Epson admits that using their tanks will void your warranty!

[Jon O'Brien]

Jon O'Brienwrote:

You've proved that your C62s clogged, which is not the same thing.

For the Nth time: many people have used Epson inkjet printers for
years without having more than the occasional blockage which is easily
cleared by running a head cleaning cycle. I'm one of them.

Davy replies:
Proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt, you like to quote but without
any explanation so what is not the same thing....?

Sorry, I though it was self-evident. There's plenty of doubt.

You said:

So I say Epsons will clog wheter you use third party inks or genuine
inks - I've prove it

That implies that you've proved that all Epson printers clog, whatever ink
is being used. You haven't. All you've 'proved' (we'll gloss over the fact
that no one here has seen any actual proof, we've only read your version
of events, which doesn't even _prove_ that you've ever owned a printer) is
that you had clogging problems with several C62s. You can't use your
limited experience of Epson printers to extrapolate to all models and all
users. It could be that: a) there's something about the way you used the
printers that caused the clogging. b) there's something in the environment
where your printers were kept that caused the clogging (dust, low
humidity, etc). c) some C62s clog and all the ones you had were in this
group. d) there was a problem with the C62 design which made it
susceptible to clogging (which I think someone here suggested may be the
case).

Is a head clog not an head clog then, yes I agree there's alot of
Epson's about and don't have the trouble that I HAVE EXPERIENCED, but
there are complaints about Epsons clogging and not just C62's you only
need to look around

I'm aware of the reports but, as you have pointed out, there are plenty of
people that don't experience the problem, which makes your statement
'Epsons will clog' a sweeping generalisation which can be proved false. To
use your own words: 'I've prove it'.

The problems arose using GENUINE EPSON INK's so am I right again in
saying that original inks are as liable to clog than any other ink?

It supports the experience of others that Epsons can clog, no matter what
ink formulation is used. It doesn't prove, one way or the other, that they
are '...as liable to clog...'. However, it ignores the fact that some
people /never/ have serious clogging problems, regardless of which inks
they use.

What you're saying is equivalent to arguing that the common factor amongst
people who are killed crossing the road is that they were crossing the
road at the time, therefore crossing the road kills you. It can, but it
doesn't always and more people die whilst not crossing a road than die
crossing one. What's more likely is that some were being careless, some
were drunk, some were hit by a careless driver, some weren't actually
crossing the road but fell or were pushed into it, etc.

Clogging may be due to:

- A badly designed printer/print head.
- How often the printer is used.
- The kind of ink being used.
- How the printer is used (E.g. paper that produces lots of dust).
- Where the printer is used (E.g. low-humidity environment, direct
sunlight).
- Some other cause, of which I'm unaware.

Until you've carried out tests which rule out every possibility, you
haven't _proved_ anything.

Jon.

 

[measekite]

Sorry, I though it was self-evident. There's plenty of doubt.

You said:




That implies that you've proved that all Epson printers clog, whatever ink
is being used. You haven't. All you've 'proved' (we'll gloss over the fact
that no one here has seen any actual proof, we've only read your version
of events, which doesn't even _prove_ that you've ever owned a printer) is
that you had clogging problems with several C62s. You can't use your
limited experience of Epson printers to extrapolate to all models and all
users. It could be that: a) there's something about the way you used the
printers that caused the clogging. b) there's something in the environment
where your printers were kept that caused the clogging (dust, low
humidity, etc). c) some C62s clog and all the ones you had were in this
group. d) there was a problem with the C62 design which made it
susceptible to clogging (which I think someone here suggested may be the
case).




I'm aware of the reports but, as you have pointed out, there are plenty of
people that don't experience the problem, which makes your statement
'Epsons will clog' a sweeping generalisation which can be proved false. To
use your own words: 'I've prove it'.




It supports the experience of others that Epsons can clog, no matter what
ink formulation is used. It doesn't prove, one way or the other, that they
are '...as liable to clog...'. However, it ignores the fact that some
people /never/ have serious clogging problems, regardless of which inks
they use.

All of everything said in this post is true. However, very generally it
is known that Epson printers as a class have a greater tendency to clog
than Canon and that Canon, while much smaller, will have a greater
propensity to clog over an HP with cart and head together. While it is
generally true it is equally true that many people have had the right
mix of usage that they did not experience any clogs or just an
occassional one. It is also true, as admitted by the Epson Factory Rep I
spoke with that Epson goes through numerous unasked for cleaning cycles
and uses more ink.

 

[Jon O'Brien]

...very generally it is known that Epson printers as a class have a
greater tendency to clog than Canon...

That may be true but without verified figures showing how many experience
clogging as a percentage of units sold it's only speculation. I believe
Epson sells more inkjet printers than Canon in most world markets.

