Epson C86 - an expensive lesson!

A

ajmayo

My fourth C86, replaced over a year of frustration, has now failed just
like all the others.

Although being fed only genuine Epson cartridges, none of these
printers was able to perform light-duty printing (maybe 10 pages/week)
without continuous clogging, which eventually could not be rectified by
head cleaning at all. Printer kept in a clean,dry, 20 degree centigrade
office and fed with good quality 80gsm A4 paper.

Now, I don't usually get angry about hardware failures. Things die. But
I feel deeply ripped off by Epson. It grieves me how much money I spent
on printer cartridges, most of which went into endless attempts to keep
the heads unclogged.

Firstly, you cannot clean just one ink colour, so every head clean
depletes all your ink cartridges - and it's a serious issue, because a
couple of cleans and maybe a quarter of the ink in the cartridge set -
all of them - has been wasted. At something like fifty bucks for a set
this is simply not funny. Other manufacturers - e.g Canon, support
cleaning individual heads.

Secondly, the cartridges report empty even when there's obviously ink
still in there. Now, Epson will simply claim that this is necessary to
prevent air bubbles getting into the printhead, but how come my old
Canon printer would literally run until the cartridge ran dry, then
simply replace it and, presto, no problem.

I'm going back to Canon (or maybe HP). I am upset at Canon also,
because my previous Canon printer had a printhead failure and the
printhead is a user-replaceable component (just unclips) that,
interestingly, costs as much as a new printer to replace, even though
Canon initially suggested otherwise in its marketing material, but hey,
that's life.

If you think about the amount of polluting materials created in
manufacturing a printer, its simply not good enough to rip consumers
off like this. We have only the one planet. Now I will be discarding
something that contaminated thousands of gallons of water during
manufacture, and crapped up someone's living environment somewhere in
China. This is simply NOT acceptable, Epson (and Canon). It is NOT.

I note that my Samsung laser printer, purchased over a year ago for
about the same cost as a pack of Epson cartridges, has soldiered on
magnificently. It has printed thousand of pages without a glitch.
Recently it ran out of toner. I paid about 10 bucks for a bottle of
toner from an internet outfit and refilled the cartridge. It is now
good for another thousand pages or more. The drum seems to be just
fine. This is how it should be.

I can't understand how we, as consumers, have allowed ourselves to be
so royally screwed by inkjet printer manufacturers. I know,
unfortunately, that Japanese companies can sometimes have a rather odd
attitude to product lifetimes - some companies (Teac were one) - are
great, some just don't want to know about anything over a year old.

When we had matrix printers and other technology (e.g the older
daisy-wheel printers etc) then after-market consumables were reasonably
priced and these machines were economical to run. Now we have Epson
suing everyone in sight to stop them selling third party cartridges,
for instance. This has to stop.

Can anyone suggest a reliable inkjet model with individual ink
cartridges - NOT a photo printer, just standard CMYK. At present the
Canon Pixma looks promising, although whether the printhead failure I
had before is now resolved, who knows?. Admittedly the old Canon did
print quite a lot of stuff before it failed. Compared to this wretched
bunch of Epsons which between all four of them probably managed a ream
of paper in total.

I will say that Epson's model of dealers who replace under warranty is
very good. But then, if they are having this kind of failure rate,
maybe that's the only option. Note that each replacement begins with a
progressively shorter warranty though, so eventually, like me, you're
screwed

I am going to box up this printer, and send it, with a polite letter,
by registered mail, to the UK general manager of Epson. Sure, it'll
cost me. But I will have the satisfaction of knowing someone else will
at least be mildly hassled. Of course, if we all started boycotting the
worst offenders, that would be even better. But I know other Epson
users have had more luck then me and that other printer manufacturers
have had their share of criticism. But for a mature product, I think we
expect better than this as consumers, all told.
 
Z

zakezuke

Firstly, you cannot clean just one ink colour, so every head clean
depletes all your ink cartridges -

This is very true. The printer employs a pump that sucks the ink out
of the cartridges.
Other manufacturers - e.g Canon, support
cleaning individual heads.

The best I can do on my ip3000 is cleaning of the color, or cleaning of
the black manualy though I think if I pop in a cyan it will clean just
cyan. There are automatic cleaning cycles as well, just not to the
large volume that Epson does.
Secondly, the cartridges report empty even when there's obviously ink
still in there. Now, Epson will simply claim that this is necessary to
prevent air bubbles getting into the printhead, but how come my old
Canon printer would literally run until the cartridge ran dry, then
simply replace it and, presto, no problem.

Clogs on canons are less catostrophic than on Epson. For one thing
Epson heads have a longer nozzle, and also epson heads cost hundrads of
dollars. But still a canon would burn out eventually where epson would
just kind of vibrate. Still on modern canons you can print beyond
empty if you stick.
I'm going back to Canon (or maybe HP). I am upset at Canon also,
because my previous Canon printer had a printhead failure and the
printhead is a user-replaceable component (just unclips) that,
interestingly, costs as much as a new printer to replace, even though
Canon initially suggested otherwise in its marketing material, but hey,
that's life.

