BIOS Savior for A8N-SLI

[milleron]

Asus' Crash-Free BIOS notwithstanding, the most elegant protection
against BIOS-flashing disasters is the BIOS Savior by IOSS in Taiwan.
Unfortunately, they don't seem to have updated their Web site and
compatibility list for about four years. Nevertheless, the BIOS
Savior is still for sale. Mwave has a 4MB version,
http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA09803
but there's no compatibility table there, either.
Is it possible that this version would work with the 4MB BIOS on the
A8N-SLI?


Ron

 

[Paul]

Asus' Crash-Free BIOS notwithstanding, the most elegant protection
against BIOS-flashing disasters is the BIOS Savior by IOSS in Taiwan.
Unfortunately, they don't seem to have updated their Web site and
compatibility list for about four years. Nevertheless, the BIOS
Savior is still for sale. Mwave has a 4MB version,
http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA09803
but there's no compatibility table there, either.
Is it possible that this version would work with the 4MB BIOS on the
A8N-SLI?


Ron

Updates stopped here with the A7N8X.

http://www.ioss.com.tw/web/English/RD1BIOSSavior/CompatiblityList/ASUS.html

This chart is based on the user identifying the part number on
the BIOS chip itself:

http://www.ioss.com.tw/web/English/RD1BIOSSavior/SelectionSheet.html

See if your chip part number matches something in the chart.

Paul

 

[J&SB]

Indeed, I have the same question. This kit sounds like good insurance for
about $25. Please post if you find out more.

 

[J&SB]

There are complete kits here:
http://www.frozencpu.com/scan/se=Electronics/se=IOSS BIOS Savior/mp=menu_search.html
for about $25 but again, it's difficult to know which, if any, is compatible
with the A8N-SLI or A8N-SLI Deluxe.

 

[milleron]

Updates stopped here with the A7N8X.

http://www.ioss.com.tw/web/English/RD1BIOSSavior/CompatiblityList/ASUS.html

This chart is based on the user identifying the part number on
the BIOS chip itself:

http://www.ioss.com.tw/web/English/RD1BIOSSavior/SelectionSheet.html

See if your chip part number matches something in the chart.

Hey, thanks. The second table is one I had not yet seen at IOSS.
Unfortunately, I can't tell anything about the BIOS because I haven't
purchased the board yet. I'd like to install a BIOS Savior as I'm
building, so I wanted to purchase it at the same time I bought the
motherboard. Perhaps someone who already has an A8N-SLI could tell us
if the Award BIOS matches any part number on the list.
I'm hoping.

BTW, I can't remember ever reading a post about a bad flash where the
CrashFree BIOS did anyone any good. Why doesn't it seem to work as
advertised?

Ron

 

[milleron]

Indeed, I have the same question. This kit sounds like good insurance for
about $25. Please post if you find out more.

Do you already have an Asus NForce 4 board? If so, can you report on
the part number?
Like you say, for $25, it's a good solution, so good that if I can't
ascertain compatibility for certain, I'm probably going to buy a
RD1-PCM4 and try it. I don't think it could damage the original BIOS
because I believe that there's no electrical connection between the
two. it appears that the most one would have to lose is $25.

Ron

 

[Paul]

Hey, thanks. The second table is one I had not yet seen at IOSS.
Unfortunately, I can't tell anything about the BIOS because I haven't
purchased the board yet. I'd like to install a BIOS Savior as I'm
building, so I wanted to purchase it at the same time I bought the
motherboard. Perhaps someone who already has an A8N-SLI could tell us
if the Award BIOS matches any part number on the list.
I'm hoping.

BTW, I can't remember ever reading a post about a bad flash where the
CrashFree BIOS did anyone any good. Why doesn't it seem to work as
advertised?

Ron

The Crashfree concept is to take a single physical flash chip and
partition it into two separate virtual flash chips. For this to
work properly, the "boot block" should never be erased. I suspect
the people who report here, that their upgrade failed, and
Crashfree didn't help them, probably are using the flash tool
to erase the boot block as well as the main code block. That could
account for the failure rate. The tools and instructions don't
make it clear what options to use, to make Crashfree a useful
feature.

If Asus wants to use Crashfree as a beneficial concept, they
should ship the first BIOS with a well tested boot block.
Then, erasing and reprogramming the boot block would not be
necessary. And Crashfree would stand a better chance of working,
as it lives inside the boot block.

Paul


Paul

 

[milleron]

The Crashfree concept is to take a single physical flash chip and
partition it into two separate virtual flash chips. For this to
work properly, the "boot block" should never be erased. I suspect
the people who report here, that their upgrade failed, and
Crashfree didn't help them, probably are using the flash tool
to erase the boot block as well as the main code block. That could
account for the failure rate. The tools and instructions don't
make it clear what options to use, to make Crashfree a useful
feature.