Whatever the truth may be, suggesting that all Epson printers clog is
misleading. More helpful would be to say that clogging in Epson printers
seems, generally, to be unrelated to ink formulation and to pass on to
trying to discover what factors are truly significant. Perspective buyers
can then decide whether or not to buy an Epson based on their projected
usage, environment, etc.

Jon.

 

[measekite]

That may be true but without verified figures showing how many experience
clogging as a percentage of units sold it's only speculation. I believe
Epson sells more inkjet printers than Canon in most world markets.

Whatever the truth may be, suggesting that all Epson printers clog is
misleading. More helpful would be to say that clogging in Epson printers
seems, generally, to be unrelated to ink formulation

Yes but more people who are not using Epson inks appear to be doing more
complaining about clogs.

 

[J L Williams]

That may be true but without verified figures showing how many experience
clogging as a percentage of units sold it's only speculation. I believe
Epson sells more inkjet printers than Canon in most world markets.

Hi just found this group and topic.
Can one 'unclog' an Epson printer? Has anyone tried? Had any success?
I've tried the nozzle clean etc many times but without success.
Appreciate your thoughts.
Cheers
Jim
PS A Stylus color 440 and a Stylus Color lls

 

[Hecate]

Hi just found this group and topic.
Can one 'unclog' an Epson printer? Has anyone tried? Had any success?
I've tried the nozzle clean etc many times but without success.
Appreciate your thoughts.
Cheers
Jim
PS A Stylus color 440 and a Stylus Color lls

Find a post by Arthur Entlich. Write to him and he'll send you a
manual by email for free on how to unclog.

--

Hecate - The Real One
(e-mail address removed)
Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
you don't have, to impress people you don't like...

 

[Burt]

Bottom line - Many people love their Epson printers and the photos they
produce. If they have eventually clogged with OEM or non-OEM inks the good
news is that nearly all head clogs can be completely cleared.
Unfortunately, the user manual only suggests the cleaning cycles from their
software. Luckily we have Arthur Entlich's cleaning manual as a resource
for going beyond clicking the head cleaning button, and almost all Epson
(and many other printers) can be restored to excellent function with very
little effort or time expended. Instead of bemoaning the potential for
clogs we should focus on these simple maintenance steps to keep our printers
functioning. BTW, my Epson Stylus 900 clogged occasionally and I only use
OEM inks in this printer. Easily fixed. My Canon i960 with non-oem
(carefully selected) inks has not clogged yet with almost a year of use.
When it does, I have learned from people who post to this and other forums
how to solve the problem.

 

[measekite]

Bottom line - Many people love their Epson printers and the photos they
produce. If they have eventually clogged with OEM or non-OEM inks the good
news is that nearly all head clogs can be completely cleared.
Unfortunately, the user manual only suggests the cleaning cycles from their
software. Luckily we have Arthur Entlich's cleaning manual as a resource
for going beyond clicking the head cleaning button, and almost all Epson
(and many other printers) can be restored to excellent function with very
little effort or time expended. Instead of bemoaning the potential for
clogs we should focus on these simple maintenance steps to keep our printers
functioning. BTW, my Epson Stylus 900 clogged occasionally and I only use
OEM inks in this printer. Easily fixed. My Canon i960 with non-oem
(carefully selected) inks has not clogged yet with almost a year of use.
When it does, I have learned from people who post to this and other forums
how to solve the problem.

When you buy a car you really do not want a maintenance headache. You
want to drive. Well the same should be true about printing. You want
to do photography and enjoy the result; not nursemaid a printer.

 

[Burt]

When you buy a car you really do not want a maintenance headache. You
want to drive. Well the same should be true about printing. You want to
do photography and enjoy the result; not nursemaid a printer.

(snip)

Hate to clue you in on a fact of life, but EVERYTHING requires some
maintenance and occasional repairs. Even you and me! Even the most revered
cars with the best Consumers Union stamp of approval are rated as arriving
with "x" number of defects, and every car I've ever owned, from Porsche to
VW bug to Honda to Toyota, came with a printed maintenance schedule and a
dealer with a busy repair department. Years back when Jags were plagued
with electrical problems I had friends who continued to buy and happily
drive them. A few of them were medical professionals who were also skilled
auto mechanics, and they knew exactly what they were buying and why. Some
additional maintenance was worth the great driving experience to them. To
say nothing of friends who, in spite of the terrible reputation for
requiring repairs, loved the way their Ferraris drove and handled. What you
describe as a headache is, for some, just a tradeoff for something they
enjoy using. It is the glass half empty vs. the glass half full
phylosophy --- you call it a headache and someone else just shrugs it off as
simple maintenance to use something they enjoy.

More specifically, my Epson printer only clogged mildly after more than
three years of use, and an hour's worth of maintenance at home fixed it.
Not exactly playing nursmaid and certainly not a maintenance headache.

 

[J L Williams]

The message <[email protected]>

Find a post by Arthur Entlich. Write to him and he'll send you a
manual by email for free on how to unclog.

