Anyone tried both Opera 6 and Mozilla?

[John Fitzsimons]

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 10:52:51 +1000, Sumairp <> wrote:

Am yet to find a better Bookmark system than Netscape 3 used.

Cannot remember 3.0 but Firebird is much better than 4.0. When
searching for a bookmark. With 4.0 one gets one hit after the other.
With Firebird all bookmark "hits" are listed at once.

http://texturizer.net/firebird/index.html

Regards, John.

--
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v http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/

 

[Richard Steven Hack]

Same here. I used to be a faithful Opera user for a few years. It
had a few quirks up through 7.0. I migrated to Mozilla about a year
ago, and it was very good, but very slow to start, and consumed a lot
of resources. I switched to Firebird on the 0.6 release, and now 0.7
is very fast and stable.

I'm hearing a lot of good stuff about Firebird. Maybe I need to check
it out for use on Linux and Windows. Current I use Opera V7.11
although I have 7.23 available.

My main questions would be:

1) How is the speed vrs Opera? Any actual benchmarks or direct
comparisons done versus "gut" feel?

2) How is the compatibility between Windows and Linux versions of
Firebird? Are both released at the same time for both platforms?
This is one big reason I want to continue to use Opera as I'm
migrating more and more to Linux but need to keep Windows around. But
if Firebird is equally compatible on both platforms, I would consider
a switch on that basis if the other factors are acceptable.

2) Is there any real evidence that Firebird can handle more "broken"
Web sites or oddball JavaScript than Opera? I don't want to switch
and find even more bad sites than I run into in Opera (not that that
really bugs me that much, but Opera does have more problems the more
"IE-only" sites I run into).

4) Does Firebird support all of the serious features of Opera? i.e.,
certificates, etc., stuff that might be needed for a bank Web site
access, for example. And stuff you find in the Opera right-click menu
- saving link addresses from the main page OR from a frame, abaility
to save a frame as a separate Web page, etc. I use this stuff a lot
under Opera and would miss it badly if Firebird doesn't have it.
Access to sites via the site visit history and the cache is another
one I've used less frequently, but it's handy to have it. Image
saving is a major need with my babe image collection habits! Mail and
newsgroup reading I never use in my browser, so that's not important.

5) What is the incidence of bugs and crashes? Opera occasionally
crashes on me, but on restarting it offers the option to return to the
site being visited when the crash occurred or to open with the home
page or with no pages. Available in Firebird? What does the buglist
look like for Firebird (the one for Mozilla is so huge, it scares me).

 

[Glev Zarriontal]

FireBird plus Thunderbird almost equals Mozilla

I know. As Firebird is my backup browser so is Thunderbird my backup email
and news client. Thunderbird is still too unrefined, buggy, and
underdeveloped IMO to consider dumping Forte Agent as prime email and news
client at this time. That may change _if_ and _when_ Thunderbird ever
reaches 0 dot 7 dot zero or so. Both Firebird and Thunderbird development
are so slow that I dare not depend on either for prime net clients
currently. For me, that means Opera 7 and Agent.

Please do use what net ware clients you prefer best.

 

[Glev Zarriontal]

[snip]

I've used Netscape to successfully read pages that both Mozilla and
Firebird couldn't do.

I must agree. I must also state there have been a few page that Netscape 7
could not read correctly that Mozilla 1.5 could which I thought was very
strange. I may not ever install Mozilla 1.6 yet I have it should I ever
decide I wish it.

 

[Glev Zarriontal]

I'm hearing a lot of good stuff about Firebird. Maybe I need to check
it out for use on Linux and Windows. Current I use Opera V7.11
although I have 7.23 available.

My main questions would be:

1) How is the speed vrs Opera? Any actual benchmarks or direct
comparisons done versus "gut" feel?

When the two browsers both read correctly the same site, the speed
difference appears marginal. Some sites Firebird appears faster than Opera.
Some other sites it is the other way around. Most sites that I have tried
both on have too little speed difference over many visits for me to know of
any real speed difference. Both do blow Mozilla, Netscape, and M$ bloated
IE out into lunar orbit and beyond IMO.

2) How is the compatibility between Windows and Linux versions of
Firebird? Are both released at the same time for both platforms?
This is one big reason I want to continue to use Opera as I'm
migrating more and more to Linux but need to keep Windows around. But
if Firebird is equally compatible on both platforms, I would consider
a switch on that basis if the other factors are acceptable.

