Intel follows lead of AMD, introduces model numbers

[Sander Vesik]

The only available published SpecCFP2000 numbers I am aware of, 547
base, 552 peak, Hewlett-Packard Company, ProLiant BL10e G2 (1.0GHz,
ULV Intel Pentium M), do not support that assertion, even if you
assumed that results would scale linearly with frequency without
changing the Front Side Bus, which they would not. Compare that to
Intel Corporation Intel D875PBZ motherboard (3.4 GHz, Pentium 4
processor with HT Technology Extreme Edition): 1548 base, 1561 peak.

Uhh... Now look at power consumption of teh two chips you are comparing!

I suspect that media benchmarks would look even more unfavorable for
the Pentium-M. SpecInt2000 numbers for the systems already cited 673
base, 687 peak for the Pentium-M and 1342 base, 1393 peak for the P4
systems already cited, respectively, make it more of a horse race, but
let's not get carried away.

Again - this is in the context of spec / watt, not raw spec.

RM

Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

 

[spinlock]

That one is easier: All high-voltage cables in Norway have fiber twisted

LOL, why would you twist fiber?

 

[Seongbae Park]

By this logic, AMD should also have been marketing the Mobile
Athlon XP for 1U servers, something they haven't done so far
AFAIK, even though it would make for nice cool machines.

From http://www.sun.com/servers/entry/b100x/

The Sun Fire[tm] B100x Blade Server
...
five times the server density of typical one processor 1U servers.
...
1.53-GHz AMD Mobile Athlon XP 1800+ processor.

Seongbae

 

[Rob Stow]

LOL, why would you twist fiber?

Because the power cable is being used to support the weight
of the fiber cable. The fiber would perhaps be better
described as being a helix around the power cable.

You see it occasionally in other parts of the world too.

 

[Robert Myers]

Not that low actually: Hydro power requires water that on average is
liquid. :-(

No, not as low as Yellowknife or Longyearbyen, but in some cases
amazingly cold considering that liquid water is a requirement. A
while back, I did look at some actual sites on the Eastern side of
Hudson's bay. You'd never need a heat pump, even to do cooling to the
atmosphere.

That one is easier: All high-voltage cables in Norway have fiber twisted
around them for comms, originally just for power plant remote control,
but now also for regular TCPIP.

That answers a question I had but didn't ask, which is can you string
fiber from transmission towers. I was worried about mechanical damage
from being whipped around in the wind.

See above: Most power plants in Norway are unstaffed.

I think you'd have a waiting line for potential staff. You might have
to send up a team for periodic mental health checks.

RM

 

[Robert Myers]

Uhh... Now look at power consumption of teh two chips you are comparing!

Well, of course. At the risk of sounding like a one-track record, the
only reason we have monsters like P4, afaict, is the von Neumann
imperative. Otherwise, some version of the Blue Gene architecture or
multi-threaded ULV Pentium-M or similar would be a slam dunk.

Such a solution would be scalable, more energy efficient, possibly
quieter--all the things, in short, that have been discussed in this
thread and more--but you'd need to be able to make use of more than
one thread. If we ever got past the von Neumann paradigm, it would
not be very long before people would look back and wonder why it ever
took so long.

RM

 

[john jakson]

Robert Myers wrote:

[SNIP]

Intel got off to a really good start with Pentium-M. I don't think a
single-threaded, single core Pentium-M is going to fly as a P4
replacement. That being the case, I hope Intel will do something
really interesting, instead of just producing one more #$*!% me-too
chip.

I think that the VIA-ITX form factor & C3 chips show the way. My
mum's eyes lit up when she realised I could give her a fully
functional PC for word processing, web browsing and emailing that
was silent and fitted into a tiny little box.

There are a number of people out there who really don't want a
PC dominating a desktop. The monitor & keyboard they will accept
but that bloody great lump of noisey metal is a PITA for them. I
would argue that a P-M would be a better desktop CPU simply
because it has a chance of actually *fitting* on the average
desktop in the first place.

Cheers,
Rupert

I'd go along with that too, if I could replace the big boxes with a
tiny case and no noise. I wasted too much time replacing noisy fans
with newer quite v controled ones and trying to force a medium mobo
into a small briefcase. But most people aren't seeing the small form
factor too often. Laptops are just too proprietary for my partime BeOS
taste.

