Canon CLI-8/PGI-5 resetter question

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

YOU ARE A FILTHY STINKING LIAR

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.periphs.printers/msg/39416bccb470b1e1

In this post you clearly stated that KMP ink was "better" than OEM
because of the highlighter test. As I've stated I've not used the
stuff, but I'm told it drys quickly, is blacker, and holds up better
to highlighters than OEM.

 

[John Jonas]

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.periphs.printers/msg/39416bccb470b1e1

In this post you clearly stated that KMP ink was "better" than OEM
because of the highlighter test. As I've stated I've not used the
stuff, but I'm told it drys quickly, is blacker, and holds up better
to highlighters than OEM.

Readers in Google Groups rate messages (posts) they've read on a scale of
1 to 5, with 5 being "excellent, I would recommend this post", to 1 "poor,
I would not recommend this post". Measekite has posted his "technical
expertise" in various tech groups involving printers, cell phones, Windows,
digital photos, graphics, computer hardware, etc. But in 1,163 ratings
received, Measekite has an average of 1 star which is equivalent to "I
would not recommend this poster." The lowest rating you can give is 1 star.
So it's quite conceivable his actual help rating is closer to ZERO than 1.
That would make him NO HELP at all in all things technical. Are we
surprised...


JohnJonas

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

The above top posted statement is incorrect.  The mfgs are not forcing
anybody to use the correct ink.  There are many jerks that do not follow
the advice of the mfg and get lousy results but either they lie about what
they get or they are unknowingly willing to accept poorer results and
enjoy complaining and having issues with their printers.

The majority of printer users do in fact use OEM productgs.

Manufacturers are doing their best to force users to use their ink.
With Epson they employ a patented cartridge design and use chips.
Same with Canon, they went after third party manufacturers that used
prisms in the UK, and they started using chips in their cartridges.
HP has been using chips for some time, though many printers are the
head on the cart type which to be fair is more of an issue to have
refilled, and can't exactly be manufactured with ease by a 3rd party,
well, until the patent expired.

Manufacturers are in fact trying to force users to buy their ink.

I'm perfectly willing to accept there are some cartridges and inks
that have issues. Making an informed choice is important. That's why
people like my self share information about products we've actually
tried. MIS inks I've used enough to say my printer did not explode.
I replaced the head after 15 cartridge changes. I saved over a grand
which I used for a modest vacation, Porta del Carmen, Cancun, Merida,
Chitzen Itza.

For aftermarket ink for the Canon, there isn't really an archival
solution, but my main application is printing on discs where the discs
are in cases not near sunlight. Not an issue. OEM Canon ink is not
very archival in the first place, so I see little point paying 10x as
much for a substandard product. For archival, I'm going to use the
Epson 1280 with pigmented ink. That without a doubt will out perform
OEM dye which to be fair was pretty lame on that model.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Nice to not be at the mercy of the OEM ink market, have the ability to
use 3rd party and formulations of inks that may be different than the
manufacturer is willing to offer, and to be able to reuse both the
cartridges and the resetter long term, rather than either going into the
landfill.

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Either that or both fail in rapid succession.

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I'm only responding to mindless Measekite because he's been quoted, so I
have seen his reply, and because he is, as per usual, speaking out of
his lower orifice.

Canon printers may work without resetting the chip while losing the ink
monitor systems which may lead to a head burnout, but Epson printers
simply will not work if the cartridges chip is not reset or replaced
with a new one. Epson and other inkjet manufacturers have used legal
means based, in part, on the political climate in North America, to
"protect" their ink sales by claiming patent infringement. In some
cases, the patents themselves were adopted to force 3rd party companies
to violate them in order for the cartridges to work with the printer design.

My hope is that with the change of administration in the White House and
more awareness of the environmental impact of these horrible business
models, as in the EU, North America will be legislated into providing
refillable cartridges.

Art

If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[Arthur Entlich]

The only extra I wish to add to this is that not all 3rd party inks are
inferior to OEM, in fact, quite the contrary. Some of the most
interesting and ingenious new ink formulations are coming from small 3rd
party companies.

I am not speaking of the low cost Chinese inks that compete with OEM,
but of new innovations. If it were not for 3rd party inks, I doubt we
would have seen long life pigment inks nearly as quickly. And to this
day none of the OEM companies are producing dye sub inks for inkjets, or
many other specialty inks.

Art



If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[ECLiPSE 2002]

Many thanks for the informative post - I did try the resetter on the
black cartridge that was about 1/2 full and it apparently worked
successfully - the lights came on as predicted in the instructions.
I guess the rattling was not anything of significance.