They are much cheaper in Japan, but elsewhere they are typicaly 1/2 to
2/3 the value of the printer. The printer more often than not is on
sale, and the ink costs 1/2 to 2/3 the value of the printer as well.
The reality is assuming 10 cartridge changes we are talking about
something that adds about a dollar per cartridge. The price isn't bad,
just getting a new printer is often a better deal.

But at the very least they are designed to be serviced by the end user
to some degree. And they do take the time to referbish many models.
If you think about the amount of polluting materials created in
manufacturing a printer, its simply not good enough to rip consumers
off like this. We have only the one planet.

Oddly enough Epson employs piezo heads which last longer than Canon
heads, they just clog like the dickens.

Can anyone suggest a reliable inkjet model with individual ink
cartridges - NOT a photo printer, just standard CMYK. At present the
Canon Pixma looks promising, although whether the printhead failure I
had before is now resolved, who knows?. Admittedly the old Canon did
print quite a lot of stuff before it failed. Compared to this wretched
bunch of Epsons which between all four of them probably managed a ream
of paper in total.

Near as i'm aware, Canon, Brother, and Epson make such a beast that
have a pigmented black and are geard tward text and some graphics.
Brother and Epson also employ piezos rather than thermal jets.
I am going to box up this printer, and send it, with a polite letter,
by registered mail, to the UK general manager of Epson. Sure, it'll
cost me. But I will have the satisfaction of knowing someone else will
at least be mildly hassled. Of course, if we all started boycotting the
worst offenders, that would be even better. But I know other Epson
users have had more luck then me and that other printer manufacturers
have had their share of criticism. But for a mature product, I think we
expect better than this as consumers, all told.

Low end epsons are enjoyed by those who print daily, and are best
enjoyed by those who buy external ink tanks, and an external waste
tank.
 
F

Fenrir Enterprises

Can anyone suggest a reliable inkjet model with individual ink
cartridges - NOT a photo printer, just standard CMYK. At present the
Canon Pixma looks promising, although whether the printhead failure I
had before is now resolved, who knows?. Admittedly the old Canon did
print quite a lot of stuff before it failed. Compared to this wretched
bunch of Epsons which between all four of them probably managed a ream
of paper in total.

I'm not sure if it's available in the UK but the HP K550 takes giant
ink carts that are easily refilled (auto-reset chips are still being
worked on), is CMYK, and has pigment black. It has user-replacable
printheads that are changed just like ink cartridges. However, the
K550 has two colors per printhead (which cost $60 US each), so you
might want to look into finding the older HP 1200D on eBay or such
(Not the same as the PSC 1200! - this company uses the same # for
multiple printers), which has bigger print margins, but has individual
color printheads, about $30-35 each.

---

http://www.FenrirOnline.com

Computer services, custom metal etching,
arts, crafts, and much more.
 
D

Davy

Oh no not another one...
I know the feeling too... my C62 clogged on the 2nd day was litterall
clodded into a waste bin ..... by the Epson service agent and hande
me a replacement, minus inks.... that clogged on the 4th day an
went the same way inspite of using Epson inks

Never again... so I went and got a Canon and can honestly say I hav
never ever done a manual head clean yet since last June/July, yo
will find Canons are less problamatic and a darn more economical t
run.

I doubt if you will get any joy especially with Epson UK, the Custome
care had me doing this and doing that wasting brand new inks the
along came the so called Technical department..... trying this an
trying that until the tanks was virtually empty

Epson are unpridictable printers... and they just seem not to care
hoot as long as it their ink your're wasting

Dav
 
N

Newshound

Yeah, I gave up on Epson too for the same reason. Can't remember the model.
Currently running a cheap lexmark laser, an HP psc 1205 all in one, and a
little Selphy 510 for photos.
 
J

Jan Alter

I easily empathize with your predicament. The Dura-brite pigment ink used in
them was a design catastrophe and has ruined most likely thousands upon
thousands of their C- series printers that Epson prescribes use it. The ink
dries too fast and then even within the printhead itself, causing the clogs,
as it did yours. In most cases the clogs are irrevocable. I think I've
discovered the workaround, which is to use a good quality dye base ink and
spongeless cartridges from MIS. In the two months I've been using it on
three of the remaining C-84 machines, new out of the box, they seem to be
running fine and give good color printing results. If anyone is considering
switching I would be thoughtful to how the pigment ink and the dye base ink
might mix. It might be a good move to run cleaning cartridges through the
heads first to purge the Durabrite stuff and then start with the dye base
ink.
Several years ago our school bought sixteen C-84 Epsons. I put six of
them into service over two years and with the exception of one, which is
used daily by the teacher, the other five have clogged partially or totally.
Writing to Epson about the situation recently the rep had no good answer
except to use them daily and then recommended that for the remaining eleven
printers that I hadn't put into service Epson would send me sixteen sets of
color and black ink, because the ink that came with the original printers
would have expired by now. I could only gulp at the idea of using the crap,
but I accepted it. Someone else at our school is going to sell it for us on
Ebay.
Epson makes printers that do great color printing. They unfortunately
don't make them for the greatest ink efficiency or consider the waste of the
printer when it comes to pairing up the right ink with them.
 