Look at Taiwan the supplier of most everything PC (I was there for
awhile recently), over there, big is better, except for the Shuttle
cubes even the C3s and miniITX are unavailable in TW. I think we are
going through the equiv of the chrome plated bumpers of 50yrs ago,
most of PC style is about junk and flashy lights.

I wouldn't mind seeing a low cost Beeb like PC again whatever cpu its
takes. Anyway it won't last forever, styles change, LCD panels are
leading that way. Most cpus will eventually probably fit as a backpack
to the LCD panel.

regards

johnjakson_usa_com

 

[john jakson]

Furthermore note that there is a push by
the FCC, and companies such as Intel (IIRC) to support IP over power lines
in a standard way. Lots of possibilities.

Now if the power companies (at least in the US) weren't so unimaginatively
managed. :-(

So, Terje, would Norsk Hydro consider going into the ISP or similar
businesses?

I thinks the powerline networking is past its sell by date. I wasted
6yrs on it at the wrong place even with Intel backing it. In the local
CompUSA, poweline networking kit based on OFDM was there for awhile,
but haven't seen it recently.

The utility transmission of data doesn't get me too excited either,
too many difficulties, fiber, and wireless won hands down. A
technology that should have worked but didn't due to unforseen
technical difficulties.

regards
johnjakson_usa_com

 

[Sander Vesik]

LOL, why would you twist fiber?

you missed the next part - 'around'. and you do it probably so that you
simply lay both atthe same time and don't do it separately for fiber
and cable.

 

[Triffid]

LOL. You really think a little pin tweaking will let you put
a 478 pin Pentium M into a Socket 370 ?

No, but designing a 478 pin slot adapter doesn't look particularly
challenging. Powerleap would likely have one available today if P-M was
priced closer to Tualatin.

 

[Terje Mathisen]

LOL, why would you twist fiber?

Think about it!

How would you otherwise attach the fibers to the 300 KVolt cables?
Plastic ties every meter?

Terje

 

[Terje Mathisen]

you missed the next part - 'around'. and you do it probably so that you
Right.

simply lay both atthe same time and don't do it separately for fiber
and cable.

The power cables have been there for quite a while, so most of them have
had the fibers added much later.

You'd probaly still want to pull the high-voltage cables first, since
that's going to put quite a lot of tension on the aluminum wire.

Afterwards you attach the little fiber-laying robot which travels along
the cable while rotating the unrolling fiber spool around it.

Terje

 

[RusH]

A C3 can't come close to a Pentium M in performance, so
why the heck did you think you needed to introduce VIA to
this thread ?

And I have actually used about 3 dozen C3's so far.
If you want a silent machine for something like driving a
projector in a board room they are a great processor.

Mostly because when you get a C3 you end up with a system
that is adequate for a secretary using MS Office or for watching
DVDs, but good for nothing else. A Pentium M gives you energy
efficiency *and* decent computing power - so I repeat: why the
heck did you think you think you needed to introduce VIA into
this thread ?

There are miniITX boards with fanless Athlon processors. Via came to my
mind first becouse its the idea of silent reasonable powerfull
(powerless? ) machine .. the idea that didnt took off as it was
expected.

Pozdrawiam.

 

[RusH]

LOL. You really think a little pin tweaking will let you put
a 478 pin Pentium M into a Socket 370 ?

.... :/ it was a sarcasm directed at Intels "little netburst mistake"
P-M is nothing more than beefed up Tualatin.


Pozdrawiam.

 

[spinlock]

Think about it!

Think about it!

Isnt it cheaper and easier just to dig a trench
along the route of the HV towers and lay the fiber
cable in it(like the rest of the world does)?

And what does the "little fiber-laying robot which travels along
the cable while rotating the unrolling fiber spool around it" do when
it comes to a point where the HV cable is attached to an insulator?

None of this even passes the laugh-test!

 

[Zak]

you missed the next part - 'around'. and you do it probably so that you
simply lay both atthe same time and don't do it separately for fiber
and cable.

There exist neat devices that get planted on a cable, and install fibre
over the existing cable.

They carry a spool of fibre that gets rolled on. I wonder what the
sleeve is like, and what they are powered off...


