Anti-Piracy issues

[Michael D. Alligood]

Tiger,
The bottomline to all of this is that you computer tech should have
given you the CD, and affixed the COA on your pc with your purchase --
period. I install/upgrade client computers all the time. I have always
performed the above tasks. Now the interesting part about this whole piracy
policy and product key jazz it this: When my clients OS or hard drive
crashes and they need to reinstall, technically their product key is still
in use. Meaning that if they purchased a retail version and they reinstall
the software, the product key wizard will come back and say "Sorry, your
product key has already been activated, please contact Microsoft. This
window also gives you a long product key string. When you call MS, you are
greeted by an automated system that instructs you to enter that product
string key. Then the system will give you a new key for activation. This
happens about 3x a week for me. I am not sure how the automated system
determines if what you are doing is legit or not. Normally the OEM systems I
run across have the number built into the system (i.e. you do not encounter
a system activation screen). I am sorry for the time you have had to waste
concerning this issue. As my grandfather would say, "Now you know..." The
problem I have with you computer guy is that he has placed a bad taste in
your mouth -- thus giving a bad opinion for others like me who do honest
work. I am not sure how much more time you want to put into this matter, but
I will help in any way I can to get you back up and running legally. Just
let me know...

--
Best of luck!

Michael D. Alligood
MCSA, MCP, CCNA, A+,
Network+, i-Net+, CIW A, CIW CI

 

[Al]

Tiger,
The bottomline to all of this is that you computer tech should have
given you the CD, and affixed the COA on your pc with your purchase --
period.

They do n ot have tom provide a CD, you are wrong here. they have to provide the COA, and simply a means to be able to reinstall the OS as originally configured. this can be done with an image stored on a section of the hard drive, that is not accessible through conventional means through Windows.

<snipped>

By the way, there are no full stops on paragraphs, use them!

 

[Michael D. Alligood]

My point, Al, is that it is bad business. So if you want to buy my car, do I
just give you the title and not the car. It makes comsumers dependant on the
sellers. If she would have had a CD, she could have reinstalled XP on her
own and MS would have re-registered her product key due to hardware failure
(which was her original issue with her old PC)

--
Best of luck!

Michael D. Alligood
MCSA, MCP, CCNA, A+,
Network+, i-Net+, CIW A, CIW CI

Tiger,
The bottomline to all of this is that you computer tech should have
given you the CD, and affixed the COA on your pc with your purchase --
period.

They do n ot have tom provide a CD, you are wrong here. they have to provide
the COA, and simply a means to be able to reinstall the OS as originally
configured. this can be done with an image stored on a section of the hard
drive, that is not accessible through conventional means through Windows.

<snipped>

By the way, there are no full stops on paragraphs, use them!

 

[Gene K]

They do n ot have tom provide a CD, you are wrong here. they have to
provide the COA, and simply a means to be able to reinstall the OS as
originally configured. this can be done with an image stored on a
section of the hard drive, that is not accessible through
conventional means through Windows.

<snipped>

By the way, there are no full stops on paragraphs, use them!

Al,
I have been told by several that HP does not provide a system CD with their
computers (I guess Compaq too) but rather provides a recovery system image
on the Hard Drive with instructions to the purchaser as to how to create a
CD from that image. True anyone?
I think your post confirms basically what I said in my previous reply on
this thread. That was: "Does anyone [perhaps excluding Microsoft lawyers]
really know what is contained in all those OEM contracts with many separate
vendors".

 

[Mistoffolees]

They do n ot have tom provide a CD, you are wrong here. they have to provide the COA, and simply a means to be able to reinstall the OS as originally configured. this can be done with an image stored on a section of the hard drive, that is not accessible through conventional means through Windows.

<snipped>

But what is exactly this person? Is he a small-business
(i.e., Mom and Pop) OEM? Or an OEM-VAR? Perhaps a IT who
works for an organization but simply assembles computers
and installes OS's on the side? Different venues have
different distribution/resales agreements, when applicable,
with Microsoft. Without more definitive information from
the OP, Tiger, one can only speculate on her situation.

 

[Al]

Who gives a rats âss Mike. I didn't discuss what is bad business or not. you made a blanket statement regarding that the installation CDs *should be given* with systems, I pointed out that they are not required to provide it, if another means of reinstalling the OS is available.