I know both have OS releases for Linux and Windows. Opera does have a
definite edge on non Windows OS as it supports many more. I know Opera is
released first on Windoze and then others. Firebird I am not sufficiently
familar with to say. I would guess it is the same without any guarantees.

2) Is there any real evidence that Firebird can handle more "broken"
Web sites or oddball JavaScript than Opera? I don't want to switch
and find even more bad sites than I run into in Opera (not that that
really bugs me that much, but Opera does have more problems the more
"IE-only" sites I run into).

No, Opera is more stable for "broken" net sites and oddball Java code IMO.
I hit some sites that Firebird will not read at all while Opera keeps on
going. Please note that Firebird 070 is better than Firebird 060 for page
support. I expect that should a Firebird 1 ever be released, all common WW
compliant pages will be no problem for Firebird.

As for as IE sites go, I really do not think anything will do them right
except IE which is definitely "User Beware" IMO.

4) Does Firebird support all of the serious features of Opera? i.e.,
certificates, etc., stuff that might be needed for a bank Web site
access, for example. And stuff you find in the Opera right-click menu
- saving link addresses from the main page OR from a frame, abaility
to save a frame as a separate Web page, etc. I use this stuff a lot
under Opera and would miss it badly if Firebird doesn't have it.
Access to sites via the site visit history and the cache is another
one I've used less frequently, but it's handy to have it. Image
saving is a major need with my babe image collection habits! Mail and
newsgroup reading I never use in my browser, so that's not important.

I have not seen it myself. Someone who uses Firebird more often might know
more. From my quick test, Firebird does not do most of this at this time.
That could change in next release. Also do remember many helper apps exist
for Firebird. One of those may add these abilities.

5) What is the incidence of bugs and crashes? Opera occasionally
crashes on me, but on restarting it offers the option to return to the
site being visited when the crash occurred or to open with the home
page or with no pages. Available in Firebird? What does the buglist
look like for Firebird (the one for Mozilla is so huge, it scares me).

I have not had Firebird crash that often. Usually when Opera crashes on
me, all my browsers start crashing as my drive is too fragmented. The
buglist for Firebird is close to Mozilla AFAIK. The one buglist I looked
at [01122004 ( Jan 12, 2004)] had 72 known bugs. Most others had between 3
to 12.

Firebird does offer the choice on how to start yet this must be done AFAIK
from within the program post startup. And it does not offer a "I had a
problem last time. Should I go back to where I was?" option. Firebird does
offer extensions and plug-ins that may allow Firebird to do anything Opera
can and possibly then some. If you really want to compare features and you
have the time, please take a look via what ever net browser you currently
use to these net URL's...


Firebird Extensions
http://texturizer.net/firebird/extensions/

Firebird and Mozilla plugins
http://plugindoc.mozdev.org/



HTH

 

[John]

I've been using Opera 6.04 for a while since reading about it in
this newsgroup, and like it a lot.

However, I find too many web sites do not display properly, no
doubt because they are specifically disigned for IE.

For example, today I tried to look up a phone number in England
and Opera would not display British Telecom directory enquiry
page http://www.bt.com/directory-enquiries/

I'm wondering if I would have better luck downloading and using
Mozilla, which seems to be very popular, but am reluctant to
learn another piece of software if it will not provide any clear
advantages.

I would be grateful for comment from anyone who has used both, or
from those who use Mozilla - do you often find that web pages
will not display properly, or at all, using Mozilla?

Thanks for any help

Cheers, John S

I'm using Opera 7.5 & find it perfect , displays British Telecom directory enquiry .
Built in downloader with resume .

http://my.opera.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39541

 

[Richard Steven Hack]

Both do blow Mozilla, Netscape, and M$ bloated
IE out into lunar orbit and beyond IMO.

Okay, speed may not be an issue then.

I know both have OS releases for Linux and Windows. Opera does have a
definite edge on non Windows OS as it supports many more. I know Opera is
released first on Windoze and then others. Firebird I am not sufficiently
familar with to say. I would guess it is the same without any guarantees.

Good enough probably.

No, Opera is more stable for "broken" net sites and oddball Java code IMO.
I hit some sites that Firebird will not read at all while Opera keeps on
going.

Ah, well, no advantage to Firebird there then. I had Opera 7.11 crash
a couple times today at the O'Reilly Web site of all places, so I went
ahead and installed 7.23 which also gave me an updated Java RE, so
things may be better now on that front. We'll see.

As for as IE sites go, I really do not think anything will do them right
except IE which is definitely "User Beware" IMO.

From my quick test, Firebird does not do most of this at this time.

No advantage to Firebird there then.

