I want my RAM back

C

Chuck Anderson

I've a couple RAM recovery programs over the years, but I've gotten lost
while looking for a current *free* one again.

I have 256MBs of RAM, which is enough to keep my machine running quick,
that is until I have Moz Firefox and Thunderbird open and then want to
process some large digital images in Photoshop. Once I do that Windows
starts using the pagefile (swaps Firefox and Thunderbird out to disk)
and even after I close Photoshop, it won't stop using the pagefile. So
once I've opened and then closed Photoshop, my machine runs like a slug
whenever I want to switch apps (it keeps paging everything out to disk).

Is there a good, free RAM free up tool? (I tried one I had I my zip
files archive, but it actually caused Explorer to crash.) I don't think
I need anything fancy. I would just like to run it on demand.

And I am assuming that this is what I need to get Windows to stop using
the pagefile once it no longer needs to. What I have been doing is
rebooting (Ughh). I'm also looking to buy another 512MBs of RAM, but
from past experience my guess is that Windows will mismanage all of
that, too - - - and I'd like to try a cheaper, easier solution in the
meantime.

Any help?

Thanks in advance ...

--
*****************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO
http://www.CycleTourist.com
Integrity is obvious.
The lack of it is common.
*****************************
 
W

Wesley Vogel

256MB is hardly enough RAM to run XP doing what you want to do. Invest in
some more RAM.

XP manages memory quite well without the aid of 3rd party programs.


--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In
 
C

Chuck Anderson

Wesley said:
256MB is hardly enough RAM to run XP doing what you want to do. Invest in
some more RAM.

XP manages memory quite well without the aid of 3rd party programs.
Click to expand...
Then why does it keep using the pagefile even after I have closed
Photoshop and stopped using all my RAM for that.

It's very obvious. I have my browser (Firefox) and my email client
(Thunderbird) open and I can switch between apps in the blink of an
eye. Then I open Photoshop, do some work, and Firefox and Thunderbird
get swapped out to the pagefile. It takes forever to get their focus
back. After I close Photoshop, Windows keeps swapping Thunderbird of
Firefox out to disk when I switch between them and the only solution is
to reboot. Can't I somehow tell Windows that it need not keep using the
pagefile?

I have a RAM monitor and I can see that Windows keeps making my browser
use the pagefile. Why can't it revert back to using RAM the way it did
*before* I opened and used Photoshop (and closed it)?

--
*****************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO
http://www.CycleTourist.com
Integrity is obvious.
The lack of it is common.
*****************************
 
H

HillBillyBuddhist

| Wesley Vogel wrote:
|
| >256MB is hardly enough RAM to run XP doing what you want to do. Invest
in
| >some more RAM.
| >
| >XP manages memory quite well without the aid of 3rd party programs.
| >
| >
| >
| >
| Then why does it keep using the pagefile even after I have closed
| Photoshop and stopped using all my RAM for that.
|
| It's very obvious. I have my browser (Firefox) and my email client
| (Thunderbird) open and I can switch between apps in the blink of an
| eye. Then I open Photoshop, do some work, and Firefox and Thunderbird
| get swapped out to the pagefile. It takes forever to get their focus
| back. After I close Photoshop, Windows keeps swapping Thunderbird of
| Firefox out to disk when I switch between them and the only solution is
| to reboot. Can't I somehow tell Windows that it need not keep using the
| pagefile?
|
| I have a RAM monitor and I can see that Windows keeps making my browser
| use the pagefile. Why can't it revert back to using RAM the way it did
| *before* I opened and used Photoshop (and closed it)?
|
| --
| *****************************
| Chuck Anderson . Boulder, CO
| http://www.CycleTourist.com
| Integrity is obvious.
| The lack of it is common.
| *****************************

An excellent read on virtual memory in XP.

http://aumha.org/win5/a/xpvm.htm

Directly addressing your question see the section titled "Why is there so
little free RAM?"

--
D

I'm not an MVP a VIP nor do I have ESP.
I was just trying to help.
Please use your own best judgment before implementing any suggestions or
advice herein.
No warranty is expressed or implied.
Your mileage may vary.
See store for details. :)

Remove shoes to E-mail.
 
M

Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)

Have you considered that the programs might not be written quite as well as
they could be?..
 
R

Richard Urban

You are way underpowered for rendering "large" digital images with
Photoshop. I wasn't even good with 512 meg of RAM. It wasn't until I
installed a full gig that things went smooth.

Get more RAM.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :)

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
L

Leythos

I've a couple RAM recovery programs over the years, but I've gotten lost
while looking for a current *free* one again.

