HOMEBUILT vs NAME BRAND

K

Koko

BrightStar said:
Considering I want to get a relatively inexpensive machine, what would
be the most compelling arguments for building a computer vs getting a
name brand PC?

For the same price, is the home built one generally any faster? I
know it is more versatile for parts replacement and I am not stuck
with software I do not need. I am strictly looking at speed for the
buck.

Thanks,
Brightstar65

You end up building it yourself because there's usually a compromise with
the store bought unit. Meaning , it's got this, this and that but, I wish it
had
this instead of that. You probably won't save any money but will get
exactly what you want by putting it together yourself. You get to choose
where the compromise is made if you have to cut corners anywhere.

Mr Koko
 
J

JAD

I would have agreed with that whole heartily a year or so ago. After
all that's all we had that gave us the 'one up'. But the BIG
commercial guys have caught on to that and will build what you want
for a cheaper price. I mean you say " I want video editing" and you
get a generic capture card and some off the wall software and you
capture to digital. (one year later) OH! you wanted to output that
well........what's that? can you upgrade? well it would be better to
build you a new one

blah blah blah in for the oil change out with a ...whatever they
may convince you of
 
T

ToolPackinMama

JAD said:
If you bought the same crappy components (if a retailer would even
consider selling the junk) you can build the same POS that dell will
hand you. Its when you do your research in the QUALITY of parts, is
when you begin to understand the difference between bought and built.

I agree.
 
T

ToolPackinMama

jaster said:
I build my own but never all at once so my costs might be lower, I just
upgrade what I have.

I do the same. One nice thing about homebuilt is you can pay for one or
more components at a time, instead of having to commit to paying for
everything all at once. You can buy your mobo/cpu/ram/case to start with
(under 300.00 USD), and just use any crap drives that you had in your
old system, to start with. As soon as you can afford it, you
buy/install better/faster drives, better video card, and etc.

Plus, when you build your own, you can upgrade/fix your own at will.
You don't have to stand, hat in hand, and beg some "approved" tech to
see to it. It's so nice to not have to send your box away for a week or
two when it needs something. "Tech support" is over-rated. All it
really is, is a contract to let their approved techs work on your box,
when you could do it yourself, instead.

To me it's no bargain to pay 2000.00 USD for a system that I can't
upgrade or repair myself. For a thousand dollars less, I get a machine
that I am free to monkey with at will.

BTW, the privacy/security issue is huge for me. I don't want some
teen-techie playing with the sensitive, personal data that is on my HD.
I would rather deal with my PC hardware issues myself, than entrust my
precious, and very personal computer to some stranger.
 
T

ToolPackinMama

Ron said:
In fact very frequently such components are not quite the same and require
different drivers and BIOSs. Therefore the support tends to be slower and
less robust than for the true retail fully compatible generic part. The
same goes for OEM/whitebox version of a part sold retail as they are the
same as retail except packaging.

Good point.
 
T

ToolPackinMama

Key-Bored said:
True, but anyone who posts on this ng obviously has at least some interest
in building their own PC.

Good point, and BTW, we are dedicated to encouraging them.
 
T

ToolPackinMama

Hackworth said:
Very generally speaking, yes, because *you* decide what combinaton of parts
is important to you, and you can focus your spending toward those those
parts. Also, your money doesn't go to pay for a software bundle that you
probably don't need.

That's another thing. These PC manufacturers rave about their stinky
software bundles like it's the fricking holy grail, when in fact most o
f the software they give you "for free" isn't worth spit. We are
talking programs you will never use, or that you shouldn't use (NORTON
ANTIVIRUS, IMHO).

(Speaking of Norton Antivirus, is there another application in the
universe that is both so self-important AND so bloated, top-heavy, and
resourse-hungry?

In my experience, Norton Antivirus slows the whole PC down, in a manner
that is unique. Plus, Norton Antivirus seems overpriced, considering
it's not even the best AV out there.)
 
T

ToolPackinMama

BrightStar said:
WOW! you argue your case well. Thanks everyone for your comments.

since I posted, I have convinced my brother to go with a good quality
motherboard since it really is the single biggest factor in speed,
dependability and upgrade options and longevity.

True.
 
P

P T

Computers are nowhere near a mature technology, like a tv or a car.
Building my system 20 months ago I learned a ton of stuff useful to
making those mysterious boxes do my bidding. If you know that stuff
already, or you're not a tinkerer, then pre-built is fine.

Starting from scratch, my system cost more than buying something
pre-built. Having some parts now, I could do it a lot cheaper. In fact,
I'm excited as hell because my buddy's wife has given the go-ahead for
us to build them something to replace their wretched 10-15 years old
pcs. I'm betting that for <250 we can build a kick-ass surfing / home
office machine. I can't explain the fun of researching and picking
components, and more so if it actually WORKS when your done :-D
 
T

ToolPackinMama

ToolPackinMama said:
In my experience, Norton Antivirus slows the whole PC down, in a manner
that is unique. Plus, Norton Antivirus seems overpriced, considering
it's not even the best AV out there.

