
least have your basic crap together, that you should have, at least,
you're own crap together.

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.jimcoaddins.com

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.google.com
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.asp.net
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.yahoo.com
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.zdnet.com

Looks like you've got a lot of work to do! These are just the ones that I
thought of right off.

FYI, I think you'll find that almost no one cares about this kind of thing
anymore.

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

Now offering templates ranging from
affordable standard templates to
powerful e-commerce applications!
 
J

Jim Cheshire \(JIMCO\)

Windsun said:
Right - but they also won't see the email address.

Whew! We finally have a part of this thread that doesn't include all the
pompous blow hards in alt.*. :)

JIMCO will be releasing a new add-in soon that will mask e-mail addresses.
Keep an eye out!

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

Now offering templates ranging from
affordable standard templates to
powerful e-commerce applications!
 
K

Kathleen Anderson

I used this one: http://www.healyourchurchwebsite.com/obfuscator/ but was
told it didn't work for SBC/Yahoo users who read their email using SBC's
"browser."


--
~ Kathleen Anderson
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
Spider Web Woman Designs
web: http://www.spiderwebwoman.com/resources/
blog: http://msmvps.com/spiderwebwoman/category/321.aspx


Windsun said:
I use this one, which semi-encrypts it. Have not seen an email bot yet that
can figure it out, but it does stop anyone with Javas turned off from
seeing it. http://automaticlabs.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
G

Greywyvern

I resell them. I get 20% of that which means $6.00 if someone buys a
$30.
Most templates are $15 at most, and 99% of people don't come to my site
for
templates. You seem to be stuck on that page yourself, but it's a very
small part of my site.

I wonder how many other people never manage to make it to the rest of your
site because a) they aren't using IE, or b) they have disabled Javascript.
Well, at the sake of making you look like an ignorant ass, in order to
download a product from me, you have to enter your name and e-mail
address.
At that point, a cookie is sent in the response so that you don't have to
enter the information twice. I am counting a unique downloader as one
person downloading one or more add-ins once. I don't count anyone twice.

Allow me to correct your faulty line of implied reasoning. Above, you say
that you can tell each unique person who downloads from you; which you
follow up by explaining you obtain a name and email address from each
downloader. In the sections of OP you conveniently snip from your reply,
you go on to mention you get 10,000 unique visitors a week.

You're not seriously telling me you get 10,000 names and emails in your
inbox every week, are you? If you did, I'd say your were full of shite.
No, of course. I must've understood you wrong. So tell me, of those
10,000 unique visitors you get each week, what's your rate of turnover?
eg. how many unique downloaders do you get. You *said* you counted them.
Considering the fact that you've proven yourself to be pretty ignorant in
such areas, no.

I'm only a messenger. You called me a liar; I then proved that this
accusation was false; to which you replied that you didn't care one way or
the other to begin with.

You see, that's the fundamental difference between you and me. I *know*
I'm ignorant. I know a few things for certain, but I know there is far
more that I *don't* know than that I do. It is painfully obvious to me
that the collective knowledge of the human race dwarfs any level of
learning I can hope to attain.

You, on the other hand, are quite content to wallow in your ignorance,
certain you know everything you need to know, and suddenly I'm of a mind
to just let you continue.

Goodbye, Jim, and good luck with your site.

Grey
 

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