I have 256MBs of RAM, which is enough to keep my machine running quick,
that is until I have Moz Firefox and Thunderbird open and then want to
Click to expand...

You should have said, until I open any number of apps and use up the small
amount of free RAM.
process some large digital images in Photoshop. Once I do that Windows
Click to expand...

If you are editing images in PhotoShop then you should have between 512MB
for every low quality (res) images and 2GB for higher quality images.
starts using the pagefile (swaps Firefox and Thunderbird out to disk)
and even after I close Photoshop, it won't stop using the pagefile. So
once I've opened and then closed Photoshop, my machine runs like a slug
whenever I want to switch apps (it keeps paging everything out to disk).
Click to expand...

This is normal and how almost every OS works - they swap out when you run
out of available free memory in order to keep your program running.
Is there a good, free RAM free up tool? (I tried one I had I my zip
files archive, but it actually caused Explorer to crash.) I don't think
I need anything fancy. I would just like to run it on demand.

And I am assuming that this is what I need to get Windows to stop using
the pagefile once it no longer needs to. What I have been doing is
rebooting (Ughh). I'm also looking to buy another 512MBs of RAM, but
from past experience my guess is that Windows will mismanage all of
that, too - - - and I'd like to try a cheaper, easier solution in the
meantime.
Click to expand...

There is no cheap solution and this is not just a Windows problem. Windows
is properly managing the limited amount of memory you have. 256MB is about
the min for a cheap home computer without getting into high-end graphics
or large MS Word documents.

If you want to run PhotoShop you're better off getting 1GB+ memory, it
will make a BIG difference on larger images.
 
C

Chuck Anderson

Mike said:
Have you considered that the programs might not be written quite as well as
they could be?..
Click to expand...
Actually both Firefox and Thunderbird need a special option setting to
prevent them from giving up too much memory when minimized or left idle
for long periods. However, I have applied both of those settings and
they work (until usage of Photoshop forces them into the pagefile). I
just don't get why Windows can't reallocate RAM after I close PS (I am
also now going to read the info at the URL's I was told to visit in
other posts).

...... I'm also hearing the advice to simply buy more RAM. I suppose I'll
just have to bite the bullet and do so. I'm going to get another 512MBs
(I have DDR SDRAM - 2100 - 266MHz) . I think 768MBs total should do me
well (besides, it's about all I can afford).

--
*****************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO
http://www.CycleTourist.com
Integrity is obvious.
The lack of it is common.
*****************************
 
C

Chuck Anderson

Leythos said:
You should have said, until I open any number of apps and use up the small
amount of free RAM.




If you are editing images in PhotoShop then you should have between 512MB
for every low quality (res) images and 2GB for higher quality images.




This is normal and how almost every OS works - they swap out when you run
out of available free memory in order to keep your program running.




There is no cheap solution and this is not just a Windows problem. Windows
is properly managing the limited amount of memory you have. 256MB is about
the min for a cheap home computer without getting into high-end graphics
or large MS Word documents.

If you want to run PhotoShop you're better off getting 1GB+ memory, it
will make a BIG difference on larger images.
Click to expand...
I appreciate all the advice, .... but,.....

I'm talking about after I have closed Photoshop, so PS is no longer
requiring lots of RAM. Now, when I switch back and forth between my
browser and email client, the other one is always paged out. They did
not need to be paged out before I ran Photoshop. Why can't Windows
reallocate RAM (pagefile usage?) after I close Photoshop to the way it
was using it before I opened and closed Photoshop?

Not to say I couldn't use more RAM (which I'll simply have to get pretty
soon), but once Photoshop has acquired all the available RAM for itself,
it really works quite well with the 256MBs I have (on images that are
~2000 - 3,000 pixels wide). I have no real delays in Photoshop (once it
grabs up all the RAM it needs). The frustration is that after closing
Photoshop, I have to reboot to get Windows to allocate RAM and pagefile
usage efficiently again. It seems like I should be able to tell it do
so without rebooting.

--
*****************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO
http://www.CycleTourist.com
Integrity is obvious.
The lack of it is common.
*****************************
 
R

Richard Urban

Isn't more like "why isn't PhotoShop releasing it"?

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :)

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
G

Gerry Cornell

Chuck

What version of Photoshop?


--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FCA

Using invalid email address

Stourport, Worcs, England
Enquire, plan and execute.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please tell the newsgroup how any
suggested solution worked for you.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
V

V Green

See response below-

Chuck Anderson said:
I appreciate all the advice, .... but,.....