Allow me to emphasize: I recently bought a new laptop that came loaded
with (among other things) Norton Antivirus. I uninstalled NAV and
replaced it with AVG, and it speeded my whole laptop system up,
palpably.

Now, my laptop boots faster, and generally runs faster. Thanks, AVG!

http://www.grisoft.com/us/us_index.php
 
T

ToolPackinMama

P said:
Starting from scratch, my system cost more than buying something
pre-built. Having some parts now, I could do it a lot cheaper. In fact,
I'm excited as hell because my buddy's wife has given the go-ahead for
us to build them something to replace their wretched 10-15 years old
pcs. I'm betting that for <250 we can build a kick-ass surfing / home
office machine. I can't explain the fun of researching and picking
components, and more so if it actually WORKS when your done :-D

GO FOR IT! :D
 
J

jaster

You inaccurately snipped thus forging the thread. I posted NONE of what
you included.

Yes I missed snipping your name but as you see above Ruel Smith is also
quoted.
Ron Reaugh wrote:
[snip]

Usually, the more extravagant you build your machine, the better off
you are building. My XP machine was built just over 2 years ago and I
spent $2200 to build it. I got the best of everything, including
SoundBlaster Audigy Pro, GeForce 4600Ti, 400 watt Logitech speaker
system, Pentium 4 2.0 Northwood, ATA133 80GB RAID system, 24X
CR-R/RW, 16X DVD, Zip250, and an Orb 2.2GB. At that time, I couldn't
even dream of getting a Dell with those specs, but manufacturers like
Falcon Northwest and Alienware were charging $3800+ for a similar
setup.

You mean the more extravagant your ultimate components the better your
are building.
I build my own but never all at once so my costs might be lower, I just
upgrade what I have. I don't buy top of line components either except
once or twice. For instance you spent $2200 for a system now worth
$300-$400 mostly due to the sound card and video. So from my
perspective I look at pre-built systems that will be good
price/performance during the warranty period and can be upgraded after
the warranty expires with better components.

That's where your plan falls apart as such systems our often not as
upgradable as ones based on retail mobos with recent BIOSs available
covering products available over the whole market.

I would only buy a system that can be upgraded. There is a point
when the cost of a upgrading or the reason for upgrading doesn't make
sense to me. For someone with PC133, XP1700, 40Gb HD, GF3 the question is
how much bang for buck can he achieve with an upgrade vs. the cost of a
newer, faster, larger, upgradeable and warrantied PC with software for a
few dollars more. A 3.0ghz or a AMD 64 3000 costs $250, plus m/b, plus
256 PC2700 or better and what leave the GF3, 40gb hd?

Long time since I last bought a pre-built, I've only upgraded components
within my systems. Now with obsolete components collecting dust and 2
solid PCs I think I can get a good deal with a pre-built gamer PC if it
meets my standards.
 
R

ropeyarn

ToolPackinMama said:
I do the same. One nice thing about homebuilt is you can pay for one or
more components at a time, instead of having to commit to paying for
everything all at once. You can buy your mobo/cpu/ram/case to start with
(under 300.00 USD), and just use any crap drives that you had in your
old system, to start with. As soon as you can afford it, you
buy/install better/faster drives, better video card, and etc.

Plus, when you build your own, you can upgrade/fix your own at will.
You don't have to stand, hat in hand, and beg some "approved" tech to
see to it. It's so nice to not have to send your box away for a week or
two when it needs something. "Tech support" is over-rated. All it
really is, is a contract to let their approved techs work on your box,
when you could do it yourself, instead.

To me it's no bargain to pay 2000.00 USD for a system that I can't
upgrade or repair myself. For a thousand dollars less, I get a machine
that I am free to monkey with at will.

BTW, the privacy/security issue is huge for me. I don't want some
teen-techie playing with the sensitive, personal data that is on my HD.
I would rather deal with my PC hardware issues myself, than entrust my
precious, and very personal computer to some stranger.




I'm late to the discussion, and probably won't tell anybody here
anything they don't already know, but:

My progession through PCs has been from mass market retail (HP, when
they were still HP) to local custom builder (used two different
ones...both took the time to ask smart questions about my user needs and
price points) to building my own.

The homebuilt decision was a natural progression..once you've added some
RAM, replaced a NIC or other internal components, it's not a big leap to
building your own. There are plenty of potential pitfalls, but with
enought research, reading and talking with your tech savvy network, it's
quite do-oable.

I would argue that unless you are designing for a rock bottom price
point (which you can do...but which I wouldn't because of some
requirements I wouldn't care to compromise on) then homebuilts generally
are not a huge moneysaveer.

That said, dollar for dollar, it's almost a sure thing that you will get
more performance and (assuming a good build!) greater reliabilty and
embedded upgradability than a store-bought machine of the same price.

Here's why I'll continue to build my own, and why I recommend this path
to others:

-No proprietary or uneeded crap. Whether its hardware (as in the case of
Dell's non-standard power supplies) or software we are talking about,
you get things that you know can be serviced --or that you actually
need. I am astounded at the amount of useless apps delivered on retail
machines that seem mostly designed to sell other stuff via arrangements
with their "trusted partners". This absence of crap on the machine makes
maintentance and repair easier in the long run.

