Is the Professional Look Really Better?

[Jim Cheshire \(JIMCO\)]

Opera supports inline frames just dandy. Since version 3.6x I think.
Certainly since 5.x.

Now this is why you have such trouble with this communication thing. I
didn't say that Opera doesn't support inline frames.

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

Now offering templates ranging from
affordable standard templates to
powerful e-commerce applications!

 

[=?Windows-1252?Q?Rob_Giordano_\=28Crash_Gordon=AE\]

WHAT??? You took down the one of you in your PJ's ?? Where's your pride mon?

 

[=?Windows-1252?Q?Rob_Giordano_\=28Crash_Gordon=AE\]

maybe he's confused because of all this damn bottom-posting crappola

 

[Trevor L.]

I have no idea what this site is about, but she sure can't spell.

My wife looked over my shoulder and said that is was offensive and "I
thought there was such a thing as spell checker"

I am not offended but the spelling - AAARGH

they're not this crude:
http://www.j-walk.com/other/myrtle/index.htm

--
Cheers,
Trevor L.


I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html

 

[Windsun]

It was a "professional" that totally screwed up our last website. That is
why we are doing it in house this time, with FP.

 

[Greywyvern]

It was a "professional" that totally screwed up our last website. That is
why we are doing it in house this time, with FP.

Unfortunately, for both your business and mine, there is a difference
bewteen someone you pay to build/design your website, and a web-design
professional.

Always get a second opinion when hiring freelance talent or be prepared
for the chance you've hired a charlatan.

Grey

 

[Norman L. DeForest]

See what I mean. The quote is actually derived from Proverbs chapter 17,
but it has been repeated by many. It appears in Mark Twain's writings (as I
said.)

This verse?[1] (KJV as downloaded from Project Gutenberg)

: 17:28 Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he
: that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

As to all of your other ramblings, I thought I had covered Opera with you
guys. I can only surmise by your reference to my quotation that you don't
read much, so I'm not surprised.

I've grown tired of this "I'm so much better than you" commentary with you,
so I'm off to do something productive.

By the way, a lot of your content is inaccessible for the
JavaScript-impaired. Could I respectfully suggest that you include a
<noscript>...</noscript> section with alternative hyperlinks to your
pages that have URLs generated with JavaScript to make your site contents
accessible to more visitors?

Everybody (OK, I exaggerate a bit) has commented about the errors they get
when they access the left-hand menu in your page at:
http://www.jimcoaddins.com/templates/fpstandard.htm
With my regular browser, I can't see any menus at all. This is
*all* that I get:

: FrontPage Standard Templates
:
: Professional quality templates for your FrontPage Web site.
:
: IFRAME: [1] MyFrame
:
: Templates are provided and sold by Ecommerce templates.
: Copyright 1998 - 2005, JIMCO
: All rights reserved.

References

1. http://www.ecommercetemplates.com/whitelabel/templates.asp?id=13&PARTNER=jimco

OK, I might get additional links to some images if I turned image-links on
but I see *no* menu at all.

I am a volunteer user-support person for the non-profit Chebucto Community
Net. Had I received a request for help in finding templates for a user's
web site, I would definitely have difficulty in finding them on your site
using my browser of choice (lynx running on my ISP's Unix system so I have
*no* chance of getting my computer hijacked when looking for stuff).

You might also find that this increases your ratings in some
search-engines because their spiders will better be able to access and
index your site contents.

[1] Although I am not a Christian, I find that Proverbs has a lot of
highly quotable passages. I like directing religious spammers to
Proverbs 26:6.

 

[Jim Cheshire \(JIMCO\)]

This verse?[1] (KJV as downloaded from Project Gutenberg)

17:28 Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he
that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

Yep, that's the one.

By the way, a lot of your content is inaccessible for the
JavaScript-impaired. Could I respectfully suggest that you include a
<noscript>...</noscript> section with alternative hyperlinks to your
pages that have URLs generated with JavaScript to make your site
contents accessible to more visitors?

Were I creating a Web site for someone else for a living, I'd be more
inclined to try and support people like yourself who are using Lynx running
on Unix. You mention that you have script turned off AND images turned off.
It's just not worth it to me to try and support such people. The primary
purpose of my site is to be a source of charitable giving. That is why all
of my software is free. I resell templates to try and offset some of my
costs. That's it.

As for search engines, they can index the site fine via the site map. My
search engine page rating for my home page has dropped significantly because
the page name changed due to an updated code release, but my unique visits
continue to increase. Interestingly, some in the alt.* group have nastily
sniped that I can't know who is a unique visitor. They are short-sighted
and assume that I have no programmatic design to determine such things. In
fact, I can tell each unique person who downloads from me, and that's what
I'm counting.

I guess I'd wrap it up to say (and I'm not directing this at you, Norman)
that I am not inclined to take the advice of someone who has 100 visitors a
year when I'm seeing over 10,000 a week and that number continues to climb.

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

Now offering templates ranging from
affordable standard templates to
powerful e-commerce applications!

 

[Toby Inkster]

The proof is in the pudding as they say.

No, they don't say that. They say: the proof of the pudding is in the
eating.

 

[Toby Inkster]

Interestingly, some in the alt.* group have nastily sniped that I can't
know who is a unique visitor. They are short-sighted and assume that I
have no programmatic design to determine such things.

There is no possible way for you to determine how many unique visitors you
have. That's a design "feature" of HTTP.

In fact, I can tell each unique person who downloads from me, and that's
what I'm counting.

Let's guess. You log IP addresses?

Situation: Dave is a dial-up user and decides to download X from your
site. He starts the download.

Dave's dog runs into the room and trips over the telephone cord, yanking
it out of the wall and damaging the connection at the end. Dave is upset
and yells at his dog and sends it outside.