If Asus wants to use Crashfree as a beneficial concept, they
should ship the first BIOS with a well tested boot block.
Then, erasing and reprogramming the boot block would not be
necessary. And Crashfree would stand a better chance of working,
as it lives inside the boot block.

Paul

The DOS flashing utilities don't give the option of leaving the boot
block intact. How does one flash a BIOS without including the boot
block?


Ron

 

[Paul]

The DOS flashing utilities don't give the option of leaving the boot
block intact. How does one flash a BIOS without including the boot
block?


Ron

Hmmm.

There used to be command line switches for that stuff. /sb used to
stand for "skip bootblock".

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit/msg/e5502ac080bedea1

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/fr.comp.os.os2/msg/52f32644968bdb0d

Now, when I test the program, the command line options are not offered.
There is still evidence of them inside the program, but I guess they've
been turned off somehow. It looks to me, like awdflash got rewritten
at some point, and judging by the English used, by people for whom
English was a second language. To quote a text string inside the program:
"Please to confirm input correct file"

I guess this is progress. This is an older version of the flash program.
I don't think there is any reason for you to want to download or look at
this, because it will undoubtedly reject any new BIOS file you feed it.
This is a sample of what the program used to look like. It is about
4KB smaller than the new version, so perhaps the new version has
just tacked a shell onto the front of the program.

ftp://ftp.asus.com.tw/pub/ASUS/mb/socka/nforce2/a7n8x-deluxe/awdflash.zip

In any case, it looks like the user has no control any more with this
program. Either this means Asus is not updating the boot block, or
they are paying lip service to the concept of CrashFree (i.e. it is
updated every time).

Paul

 

[milleron]

Hmmm.

There used to be command line switches for that stuff. /sb used to
stand for "skip bootblock".

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit/msg/e5502ac080bedea1

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/fr.comp.os.os2/msg/52f32644968bdb0d

Now, when I test the program, the command line options are not offered.
There is still evidence of them inside the program, but I guess they've
been turned off somehow. It looks to me, like awdflash got rewritten
at some point, and judging by the English used, by people for whom
English was a second language. To quote a text string inside the program:
"Please to confirm input correct file"

I guess this is progress. This is an older version of the flash program.
I don't think there is any reason for you to want to download or look at
this, because it will undoubtedly reject any new BIOS file you feed it.
This is a sample of what the program used to look like. It is about
4KB smaller than the new version, so perhaps the new version has
just tacked a shell onto the front of the program.

ftp://ftp.asus.com.tw/pub/ASUS/mb/socka/nforce2/a7n8x-deluxe/awdflash.zip

In any case, it looks like the user has no control any more with this
program. Either this means Asus is not updating the boot block, or
they are paying lip service to the concept of CrashFree (i.e. it is
updated every time).

Paul

Do you think they're actually overwriting the boot block with every
flash? If so, I presume that this means that the boot block has the
potential to become corrupted with each flash, and, as soon as it
does, then bye-bye CrashFree.

I'm still going to buy the only BIOS Savior that IOSS makes and see if
it works. If it doesn't, then it should be a fairly simple matter to
remove it and plug the original BIOS back into its original slot.
I've never done this before, though, so I'm wondering how great a
likelihood there is of damaging the mobo or BIOS chip using the
chip-extracting device supplied with the BIOS Savior. Anybody know?


Ron

 

[Paul]

Do you think they're actually overwriting the boot block with every
flash? If so, I presume that this means that the boot block has the
potential to become corrupted with each flash, and, as soon as it
does, then bye-bye CrashFree.

I'm still going to buy the only BIOS Savior that IOSS makes and see if
it works. If it doesn't, then it should be a fairly simple matter to
remove it and plug the original BIOS back into its original slot.
I've never done this before, though, so I'm wondering how great a
likelihood there is of damaging the mobo or BIOS chip using the
chip-extracting device supplied with the BIOS Savior. Anybody know?


Ron

I have extracted a couple hundred chips from PLCC sockets. Basically,
on a given socket, it gets easier the more chips have been in and out
of the same socket. So, the first one will be a little tougher to
remove. (Take note of the pin 1 marker or any other orientation info,
so you put the device back the way you found it. It is easy to rotate
some of these PLCC packages, and the "magic smoke" will escape if
that happens. I remember a poster remarking about a glow that was
coming from a couple of pins on his BIOS flash chip, and that was
the power supply pins on the chip frying. In that case, the BIOS
chip was inserted by his supplier, and apparently the board was
never tested afterwards.)