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

I called Canon and Epson and they say you are lying when you make these
stupid statements.

There is evidence to the contrary. There are the chips, the lawsuits
which you have reported on in the past.

That is dumb.  You do not have to buy their printers; therefore you do not
have to use their ink.

That's the thing, you shouldn't be obligated to buy their ink.

If you spent less that is understandable but you saved nothing.,

I printed the same amount for 75% less than OEM. My application
didn't require archival ink as they were freaking disks that live in a
jewel case.

I saved money, as in I spent less for a similar result.

According to Wilhelm you are giving incorrect information.  Canon's Claria
inks and Epsons K34 inks are archival when using appropriatge paper.

Canon does not make Claria ink. That's Epson.
Chromalife 100 and 100+ are not very archival at all. Canon's dye
printers are not geared for archival papers, mainly the swellable
polymer. The extraordinary number they quote is archival in an album,
where the really important number is gas and lightfastness.

Now Claria ink is at least somewhat archival, more so than Canon dye.

Now Canon does make some pigments for consumer models, mainly the
pixmapro 9500 and MX7600. The cheapest is the mx7600 at $400.
However there is at least one company who makes pigment inks for the
Canon consumer models, but I don't know how well they work in models
that use 1pl nozzles. Presently the best they offer for a pigment
printer is 2pl nozzles.

 

[Your name]

I called Canon and Epson and they say you are lying when you make
these stupid statements.

That's right, Canon Customer Support has those kind of secret answers in
their manuals by their phones, just in case anyone asks. LOL!!!!

Your made up reply is soooooooooooo lame! Why do you even bother with this
losing charade you keep playing for years. Everyone reading your posts
takes you for an idiot. Just quit and walk away already.



JohnJonas

 

[TJ]

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.periphs.printers/msg/39416bccb470b1e1

In this post you clearly stated that KMP ink was "better" than OEM
because of the highlighter test. As I've stated I've not used the
stuff, but I'm told it drys quickly, is blacker, and holds up better
to highlighters than OEM.

I'm afraid I must disagree with you here, IEP. Looking at the post
carefully, it's only his sloppy reply technique that makes it APPEAR
that he's saying KMP ink is better. To me, knowing Measekite, that's
clearly NOT what he meant, and I think anybody who has read his
one-track drivel for long would agree.

You're trying to corner him with a technicality, and a weak one at that.
That's the kind of tactic HE'D use. Sigh. IEP, you're better than that.

TJ

 

[measekite]

I'm afraid I must disagree with you here, IEP. Looking at the post
carefully, it's only his sloppy reply technique that makes it APPEAR
that he's saying KMP ink is better. To me, knowing Measekite, that's
clearly NOT what he meant, and I think anybody who has read his
one-track drivel for long would agree.

You're trying to corner him with a technicality, and a weak one at that.
That's the kind of tactic HE'D use. Sigh. IEP, you're better than that.

TJ

THAT IS BECAUSE THIS GARBAGE LIES. I KNOW WHAT I SAY. AND THAT IS THIS.

OEM INK IS THE BEST.

OEM INK PRODUCES THE BEST RESULTS.

OEM INK HAS LESS CHANCE OF FADING.

OEM INK HAS LESS CHANCE TO CLOG YOUR PRINTER.

AND

OEM INK IS WAY OVERPRICED.

 

[Taliesyn]

OEM INK IS THE BEST.

OEM INK PRODUCES THE BEST RESULTS.

OEM INK HAS LESS CHANCE OF FADING.

OEM INK HAS LESS CHANCE TO CLOG YOUR PRINTER.

AND

OEM INK IS WAY OVERPRICED.

And that is why I follow your suggestion diligently and use aftermarket
ink: because OEM INK IS WAY OVERPRICED. I may or may not match OEM 100% in
all the other qualities you mentioned above, but I don't sell my printed
product so I don't give a hoot. I'm only paying from 5% to 30% OEM cost
depending whether I use bulk ink or remanufactured OEM cartridges. Glad we
all agree why aftermarket ink exists.

-Taliesyn

 

[TJ]

OEM INK IS THE BEST.

OEM INK PRODUCES THE BEST RESULTS.

OEM INK HAS LESS CHANCE OF FADING.

OEM INK HAS LESS CHANCE TO CLOG YOUR PRINTER.

AND

OEM INK IS WAY OVERPRICED.