I have not had Firebird crash that often. Usually when Opera crashes on
me, all my browsers start crashing as my drive is too fragmented. The
buglist for Firebird is close to Mozilla AFAIK. The one buglist I looked
at [01122004 ( Jan 12, 2004)] had 72 known bugs. Most others had between 3
to 12.

No advantage to Firebird there (although I don't even know what the
Opera buglist looks like - for all I know, it might be worse.)

Firebird does
offer extensions and plug-ins that may allow Firebird to do anything Opera
can and possibly then some. If you really want to compare features and you
have the time, please take a look via what ever net browser you currently
use to these net URL's...

Firebird Extensions
http://texturizer.net/firebird/extensions/

Went here first, didn't see anything I really needed among the 142
extensions there. They did have a copy image to clipboard extension,
but the rest of them don't seem that useful to me.

Firebird and Mozilla plugins
http://plugindoc.mozdev.org/

I didn't check everything here, but didn't see a lot I could use to
replace any missing Opera functionality.

I also went to the Firebird site again and checked the latest feature
list and reread the "Why You Should Switch" document, which didn't
convince me before that it was better than Opera.

Based on this, I'm going to put Firebird on the back burner until I
see how well Opera 7.23 (and the upcoming 7.50) work or until I see
indications that Firebird is at Release 1.0 at least.

I may change my mind depending on how well Opera 7.23 works in Linux,
too.

 

[Glev Zarriontal]

On 18 Jan 2004 22:28:44 -0800, (e-mail address removed) (John) wrote:

[snip]

I'm using Opera 7.5 & find it perfect , displays British Telecom directory enquiry .
Built in downloader with resume .

http://my.opera.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39541

I had no problems with Opera 7.23 concerning that page. Now you have
answered a long standing question of mine; When is the next release coming.

Thanks

 

[Jay Jay]

I'm using Opera 7.22 with Sun Java Runtime Environment version 1.3 and
the page displays just fine. I believe the later Opera versions made
improvements. At least I've had fewer problems with page displays
since I upgraded from version 6.

Hi, I recommend installing Opera 7.23 as it has a security fix
concerning Openssl. Not updating could make you vulnerable to a DoS
attack.

That said, I'd like to say that I am a proud Opera user since 1999 and
have yet to find a better and faster browser. I could list all the
features and advantages of Opera, but you can best check it out
yourself:

http://www.opera.com/features/
http://www.opera.com/download/

 

[Scrubbs]

You might like to check out mozilla v1.6. I've got 70% resources left
with the browser and NG running, plus 7 other applications also running.
It will always start fast the second time and starts reasonably quickly
the first time (pentium 3/886 with 500 MB of memory). Each release of
mozilla is now focused on reducing its footprint and optimising code.

<snip>

 

[Ummmmmm]

(e-mail address removed) (John) wrote in

(e-mail address removed) (John S.) wrote in message


I'm using Opera 7.5 & find it perfect , displays British Telecom
directory enquiry . Built in downloader with resume .

http://my.opera.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39541

SHould point out Opera v7.5 is still essentially beta and not the final
version...

 

[Glev Zarriontal]

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:12:25 GMT, Glev Zarriontal
[snip]

No, Opera is more stable for "broken" net sites and oddball Java code IMO.
I hit some sites that Firebird will not read at all while Opera keeps on
going.

Ah, well, no advantage to Firebird there then. I had Opera 7.11 crash
a couple times today at the O'Reilly Web site of all places, so I went
ahead and installed 7.23 which also gave me an updated Java RE, so
things may be better now on that front. We'll see.

I think I had Opera 7.23 crash once on O'Reilly site. AFAIK, it was the
dang "Excessive HD fragmentation" problem yet I can not be sure.

I hope you are using Java2 1.4.2_03 as that is the most current Java I
know of.

[snip]

I have not had Firebird crash that often. Usually when Opera crashes on
me, all my browsers start crashing as my drive is too fragmented. The
buglist for Firebird is close to Mozilla AFAIK. The one buglist I looked
at [01122004 ( Jan 12, 2004)] had 72 known bugs. Most others had between 3
to 12.

No advantage to Firebird there (although I don't even know what the
Opera buglist looks like - for all I know, it might be worse.)

I visited Opera AS site just now. I used "Opera Bugs" as the search subject
and found what I think is bug listing.

The change logs might be the next best thing to bugs found. It lists them
in a "We have been notified of these problems and killed them dead!" form.
http://www.opera.com/windows/changelogs/723/

If you spend a little time looking around, I am sure you can find the
change logs for Linux based Opera.