-Custimization: You end up with what you need, not what the retailer is
trying to push out the door. The margins for PCs and PC hardware are
incredibly thin...you never know where the weak spots are in the systems
they put together for you.

-Asthetics. I know what I want my cases to look like, because I know
where they will live! I also know that it's the skin on my hands at risk
when I start poking around in there, so I can make sure I get one that
will accomodate them!

--Overall value. The usual suspects can probably sell me cheaper than I
can build. We may end up with common components that they can certainly
buy cheaper than I can. But they are getting there by unloading a lot of
low end parts on unsuspecting --or uninformed-- consumers, and playing
games with rebates or (less common these days) tying your discount to
service with an ISP. Buying a PC is hard enough decision...you shouldn't
be forced into another relationship at the same time.

--Self education. I still like to look in Best Buy, Circuit City,
CompUSA....and will go there for the occaisional time sensitive
component purchase. My experience in homebuilding lets me walk in there
completely unintimidated. I enjoy listening to the "advice" given to
customers by the sales staff, and sometimes will clarify the
"information" they have provided once they've moved on to another mark.
Our home machines are free of bloatware, proprietary compents, service
plans. Regular data backups and modests knowledge of the relationships
between the parts make our computing worry free....what a terrific
return on investment!

If a user is not comfortable oustide of the "support" network of a mass
market retailer, then homebuilding isn't a good choice. As PCs become
commodity items, I've been underwhelmed by the abilities of these
retailers to both give good (or even honest!) advice at purchase time
and keep their stuff running. I'd simply rather do it myself!
 
R

Ruel Smith

Ron said:
For the mass consumer not interested in building Dell is a good option.

Unless you want to try Linux on it someday. Dell once released machines
with a mutated SoundBlaster Live! Value card and no one with one of
those can get it working in Linux. They also tend to cheapen some things
here and there like the PSU and other components that are Dell brand
named. You also cannot overclock a Dell, so if you're interested in
squeezing out as much as you can from your system, your SOL.
 
A

Anon

Considering I want to get a relatively inexpensive machine, what would
be the most compelling arguments for building a computer vs getting a
name brand PC?

For the same price, is the home built one generally any faster? I
know it is more versatile for parts replacement and I am not stuck
with software I do not need. I am strictly looking at speed for the
buck.

Thanks,
Brightstar65

you can get a faster computer for your buck if you build it yourself,
of course. And there's no need to sacrfiice on quality.

most 'name brands' just put together seagate HDDs, MSI mobos anyway.
So the whole 'name brand' thing is a bit of a farce.
Get good makes(or 'name brands' as you might call them) of components,
it doesn't require much research to find a good make.
 
T

ToolPackinMama

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

<snip eloquent post> Great post, wow! That just about says it all, and
says it well, too. :)
 
M

Mac Cool

ToolPackinMama:
No, it's not. Price (savings) is what attracted me in the first
place.

Price is the reason I learned to build my own systems, but it isn't a
good reason anymore. Time and again, I have priced a home built system
against Dell and Dell wins on price everytime. Some people like to
claim that Dell uses substandard components but that just isn't true.
They are not top of the line, but they are average.
You can build very nice bargain PCs for less than what an
off-the-rack BIG NAME MANUFACTURER would charge, and you get better
quality components for the the same or less money than what they
offer.

I have challenged a number of people to back up the same statement, two
tried, two failed. Would you like to try?

No cheap components, no refurbs, no academic software, everything must
be mid-line quality or better, must be a complete system including
things like fans, heat sinks, operating system, monitor and software.
Must be a true apples to apples comparison which means you must use the
same processor, same operating system, etc. as the reference system.
You need to provide links to the components you choose, shipping (but
not taxes) must be included in the final price. Finished system must be
cheaper and better quality than the reference system. (Better is defined
as top of the line components and/or faster CPU, more memory, bigger
hard drive, etc.)

Here's your reference system:
It is a Dell 4600 $979 shipped (tax not included)

Dell Dimension 4600 Series
Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor with HT Technology (2.80GHz, 800 FSB)
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
512MB Dual Channel DDR SDRAM at 400MHz
Dell Quietkey® Keyboard
17 in (16 in viewable,.27dp) E773c CRT Monitor E773
Video Card 128MB DDR ATI RADEON 9800 PRO w/ TV-Out and DVI
Hard Drive 40GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
No Floppy Drive
Mouse Dell 2-button scroll mouse
Integrated Intel® PRO 10/100 Ethernet
Modem 56K PCI Data Fax Modem
Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 6.0
16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+RW/+R) w/double layer write capability
Sound Sound Blaster Audigy™2 w/Dolby 5.1, and IEEE 1394
No Speaker Option
WordPerfect®
6 Months America Online Internet Access Included
Microsoft® Money 2004 Standard
1 Year Limited Warranty plus 1 Year At-Home Service

Fairly modest system and Dell isn't offering too many incentives right
now so you have a good shot at this one.
 

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