Sigh. We've heard all that from you before, much too often. Understand
this: Most of us don't care, or disagree, and shouting isn't going to
change our minds. But do keep it up. It should convince those who come
here seeking help that you're as certifiable as those who have been here
a while know you to be.

TJ

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

OEM INK IS THE BEST.

It really depends on your application. There is little reason why OEM
is the best other than there are not many products that compete with
OEM on the level of color gamut, longevity, and smearing. But as you
pointed out there are options for ink that exceed OEM ink in some
areas.

OEM INK PRODUCES THE BEST RESULTS.

Define best.

How is it possible that one company can consistently make the best
product?

OEM INK HAS LESS CHANCE OF FADING.

For pigmented ink, this is not an issue. Keep in mind that Canon
doesn't have their full specifications on Weilhelm's site. You have
to get their information second hand. Canon OEM dye ink isn't very
lightfast or gasfast in contrast to dye solutions by HP or Epson.
However there is aftermarket pigmented ink for the Canon, which would
be far far far more fade resistant than OEM.

Still if your application is dark storage, or printing short term
documents, this is simply not an issue. I don't need to spend 10x as
much printing off a google map.

OEM INK HAS LESS CHANCE TO CLOG YOUR PRINTER.

If we're talking canon, the main issue isn't the fact that the head
clogs, the head burns out. It's a thermal printhead, they do that.
The service manual, when you crunch the numbers, suggests your printer
and printhead are end of life after the 10th cartridge change. I tend
to see 15 my self.

AND

OEM INK IS WAY OVERPRICED.

By a factor of 10 overpriced.

The main thing you don't seem to get is these are our printers. We
can use any product we want to with with them. We are under no
contractual obligation to use OEM ink. That being said, office store
ink, OEM tends to cost only a little more than their aftermarket, and
as such I would probably buy OEM. I do buy OEM cartridges for the
Canon to refill. But it's not Canon's business what I put in the
printer. I could put kool-aid in there and as it's my product, it's
my right. Before you knock Kool-aid in finland it's a popular dye for
wool.

 

[measekite]

It really depends on your application. There is little reason why OEM
is the best other than there are not many products that compete with
OEM on the level of color gamut, longevity, and smearing. But as you
pointed out there are options for ink that exceed OEM ink in some
areas.


Define best.

How is it possible that one company can consistently make the best
product?

A Simple answer for a simple mind. They designed the printer and know it
beter than anybody; even the undocumented quirks so they know how to make
the best.

For pigmented ink, this is not an issue. Keep in mind that Canon
doesn't have their full specifications on Weilhelm's site. You have to
get their information second hand. Canon OEM dye ink isn't very
lightfast or gasfast in contrast to dye solutions by HP or Epson.
However there is aftermarket pigmented ink for the Canon, which would be
far far far more fade resistant than OEM.

I never had a Canon print fade in over 5 years. I am sure it will one day
faster than pigmented ink from an Epson.

Still if your application is dark storage, or printing short term
documents, this is simply not an issue. I don't need to spend 10x as
much printing off a google map.

Best and the amount one spends are two different things.

If we're talking canon, the main issue isn't the fact that the head
clogs, the head burns out. It's a thermal printhead, they do that. The
service manual, when you crunch the numbers, suggests your printer and
printhead are end of life after the 10th cartridge change. I tend to
see 15 my self.



By a factor of 10 overpriced.

The main thing you don't seem to get is these are our printers. We can
use any product we want to with with them. We are under no contractual
obligation to use OEM ink. That being said, office store ink, OEM tends
to cost only a little more than their aftermarket, and as such I would
probably buy OEM. I do buy OEM cartridges for the Canon to refill. But
it's not Canon's business what I put in the printer. I could put

As long as they warranty the printer it is their business.

 

[measekite]

And that is why I follow your suggestion diligently and use aftermarket
ink: because OEM INK IS WAY OVERPRICED. I may or may not match OEM 100% in
all the other qualities you mentioned above, but I don't sell my printed
product so I don't give a hoot. I'm only paying from 5% to 30% OEM cost
depending whether I use bulk ink or remanufactured OEM cartridges. Glad we
all agree why aftermarket ink exists.

-Taliesyn

There is $$ and some find that overriding when it comes to quality.

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

On Dec 28, 4:55 pm, measekite

A Simple answer for a simple mind.  They designed the printer and know it
beter than anybody; even the undocumented quirks so they know how to make
the best.

Quaker State doesn't make cars, and so far as I'm aware no auto
manufacturer makes oil, gas, or other fluids.