M

measekite

Jan said:
I easily empathize with your predicament. The Dura-brite pigment ink used in
them was a design catastrophe and has ruined most likely thousands upon
thousands of their C- series printers that Epson prescribes use it. The ink
dries too fast and then even within the printhead itself, causing the clogs,
as it did yours. In most cases the clogs are irrevocable. I think I've
discovered the workaround, which is to use a good quality dye base ink and
spongeless cartridges from MIS.
since they refuse to disclose what they are selling both on their
website and onver the phone as well as in all forms of correspondence
you never know what you are buying. the best thing to do is to junk the
C series Epson printers and buy one of the following:
Epson R300 series
Canon IP42/5200

on sale they will cost about the same as a set of carts.
 
C

Cary C

Anonymouswrote
My fourth C86, replaced over a year of frustration, has now faile
just like all the others
I enjoyed my C80 and its just-barely-still-under-warranty replacemen
from Epson, a C84, when the C80 died. I admit, it is frustratin
accepting that a printer is a "disposible" item, but whe
the replacement failed after a year, I also admit I bought another i
the C-series, the Stylus C88. I expected it to be an improvement ove
the others, which I basically liked

Big surprise - it didn't print nearly as well as its predecessors! I
coughed up way too much ink, especially cyan, and I ruined a lot o
specialty paper believing I could adjust it - cheered on b
non-toll-free tech support, of course. Happy ending: I took it bac
to the office supply store for a full refund. Maybe it was a lemon
..
Secondly, the cartridges report empty even when there's obviousl in
still in there.

Are you going to apply for the special compensation under the clas
action settlement I've been reading about in various photo sit
posts? If you owned an Epson printer (see below for link to web sit
with a very long list of models) between April 8, 1999 and May 8
2006 you may be affected by a settlement of a class action lawsui
concerning Epson ink cartridges
Get more information here: http://www.epsonsettlement.com/index.ht

Don't know where you live...The “Settlement Class” certified by th
Court for settlement purposes is defined as all persons, sol
proprietorships, partnerships, corporations or any other entitie
located within the 50 United States and the District o
Columbia...and it might not suit you: Epson's offer is $45 credit i
their store
 
Z

zakezuke

Epson R300 series
Epson R300 series
Canon IP42/5200

on sale they will cost about the same as a set of carts.

Unfortunatly measekite you don't know the English market, which is
where the parent poster was posting from. "colour" is a clue.

Is there any reason you'd reccomend a r300 series over the r200 series?
Usually you rant and rave over the fact that printers with screens are
no good. Also, assuming US prices, the r200 as a referb is less than
the ink. The r300 tends to be more than the ink. If talking the
english market, I believe 60 quid is what one would expect to spend on
OEM ink for either the r200 or r300 series.

The Canon ip4200 is at least close in terms of cost per ink vs cost
printer. But while I have seen the ip4200 onsale for close to the cost
of the ink... I've never actually seen it onsale for the same price as
the ink. The ip5200 I got at a good price, $121.86 shipped. The ink
would cost in US terms $71.05. In my case the printer cost 72% more
than the ink. That is as onsale as I've ever seen the ip5200.

What's really sad is you took a reasonable statement, but quoted the
wrong printers. The ip4200 "onsale" is $90ish... shipped (buy.com $92)
or 30% more than the ink. UK 70 quid is a good deal (dabs) That is at
the very least "somewhat" close, within $20 bucks. Same with the r200
series, you can get the r200/r220 for between 60 and 70 quid. The r300
series tends to be 100 quid.

+5 points some a semi decent idea, but -10 points for quoting printers
which are beyond 25% higher than the cost of the ink.
 
D

Davy

It seems a majority of problems happens just after the warranty runs
out, round about the 12 month period, if not before.

Something that Epson ignored, could it be that they assume there will
be no problems in say 6, 12 months time or whatever.... "well,
they work ok now sod what happens after 12 months", seems to be
their attitude.

May be they expect these people to go out and buy another Epson
clogger.

Davy
 
A

Arthur Entlich

You have posted a very eloquent commentary about your experience with a
series of Epson printers and the environmental consequences and you are
correct in noting the business model which allows continual assaults on
our planetary resources, without consideration to not only the cost of
manufacturer, but the cost of dismantling. We have become very willing
to make anything over about 1 year old into trash.