[snip]

Firebird Extensions
http://texturizer.net/firebird/extensions/

Went here first, didn't see anything I really needed among the 142
extensions there. They did have a copy image to clipboard extension,
but the rest of them don't seem that useful to me.

I downloaded and installed over 10 of those. I guess I want my version of
Firebird to be feature filled with features that matter to me.

I didn't check everything here, but didn't see a lot I could use to
replace any missing Opera functionality.

Right, there is not much there towards that end AFAIK. The stuff that will
do that will probably be found under extensions.

I also went to the Firebird site again and checked the latest feature
list and reread the "Why You Should Switch" document, which didn't
convince me before that it was better than Opera.

I understand. Opera is still my default browser for now. Whether Firebird
1.0.0 will change that or not is not yet known.

Based on this, I'm going to put Firebird on the back burner until I
see how well Opera 7.23 (and the upcoming 7.50) work or until I see
indications that Firebird is at Release 1.0 at least.

From the brief test I gave Opera 7.50 preview, It looks potentially
interesting. I did install it into its own directory as I did not want it
mucking up my existing Opera.

I may change my mind depending on how well Opera 7.23 works in Linux,
too.

Good luck on finding the best browser for you. I see no real chance of
ever un installing both Opera and Firebird myself. One will always be my
default net browser with the other as backup. Both IMO are top notch
browser alternatives to M$ Internot Exploder and Netscape. With Mozilla
eventually going away, Firebird is the future of Gecko engine.

 

[Richard Steven Hack]

That said, I'd like to say that I am a proud Opera user since 1999 and
have yet to find a better and faster browser. I could list all the
features and advantages of Opera, but you can best check it out
yourself:

http://www.opera.com/features/
http://www.opera.com/download/

They have managed to irritate me again! I just installed 7.23
(finally - I had it sitting on my disk for months while I used 7.11) -
and now my Wells Fargo bank site won't work! It WAS working in 7.11!
The idiots have managed to step BACKWARD in compatibility!

<sigh> Nobody in the goddamn software business knows what they're
doing!

Hopefully 7.5 will restore whatever they've broken.

 

[Richard Steven Hack]

I hope you are using Java2 1.4.2_03 as that is the most current Java I
know of.

Yes, I installed the new Java RE from the Opera download. That in
itself may help.

From the brief test I gave Opera 7.50 preview, It looks potentially
interesting. I did install it into its own directory as I did not want it
mucking up my existing Opera.

Haven't tried the 7.5 beta yet. I'll probably wait until it's ready
to go since I've just installed 7.23, and I'm fixing to switch from
Windows 98 to Windows 2000 shortly anyway. Might as well hold off
installing anything new until then.

Opera 7.23 just irritated the hell out of me today - my Wells Fargo
bank site no longer works as it did in 7.11! I hope 7.5 restores
whatever they've broken. I don't think the bank changed anything as
everything looks as it did before (although of course they might have
changed something which is not visible.)

 

[TW]

I'm hearing a lot of good stuff about Firebird. Maybe I need to check
it out for use on Linux and Windows. Current I use Opera V7.11
although I have 7.23 available.

My main questions would be:

---Snip

Heck, just try them both. BookMark Bridge will import Opera bookmarks
to Mozilla/FireBird bookmarks.
http://bookmarkbridge.sourceforge.net/
e-mail modified, take the ** out to reply!

Regards, Ted

kilocycles***@***yahoo.com

 

[John S.]

I've been using Opera 6.04 for a while since reading about it in
this newsgroup, and like it a lot.

However, I find too many web sites do not display properly, no
doubt because they are specifically disigned for IE.

I would be grateful for comment from anyone who has used both, or
from those who use Mozilla - do you often find that web pages
will not display properly, or at all, using Mozilla?

Many thanks to all those who commented.

Many different opinions and experiences.
Guess I will just have to experiment and find out what suits me.

Cheers,

John S

 

[Richard Steven Hack]

Oh, and I was entirely wrong about Opera V7.23 not working with my
bank site. It appears I had it set to reject cookies except those
from the server itself (i.e., no third party cookies), and apparently
that's why it didn't work. Someone brought it to my attention that
7.23 worked perfectly well with my bank's site and that I should check
the cookie control, and I did so, and discovered the problem.

Not that I like third-party cookies, but I can live with that to be
able to access my bank with Opera.

And I like 7.23's tab interface and I've noticed it seems to be
somewhat faster than 7.11.

Mozilla's gonna have to ramp up some more before I dump Opera for it.