Thomas

 

[Nick Maclaren]

Think about it!

Isnt it cheaper and easier just to dig a trench
along the route of the HV towers and lay the fiber
cable in it(like the rest of the world does)?

In totally unpopulated areas, where there is a sufficient depth of
soil, yes. Otherwise, you may have problems. In the UK, there are
many areas where the earth is unstable because of the presence of
old, unmapped mining - usually a century or two old, but sometimes
a millennium old.

And what does the "little fiber-laying robot which travels along
the cable while rotating the unrolling fiber spool around it" do when
it comes to a point where the HV cable is attached to an insulator?

Climbs around it?

None of this even passes the laugh-test!

No, it's dead serious.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

 

[Terje Mathisen]

Think about it!

Isnt it cheaper and easier just to dig a trench
along the route of the HV towers and lay the fiber
cable in it(like the rest of the world does)?

Are you trolling?

Hereabouts all trenches needs to be about 2+ meters deep, just to avoid
frost/thaw problems every year. 97% of Norway is hills, lakes, mountains
& fjords, with no regular road access underneath the power lines.

And what does the "little fiber-laying robot which travels along
the cable while rotating the unrolling fiber spool around it" do when
it comes to a point where the HV cable is attached to an insulator?

None of this even passes the laugh-test!

I did try to locate one of the (norwegian) articles that's been written
about the system, just so that I could point you at some photos.

Terje

 

[George Macdonald]

There seemed to be a few different stories being melded together and I
clearly remember that the 5% number came from someone mixing one set
of numbers from one story with another bit from a different story.

Possibly more than one 5% source as well. At any rate my "reference" is
gone... one might think due to protest from "someone". It's always hard
to separate fact from rumor.

Certainly. I'm not saying that this isn't a problem, just that it's a
different problem than yields and therefore has a different solution.
Of course, IBM also seems to have some yield problems as well to go
along with this design issue.

Obviously IBM has more familiarity with its own process and I'd suspect
that their designers are well versed in how to design for it.

90nm is proving to be a tough nut to crack, IBM's having some
problems, Intel's 6+ months late and still having lots of trouble, AMD
has delayed their parts for a good 4-6 months and it still remains to
be seen how well they'll deliver. Definitely more problems going
around this time than with the 130nm process.

Hmmm, until AMD went to IBM though, they were in serious trouble with 130nm
as well - lost them ~9months. Someone else has also suggested that the IBM
problem may be that they are preoccupied with getting product out for AMD.
It could also be that the "failure" was with Chartered who is a cohort of
some kind of IBM; possibly some of the lower clocked foundry chips were
targeted for sub-contracted production at Chartered.

It is important to remember that TSMC and UMC are after a slightly
different goal with their production. For them it's largely a minimum
cost function, while top-end performance is not as important. I would
guess that a company like Intel could get about as much performance
out of a design at 130nm as TSMC/UMC could get at 90nm. However the
latter would achieve that performance at a much lower price point.

TSMC and UMC are still coming out ahead here because they can offer
similar performance for lower price, but I don't see them taking over
all the world's production just yet. A lot of companies still seem
very interested in using IBM as a foundry for high-end parts.

Yes and don't forget the problems they (TSMC definitely and UMC?) had with
130nm, which was one of the reasons that nVidia, Qualcomm et.al. went
looking for alternatives... and found IBM. Whatever their position in the
market, whether lower down the performance scale, they have both definitely
enhanced their reputation in the business. We'll see if VIA sticks with
IBM now... and how long IBM takes to do the expansion they've already
applied for planning permission for at East Fishkill.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

[Jason Ozolins]

spinlock wrote: ....


Are you trolling?

Hereabouts all trenches needs to be about 2+ meters deep, just to avoid
frost/thaw problems every year. 97% of Norway is hills, lakes, mountains
& fjords, with no regular road access underneath the power lines.



I did try to locate one of the (norwegian) articles that's been written
about the system, just so that I could point you at some photos.

Google search for the keywords
focas fibre wrapped

gets a few links from Ireland's Electricity Supply Board on their user
of fibre and one (titled "electricity96") which goes into a bit of
detail on fibre wrapped around high voltage power lines. No cool
pictures though, darnit.