I agree with your approach toward Epson UK, creating your own "take
back" system to show your dissatisfaction.

I have been cautioning people who need a printer to consider the ink ...
Durabrite is fast drying, and also a bit more likely to clog the heads,
as a resolve,

Art
 
J

Jan Alter

It's difficult to say how long the present batch of Epsons can actually last
before breakdown if not by clog, but to give you an idea of what previous
printers are doing we started out at our school in June 1999 with three
dozen Epson 740 machines. Twenty-six of them are still busy working. One of
them was stolen. In 1981 we purchased a dozen 880 printers. One has died. I
think a bad circuit board. The black just refused to continue, and it did
not appear to be any type of clog. The other 880's are all running nicely.
We've got seven C-80 machines, and all are working, five C-82 printers, all
working, purchased in '02-03. Our biggest problems have occured with the
C-84 and the "Dura-brite poison". From what I understand the C-88 uses a
Dura-brite _?__ ink but it's not the same as the previous version. It may be
less pron to clogging, or maybe not.
It's unfortunate in the way Epson figures in making its money as of late;
as its wasteful, and thoughtless in design, as well as breeding a good
relationship with the people who would buy their products.
 
C

Cary C

Jan Alterwrote
Our biggest problems have occured with the
C-84 and the "Dura-brite poison". From what I understan
the C-88 uses a Dura-brite _?__ ink but it's not the same as th
previous version. It may be less pron to clogging, or maybe not.

Jan
Thanks for this info! It explains my C-84's demise (in the end, n
amount of head cleaning cured the banding), and on the C-88, it woul
seem the cure was worse than the ailment; i.e., instead of clogging
it spewed out so much ink that "bronzing" is too mild
term. But they tried. I really don't want to think of Epson as
monster. As a photographer, Epson's high-end printers are considere
the very best, and prior to reading these posts, I ordered one
 
D

Dave

Cary said:
Are you going to apply for the special compensation under the class
action settlement I've been reading about in various photo site
posts? If you owned an Epson printer (see below for link to web site
with a very long list of models) between April 8, 1999 and May 8,
2006 you may be affected by a settlement of a class action lawsuit
concerning Epson ink cartridges.
Get more information here: http://www.epsonsettlement.com/index.htm

Don't know where you live...The "Settlement Class" certified by the
Court for settlement purposes is defined as all persons, sole
proprietorships, partnerships, corporations or any other entities
located within the 50 United States and the District of
Columbia...and it might not suit you: Epson's offer is $45 credit in
their store!

Read the whole thing... you also have the option of receiving 25 in
cash and 20 dollar credit.
 
E

Ed Light

Just got rid of an Epson C64 for the same reason.

Now happily using an HP 5940. Highly reccomend it as a replacement. The
printheads are part of the cartridges, and they don't seem to mind going a
week without printing and they don't use most of the ink cleaning themselves
like the C64 did. It prints as well and faster, and the ink is nearly
waterproof when it dries. I wouldn't get a cheaper HP. No need to get the
photo cartridge for it.

And you can refill the cartridges, though the ink levels no longer show. Be
sure to use good ink so the head parking area doesn't gum up. Calidad is ok.
Don't run it dry if refilling as that kills the heads. Oh, and you can
actually run without a color cartridge, or without a black cartridge, and it
makes black from the color.
--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
(e-mail address removed)
Thanks, robots.

Bring the Troops Home:
http://bringthemhomenow.org

Fight Spam:
http://bluesecurity.com
 
E

Ed Light

Ed Light said:
Now happily using an HP 5940.

And you can refill the cartridges, though the ink levels no longer show.
Be sure to use good ink so the head parking area doesn't gum up. Calidad
is ok.

I haven't refilled yet. One person had good years' experience with Calidad.

But another posted that the cartridges in the 5940 have much finer droplets.
So I can't say ahead of time how it will go. I think Calidad is a major
brand and my supplier maxpatchink is very responsible.


--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
(e-mail address removed)
Thanks, robots.

Bring the Troops Home:
http://bringthemhomenow.org

Fight Spam:
http://bluesecurity.com
 
M

measekite

Ed said:
I haven't refilled yet. One person had good years' experience with Calidad.

But another posted that the cartridges in the 5940 have much finer droplets.
So I can't say ahead of time how it will go. I think Calidad is a major
brand and my supplier maxpatchink is very responsible.
it is not a brand. it is a relabel
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Similar Threads

Epson XP-3150 not printing 2
Epson Printer Problem 6
EPSON Printers 17
Cheap ink and toner supplies. 10
Here is the solution! 10
Saving money on Ink! 5
Saving money on Ink! 1
Canon TS5060 Inkjet Printer 2

Top