He checks the file download. 96% done. Dammit. It's past 7pm now and Dave
knows that the computer shop will be closed, so he'll have to wait until
tomorrow to buy a replacement cord.

The next day, Dave goes out to the shop and buys a new cord. He plugs it
in, dials up to his ISP and goes back to your site. He downloads the file
completely.

What shows up in your logs?

Date|IP|Address
2005-02-25|188.65.12.86|/downloads/myfile.zip
2005-02-26|188.65.7.149|/downloads/myfile.zip

Two different IP addresses. Two different dates. How many unique
downloaders?

 

[Stephen Horrillo]

whether it looks more professional or not, it improved a key result.
That's
why, as uncomfortable as it is, I leave it up.

What "key result" did it improve? How can you possibly know for sure it was
your mug?

--
Warmest regards,

Stephen Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht.
For MLS & Computer Training: www.BrokerAgentTraining.com
Realtors Earn Over 100% at EXIT: www.over100percent.com

 

[Chris Leeds, MVP-FrontPage]

it seemed to increase the # of phone calls and sales disproportionately to
the increase in unique visitors. it's really anecdotal evidence but I
didn't change anything else.

--
Chris Leeds,
Microsoft MVP-FrontPage

ContentSeed: great tool for web masters,
a fantastic convenience for site owners.
http://contentseed.com/
--

 

[Chris Leeds, MVP-FrontPage]

It didn't "offend" me either, but it did make me feel guilty for gawking at
it.

--
Chris Leeds,
Microsoft MVP-FrontPage

ContentSeed: great tool for web masters,
a fantastic convenience for site owners.
http://contentseed.com/
--

 

[CarolW.]

that I am not inclined to take the advice of someone who has 100 visitors a
year when I'm seeing over 10,000 a week and that number continues to climb.

That's the reason why I didn't care to offer any tips or advice in
this thread when people, like Bob - Windsun - and yourself, were more
intersted in trying to act 'funny' or wishing to "get in the last
word" - you weren't interested in bettering the site 'cause you
couldn't see past your nose to begin with.

Carol

 

[Greywyvern]

Were I creating a Web site for someone else for a living, I'd be more
inclined to try and support people like yourself who are using Lynx
running
on Unix. You mention that you have script turned off AND images turned
off.
It's just not worth it to me to try and support such people.

How very noble of you.

The primary
purpose of my site is to be a source of charitable giving. That is why
all
of my software is free. I resell templates to try and offset some of my
costs. That's it.

Huh? $30.00 templates to "offset some of your costs" ? I find that very
hard to believe. But you resell them eh? I hope they work in more
browsers than your own website, or I'd very much feel cheated.

As for search engines, they can index the site fine via the site map.

Why not every page? I'm sure your rankings would go up. Right now Google
thinks only one page links to all the pages at your site.

My
search engine page rating for my home page has dropped significantly
because
the page name changed due to an updated code release,

Who's release? Yours? Or FPs? Assumimg you mean URIs here, URIs should
*never* change. Or if they must, at least set up redirects. Did you set
up any 301s for this little "code release"?

but my unique visits
continue to increase. Interestingly, some in the alt.* group have
nastily
sniped that I can't know who is a unique visitor. They are short-sighted
and assume that I have no programmatic design to determine such things.
In
fact, I can tell each unique person who downloads from me, and that's
what
I'm counting.

Each message oozing from your account proves you more and more a pompous
fool who knows very little about the way the internet works.

I guess I'd wrap it up to say (and I'm not directing this at you, Norman)
that I am not inclined to take the advice of someone who has 100
visitors a
year when I'm seeing over 10,000 a week and that number continues to
climb.

Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one, only because
templates are a popular SERP and tons of people are looking for them. I
really don't think it's very difficult for a template site to generate
lots of visits.

The site I manage for my employer gets a similar number of weekly
"visitors" though. As silly as it is to ignore the issues of users in
favour of the advice of webmasters, does that mean you'll take my advice
now?

Grey

 

[Tina - AffordableHOST, Inc,]

That's the reason why I didn't care to offer any tips or advice in
this thread when people, like Bob - Windsun - and yourself, were more
intersted in trying to act 'funny' or wishing to "get in the last
word" - you weren't interested in bettering the site 'cause you
couldn't see past your nose to begin with.

Carol

Well said.

--Tina

 

[Windsun]

That kind of brings up another subject. We have a lot of our email addresses
encoded in Javascript to try and stop the email spam harvest bots. It also
stops anyone with Java turned off. Anyone have any better ideas?

 

[Windsun]

No, the whole problem started because for some reason someone cross posted
to the alt groups. Then a couple of web snobs decided to come here and spend
more time nitpicking on individuals than in discussing the actual pros and
cons.

 

[Toby Inkster]

That kind of brings up another subject. We have a lot of our email
addresses encoded in Javascript to try and stop the email spam harvest
bots. It also stops anyone with Java turned off.

I don't see why it would. It may stop people with Javascript turned off
though.

Anyone have any better ideas?

http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/email-hide

 

[Tom Pepper Willett]

If they have java turned off, it will not affect JavaScript.

Tom
| That kind of brings up another subject. We have a lot of our email
addresses
| encoded in Javascript to try and stop the email spam harvest bots. It also
| stops anyone with Java turned off. Anyone have any better ideas?
|
| -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
| > By the way, a lot of your content is inaccessible for the
| > JavaScript-impaired. Could I respectfully suggest that you include a
| > <noscript>...</noscript> section with alternative hyperlinks to your
| > pages that have URLs generated with JavaScript to make your site
contents
| > accessible to more visitors?
|
|