Thanks very kindly. I'll do just that
Jim

 

[Ivor Floppy]

When you buy a car you really do not want a maintenance headache. You
want to drive.

So you *never* check the oil, water, tyre pressure, brake fluid levels etc?
I'd hate to be with you when you breakdown.....

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Davy,

You are certainly entitled to your anger and frustration with Epson
products based upon your experience with them. It seems the Epson UK
division you dealt with was less that fair or efficient.

However, I will point out (once again, for the sake of fairness) that
there is hardly ANY company that, when replacing the product under
warranty, starts the warranty fresh again.

A few companies occasionally do this as a good will gesture, but it's
very rare. Items that come with lifetime warranties do it, because the
warranty is supposedly for the lifetime of the owner or potential useful
life of the product.

Almost every guarantee or warranty I have read states that should the
product be replaced or repaired under warranty that the product will
have the remainder of the warranty from the original purchase date or
something like 90 days, which ever is longer.

Did you bother to read the warranty that came with your printer? What
did it say?

Art

 

[measekite]

(snip)

Hate to clue you in on a fact of life, but EVERYTHING requires some
maintenance and occasional repairs. Even you and me! Even the most revered
cars with the best Consumers Union stamp of approval are rated as arriving
with "x" number of defects, and every car I've ever owned, from Porsche to
VW bug to Honda to Toyota, came with a printed maintenance schedule and a
dealer with a busy repair department. Years back when Jags were plagued
with electrical problems I had friends who continued to buy and happily
drive them. A few of them were medical professionals who were also skilled
auto mechanics, and they knew exactly what they were buying and why.

I guess that your friends made poor choices.

Some
additional maintenance was worth the great driving experience to them. To
say nothing of friends who, in spite of the terrible reputation for
requiring repairs, loved the way their Ferraris drove and handled. What you
describe as a headache is, for some, just a tradeoff for something they
enjoy using.

A headache is a headache. I guess some people enjoy headaches.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Here's a posting from that guy, referred to ;-)

If you use my email address as shown in the header above and ask for the
Epson Cleaning Manual, I will gladly send you a copy at no charge.
Please mention which model printer is involved a bit of a description as
to what you are seeing.

Art

 

[measekite]

So you *never* check the oil, water, tyre pressure, brake fluid levels etc?
I'd hate to be with you when you breakdown.....

I have someone else do that for me.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Why do you find it so difficult to accept that people can have
reasonable and even intelligent reasons for buying a certain branded
product that differs from your point of view? I have assisted people in
purchasing just about every brand of inkjet printer depending on their
applications.

If, as you claim, Epson printers caused so many headaches, no one would
buy them, and yet, their sales continue to be strong, and many people
are on waiting lists for the newest models each time they get released.

Obviously, there are those who find Epson printers worth the
"maintenance headache", which apparently must be saying a great deal
about their products.

Art

 

[Burt]

I guess that your friends made poor choices.

If you had ever driven an XK120, XK150, or an XKE you wouldn't think theirs
was a poor choice. Although cars are now more refined and much safer, in
their day these were fantastic cars. I preferred Porsches, and when I owned
them they were not as "premium priced" as they are today. Of course, you
might have preferred a VW bug, Datsun (now Nissan) or Toyopet (now Toyota)
as they were much cheaper and more economical to run, but as you know, there
are other things to consider and that is why you drive an Acura instead of
today's equivalent of the Yugo (your favorite to compare to other products
that you regard as poor quality).

A headache is a headache. I guess some people enjoy headaches.

Again you use the pejoritive word "headache" where someone elso would say
"some additional maintenance." You are dealing in opinion and semantics in
an attempt to convince others of your point of view. Unconvincing to people
who can parse your statement and look for real information, and unfair to
newbies who need objective information on which to base their choices.

 

[J L Williams]

The message <Q_3he.1337650$6l.638758@pd7tw2no>

Here's a posting from that guy, referred to ;-)

If you use my email address as shown in the header above and ask for the
Epson Cleaning Manual, I will gladly send you a copy at no charge.
Please mention which model printer is involved a bit of a description as
to what you are seeing.

Art

Hi Art, I found your addy with google and sent off an email to you.
I have two printers clogged, Stylus color lls prints only black, and
the color 440 wont print anything at all. This was just after fitting
3rd party carts.
Cheers and TIA.
Jim

 

[Jon O'Brien]

So you *never* check the oil, water, tyre pressure, brake fluid levels
etc? I'd hate to be with you when you breakdown.....

I thought we'd already established that he's not old enough to drive.

Jon.

 

[Hecate]

When you buy a car you really do not want a maintenance headache. You
want to drive. Well the same should be true about printing. You want
to do photography and enjoy the result; not nursemaid a printer.

So you never send your car for maintenance then? I'm glad I'm not
driving on the roads where you are...

--

Hecate - The Real One
(e-mail address removed)
Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
you don't have, to impress people you don't like...