I've used a pointed object, working diagonally on the chip corners,
easing it out a bit on each side, until it popped free. Occasionally
I've get a slightly bent socket pin by doing that, so there is some
risk. There are various extractor tools, and the objective is to
pull the chip equally on all side, so there is no side force on
the pins. The extractor tool is certainly a better way to do it,
if you have one. (A lip on the end of each extractor leg, is used
to pull up on the bottom of the chip.)

As for experimentally determining what is flashed, when you flash
a BIOS, you can use the backup function to take snapshots of the
chip contents at any time. The first time that the BIOS runs,
it will likely update certain segments of the BIOS chip, like
DMI/ESCD with hardware inventory, and a section referred to as
NVRAM by some of the BIOS messages. On Intel motherboards, you
may find microcode cache segments in the BIOS chip. So, you cannot
expect a BIOS image to stay the same for very long. The boot block
could be nearer to the end of the file, than near the beginning.
But I cannot say with any certainty, as to what delimits the boot
block area. There should be some kind of JUMP instruction in there
somewhere, that jumps to the boot block, as the boot block should
be the first piece of code to run.

Paul

 

[FG]

My advice : contact them by e-mail, stating the type and number of
your BIOS. They usually answer rapidly. My guess is that as long
as the BIOS is the same size it will work.

As long as you disconnect your computer and proceed with care,
your board will not be damaged.

 

[David F. Mishiwiec Sr.]

I always use badflash.com. They're great!

http://www.badflash.com/

 

[milleron]

Hmmm.

There used to be command line switches for that stuff. /sb used to
stand for "skip bootblock".

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit/msg/e5502ac080bedea1

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/fr.comp.os.os2/msg/52f32644968bdb0d

Now, when I test the program, the command line options are not offered.
There is still evidence of them inside the program, but I guess they've
been turned off somehow. It looks to me, like awdflash got rewritten
at some point, and judging by the English used, by people for whom
English was a second language. To quote a text string inside the program:
"Please to confirm input correct file"

I guess this is progress. This is an older version of the flash program.
I don't think there is any reason for you to want to download or look at
this, because it will undoubtedly reject any new BIOS file you feed it.
This is a sample of what the program used to look like. It is about
4KB smaller than the new version, so perhaps the new version has
just tacked a shell onto the front of the program.

ftp://ftp.asus.com.tw/pub/ASUS/mb/socka/nforce2/a7n8x-deluxe/awdflash.zip

In any case, it looks like the user has no control any more with this
program. Either this means Asus is not updating the boot block, or
they are paying lip service to the concept of CrashFree (i.e. it is
updated every time).

Paul

I've just downloaded the latest AWDFLASH, 8.24B, and it DOES still
show the /sb switch under it's own help menu, so I presume that it IS
still enabled.
Do you know more about using it? If using it would increase the
chances of recovering from a bad flash by using CrashFree, then I'd
like to do so. If there's the slightest chance that it could
interfere with the current flash, I wouldn't. Any more help or
information?
This site,
http://www.cybertechhelp.com/html/tutorials/tutorial.php/id/65 points
out that the /sb switch may not be enabled for all boards, but the
fact that this version of awdflash.exe includes switches specific for
nVidia makes me suspect that it is applicable for the nForce
motherboards. The tutorial contains the proviso "use with caution."

Ron

 

[milleron]

My advice : contact them by e-mail, stating the type and number of
your BIOS. They usually answer rapidly. My guess is that as long
as the BIOS is the same size it will work.

As long as you disconnect your computer and proceed with care,
your board will not be damaged.

FG,
You were correct. The size of the RD1-PMC4 is the same size as the
A8N-SLI BIOS, I did not damage anything, and it DOES WORK!

The use of the included BIOS-chip extractor was not well documented,
but once I figured it out, it popped the original BIOS out almost
effortlessly. Installation was a breeze -- thirty seconds flat.

I am thrilled to finally have a computer with a working BIOS Savior
installed. I can flash new BIOS versions at will without having to
fear that I'll screw anything up.

VERY, very importantly, I could not program the BIOS Savior with
AWDFLASH.EXE, the newest version available for download at Asus, ver.
8.24, I believe. It gave a checksum error and refused to proceed.
HOWEVER, I then tried the built-in Asus EZFlash (ALT-F2 during POST),
and it copied the original BIOS file, 1004, to the BIOS Savior just
as though it was writing to the regular BIOS chip. I could then leave
the BIOS Savior set to RD1 and reboot. It's perfectly transparent. I
cannot recommend the BIOS Savior highly enough. I'll report this
success to IOSS, but it seems like they're no longer updating their
compatibility pages. I deduce that they don't care if they sell this
product any longer or else their marketing department should all be
fired en masse.