I'm talking about after I have closed Photoshop, so PS is no longer
requiring lots of RAM. Now, when I switch back and forth between my
browser and email client, the other one is always paged out. They did
not need to be paged out before I ran Photoshop. Why can't Windows
reallocate RAM (pagefile usage?) after I close Photoshop to the way it
was using it before I opened and closed Photoshop?
Click to expand...

I don't use Photoshop any more but on the older
version I did use, it had its OWN virtual memory scheme, seperate from
Windows'. I found things to run better if you turn PS's VM completely
OFF. It was in Preferences somewhere.
 
M

Michael Stevens

In
Chuck Anderson said:
Actually both Firefox and Thunderbird need a special option setting to
prevent them from giving up too much memory when minimized or left
idle for long periods. However, I have applied both of those settings
and they work (until usage of Photoshop forces them into the
pagefile). I just don't get why Windows can't reallocate RAM after I
close PS (I am also now going to read the info at the URL's I was
told to visit in other posts).

..... I'm also hearing the advice to simply buy more RAM. I suppose
I'll just have to bite the bullet and do so. I'm going to get another
512MBs (I have DDR SDRAM - 2100 - 266MHz) . I think 768MBs total
should do me well (besides, it's about all I can afford).
Click to expand...

What happens when you remove the tweaks?
Bottom line, you need more RAM.
--
Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm
 
L

Leythos

I'm talking about after I have closed Photoshop, so PS is no longer
requiring lots of RAM. Now, when I switch back and forth between my
browser and email client, the other one is always paged out. They did
not need to be paged out before I ran Photoshop. Why can't Windows
reallocate RAM (pagefile usage?) after I close Photoshop to the way it
was using it before I opened and closed Photoshop?
Click to expand...

What version of PS are you running. I've never had a problem with it
releasing RAM, and I use FireFox all the time. Take a look at the Task
Manager, Memory per process and make notes before and after... Maybe you
have something remaining in memory after closing it.
Not to say I couldn't use more RAM (which I'll simply have to get pretty
soon), but once Photoshop has acquired all the available RAM for itself,
it really works quite well with the 256MBs I have (on images that are
~2000 - 3,000 pixels wide). I have no real delays in Photoshop (once it
grabs up all the RAM it needs). The frustration is that after closing
Photoshop, I have to reboot to get Windows to allocate RAM and pagefile
usage efficiently again. It seems like I should be able to tell it do
so without rebooting.
Click to expand...

I've been using PS on a PC since the about 95, it's always wanted LOTS of
RAM.

Have you applied all updates from Adobe? How about all MS Updates?
 
K

Ken Blake

In
Chuck Anderson said:
I've a couple RAM recovery programs over the years, but I've
gotten
lost while looking for a current *free* one again.

I have 256MBs of RAM, which is enough to keep my machine
running
quick, that is until I have Moz Firefox and Thunderbird open
and then
want to process some large digital images in Photoshop.
Click to expand...


Although 256MB may be enough for the average user, for someone
using Photoshop (especially someone editing *large* digital
images) it's nowhere near enough for decent performance.

You should consider increasing your RAM to 1GB, or even more.

"RAM free up tools" are all counterproductive. None of them help
you at all, and are far more likely to *hurt* performance.
 
D

DJ Borell

You may benefit from researching the way these so-called "RAM defrag" tools
work.

The bottom line is that none really give you any benefit at all. Your
computer utilizes RAM to store a process that the CPU has "on-hold" and
references that programs need quick access to (faster access than if the
reference were on the HD). Each process held in RAM, to put it in basic
terms, is assigned a time-frame. Once it exceeds this time, it is removed
from RAM. Generally, a process is kept in RAM as long as it is accessed
frequently enough by a running program. Once it is no longer needed, it is
removed.

RAM defragers work by assessing the usage states of all processes held in
RAM. If the defrag program determines that a process is in a "low" usage
state, it removes it by filling up the memory with it's own processes,
thereby "freeing" RAM.

At best, these programs do nothing more than your OS will do for you
already. At worst, they can have serious performance impacts if they pull
needed processes out of RAM or fill up all your RAM with their own
processes.

If you're experiencing a shortage of RAM that you find serious enough to
attempt to implement a software solution, my suggestion would be to invest
in more RAM. In reality, though 256 MB meets the minimum required amount of
memory for Windows, it really isn't enough to effectively operate with.

As far as the pagefile is concerned, getting "rid" of it may seem appealing,
but don't. Unlike Linux, Windows needs a swap file to operate efficiently
and will perform very poorly without it.
 
S

SFB - KB3MM

He could load taskinfo 2003 and look at RAM/pagefile usage for everything in
the machine.
 

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