This logic also presumes that you are being sold the best that can be
made for a given unit. Obviously it's the goal of any business to
make a profit, and as such they have to balance out the cost to
produce vs sale price.

You can not automatically assume that a manufacturer knows what's best
for their products. The best they can do under ideal circumstances is
product a product that covers the mean consumer.

I never had a Canon print fade in over 5 years.  I am sure it will one day
faster than pigmented ink from an Epson.

I highly doubt that you even bothered to check other than looking at
it. You also have no credibility. Even so, I trust Weilhelm over
you. And you use costco paper? That's not exactly archival. Good
looking paper, but not exactly a good choice if you want it to stick
around for a while.

http://www.canon.com/technology/canon_tech/explanation/chromalife.html

"ChromaLife100 is an advanced system for preserving the beauty of
photos that combines Canon genuine dye inks and genuine photo paper to
produce photos with 100-year album life, 30-year lightfastness, and 10-
year gas resistance.*"

IIRC 100 years in an album with an air tight seal, 30 years under
glass, 10 years if exposed to air. This is actually not all that
great in contrast to Epson or HP solutions. Sorry dude.

I can't say I have any aftermarket prints over 5 years old. I do have
some discs 3 years old, but I've since changed printers so it would be
impossible to evaluate them.

Best and the amount one spends are two different things.

Let's use their 10 year figure, and let's presume a google map? Do
you really need to spend 10x as much to print out a one time use map?

Further, the black is pigmented and is used on plain paper. OEM
hasn't even been tested, but since it's pigment it's not prone to
fading as much as dye. It's simply not an issue.

Let's say you want an archival print. Odds are high you're NOT going
to be using Canon dye models in the first place.


I do buy OEM cartridges for the Canon to refill. But

As long as they warranty the printer it is their business.

No it isn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act

Obviously if the ink you used damaged your printer then they do have
every right to deny a warranty claim. That goes without saying. But
all you need to do as a consumer is to prove the product isn't working
specifications. It's up to them to prove the ink you used caused the
problem. They can't do that.

For canon, all you need to do is print with 10 cartridges per tank in
order to match head life using OEM ink. I see 15 my self, others see
more.

Now, there are a couple of points I can agree with. Ignoring a
printer it may be possible that OEM does better than aftermarket. I
happened to have a bottle of Hobbiecolors that's over a year old. I
didn't seal the cap and there was very little yellow remaining and the
yellow jelled up and became semi-solid. The yellow in my cartridges
did not, nor did the cyan, magenta, or either black. I'm sure OEM
would do something similar, but my experience base with recovering
printers that have been ignored with OEM ink has been pretty good.

This is pretty much a moot point since the cost of a used printer with
OEM ink is likely to equal the cost of a new replacement. It only
makes sense if filling it with ink costs a good deal less.

 

[measekite]

On Dec 28, 4:55 pm, measekite

Quaker State doesn't make cars, and so far as I'm aware no auto
manufacturer makes oil, gas, or other fluids.

This is about the dumbest reasoning I have ever come across. Auto mfg
give out specifications to supplies for them to meet. I do not think
printer mfg give out their specifications to the scumbags that run the ink
business.

Maybe there is melamine in the ink.

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

This is about the dumbest reasoning I have ever come across.  Auto mfg
give out specifications to supplies for them to meet.  I do not think
printer mfg give out their specifications to the scumbags that run the ink
business.

Maybe there is melamine in the ink.

Do auto manufacturers give out specifications, or do they build a
product based on the specifications of the consumables on the
market?

Did you know your warranty could have been voided if you used
aftermarket oil in your car? It's true. That's one thing that the
Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act covered.

As for specifications, canon is required to by law to release MSDS,
which include a basic list of what is in the ink.

Glycerin 5-10%
Ethylene glycol 5-10%
Substituted naphthalene
sulfonic acid 1-3%
Heterocyclic compound 5-10 %
Water 60-80%

This is the ink base. No secrets, nothing all that complex. Matching
the viscosity is trial work for a company who makes inks. Color
matching, well, spectrum analyzers are common place. Boiling point?
Heat it, measure it when it boils. But making aftermarket ink is
rather trivial since the ink base is ****ing water.

But regardless, what evidence do you have that Canon designed the inks
for the printer? Why not the other way around? Don't get me wrong,
canon has made little changes in their ink in the past decade. You
would need the patents in order to justify your assertion. I'm not
saying you are wrong, I'm saying I don't know.