Anyway, spread the gospel. BIOS Savior RD1-PMC4 is compatible with
the A8N-SLI series.


Ron

 

[FG]

Was it a new BIOS savior. If not I wonder if the
BIOS from another card already present in the Savior
could not damage the motherboard with the switch
in the wrong position.

I wonder if there is a way of clearing it before
iunstallation.

 

[J&SB]

Say Ron,
Now that you've identified the right BIOS Savior, would you mind going
through your installation and flashing procedure step-by-step for us who
walk with trepidation when it comes to this sort of thing? Thanks in
advance. I'd really like to get one of these and rest easier.
Jim

 

[milleron]

Was it a new BIOS savior. If not I wonder if the
BIOS from another card already present in the Savior
could not damage the motherboard with the switch
in the wrong position.

I wonder if there is a way of clearing it before
iunstallation.

Mine was brand new. There doesn't seem to be any way to clear a
previously used one, but that shouldn't be necessary since you would
be overwriting the entire chip when you install it and start to use
it. You'd just be positive that you had the switch set for "ORIGINAL"
the first time you POST after installation. I rather imagine that if
the switch were accidentally left on "RD1" that the computer would
simply not POST. I can't imagine that it could damage anything.

Ron

 

[milleron]

Say Ron,
Now that you've identified the right BIOS Savior, would you mind going
through your installation and flashing procedure step-by-step for us who
walk with trepidation when it comes to this sort of thing? Thanks in
advance. I'd really like to get one of these and rest easier.
Jim

Sure.
1 -- Before I installed my motherboard, I used the neat little
BIOS-chip extractor supplied by IOSS to remove the PLCC BIOS chip.
Just like CPUs, these things go in only one way, and it's easy to tell
because one corner of the chip and socket are not square. The
instructions illustrate how to keep things in alignment.
2 -- plug the BIOS Savior into the motherboard socket vacated by the
original BIOS.
3 -- keeping the alignment in mind plug the original BIOS chip into
the identical socket on the top of the BIOS Savior. At this point,
the original chip is plugged into the Savior, and the Savior is
plugged into the mobo. There is NEVER an ELECTRICAL CONNECTION
between the EPROM in the BIOS Savior and the original BIOS chip
mounted in the BIOS Savior.
4 -- with the BIOS Savior switch set on ORG (for "original"), boot the
machine with a bootable floppy containing awdflash.exe in the drive.
5 -- run awdflash.exe and elect to save the original BIOS to the
floppy, giving it any name you wish.
6 -- flip the BIOS Savior switch to "RD1."
7 -- run awdflash again, this time telling it that you want to
reprogram the BIOS. Type in the name you gave the SAVED original
BIOS, and let it write that BIN file to the BIOS Savior's chip.

In my case, AWDFLASH gave a checksum error when trying to flash the
BIOS Savior. I had saved the original BIOS as ORIGINAL.BIN, so I set
the Savior to ORG, hit ALT-F2 during POST, and used Asus EZFlash
instead of awdflash.exe. After EZFlash was running, I set the BIOS
Savior to "RD1," and proceeded with the flash. EZFlash had no trouble
flashing the BIOS Savior. Now I have the same version of the BIOS in
both the Savior and the original chip. The data stored in CMOS is
therefore appropriate for both, and I can POST with the switch set in
either position.

After you get this far, you can leave the switch on either setting:
A -- you can leave it set on RD1. This leaves your pristine original
BIOS sitting there unused, while you run day-to-day from the BIOS
Savior's chip, keeping the original in reserve. You might even want
to remove it and put it somewhere else for safekeeping.
B -- you can set the switch back to ORG, running day-to-day from your
original BIOS, and using the BIOS Savior as a backup. If you get a
badflash, simply clear the CMOS, flip the BIOS Savior switch, and boot
from the known good backup.
C -- a development engineer could have different versions of the BIOS
in the Savior and the original chip and switch back an forth from one
boot to the next. I suspect that you'd have to clear CMOS to do that.
Not sure.
D -- you can use the BIOS Savior as a flashing device, something like
they do at badflash.com. If a friend had a messed-up BIOS, you could
extract the chip from his computer and then plug it into the BIOS
Savior. You'd then simply boot to a floppy, flip the switch, and
reflash his bad BIOS.

This really takes the fear and worry out of flash a BIOS. If it goes
bad, just flip a switch, and you're back in business.

Ron

 

[J&SB]

Thanks for the detailed run-down. I'm going to get one of these for my
A8N-SLI Deluxe. I think the price is a bargain for the peace of mind that
you get. What other boot device would support this procedure? I'm one of
those guys with a relatively new rig, and they just don't put floppies in
them any more.
Thanks,
Jim