Your car anaolgy sucks as an example. By the way, you're on your way to being an MVP LOL!

 

[Michael D. Alligood]

Al, apologizes for offending you in any way. You are correct in that there
are other ways to reinstall the OS (hp has a feature in reinstall the os in
the start menu). However, I have never ran across a company who has not
offered some sort of OS or reinstall cd. That has just been my experience.
Thanks for your posts. I try to do a better job with those analogies.

--
Best of luck!

Michael D. Alligood
MCSA, MCP, CCNA, A+,
Network+, i-Net+, CIW A, CIW CI


Who gives a rats âss Mike. I didn't discuss what is bad business or not. you
made a blanket statement regarding that the installation CDs *should be
given* with systems, I pointed out that they are not required to provide it,
if another means of reinstalling the OS is available.

Your car anaolgy sucks as an example. By the way, you're on your way to
being an MVP LOL!

 

[JAX]

Michael,

The OEM, as in, computer manufacturer, is required to offer a means to
restore the OS to " as purchased" condition. Anything they may offer as a
"package" is a different story, it depends on what the consumer agreed to. A
system restore can be either, a custom restore disk, a partition on the HD,
or an MS OEM disk. Good luck on your recognition as an MVP.

JAX

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Al;
Where was this question asked and evaded?
I think it is more like you did not like my answer?
I did state something to the effect of you do not need to know the
details of the communications between MVPs.
Or are you suggesting an MVP MUST publicly point out the specific
error of another MVP?
If so, it will rarely happen to your satisfaction.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


Now, without trying to sound like a dick, are you going to not
disagree with them because they are MVPs as you are. Jupiter wouldn't
when I called him for that, and asked whether being right was right,
or being an MVP meant never getting it right because peers don't
correct peers? Of course he evaded that question.

 

[Michael D. Alligood]

Understood and good points. The only time I have seen where an OEM has not
issued some sort of restore cd is on an HP. The restore feature was located
in the START MENU and was an executable. However, this did not help one of
my clients because her computer would not boot into windows! So, she had to
call me out and I was able to navigate through dos and execute the restore
that way. But I digress... I would feel cheated if I purchased a PC without
a recovery disc. Thanks for the kind remarks!

--
Best of luck!

Michael D. Alligood
MCSA, MCP, CCNA, A+,
Network+, i-Net+, CIW A, CIW CI

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Michael;
As I see it there are two major drawbacks to the partition restore
without furnishing a CD.
1. What happens when the hard drive fails out of warranty?
2. Most buyers of these systems have no clue of the limitations they
just bought...usually the sales staff is less than eager to point this
out.

I think HP has started including a method for the owner to burn their
own ONCE only.
At least an option for the CD, but how many actually do it?
As opposed to wish they had when it is to late?

 

[Michael D. Alligood]

Indeed Jupiter. I do not like partition restores -- due to the points
already state by your last post.. Thanks

--
Best of luck!

Michael D. Alligood
MCSA, MCP, CCNA, A+,
Network+, i-Net+, CIW A, CIW CI

 

[JAX]

Hi Jupiter,

A friend bought an IBM, around a year ago. All it offered was a restore
partition. He even had Works as part of the package. He got the disks for
Works, but somewhere along the way, the key for works was not included. I
guess he got the works allright. I was very surprised at that. There is no
way I would buy a "system", let alone one without a full MS OS disk.

FWIW, JAX

 

[tiger]

My husband and I have determined after re-reading every
post on this thread, as well as my other posts, that there
seems to be a gray area around OEM dealers. We also sense
some confusion around the recovery solutions media
requirements. In my case, my guy gave me a burned CD with
a full, OEM version of XP Pro. He told me that this is my
recovery disk should I need it. So I'm still wondering,
has he fulfilled his end of the OEM licence agreement as
the site basically states that pc manufacturers must
provide a way to customers to recover their systems if
need be? Of course I would love to get into the system
builder website, but I don't qualify to do this. Someone
posted a link earlier in which they said that the system
builder website says that OEM dealers may not burn CDs,
but others have said otherwise.

Again, I feel that Microsoft's website for customers is
lacking in specifics and is quite confusing to me and I'm
sure many others - and I'm an English teacher for goodness
sakes! This is also evidenced by all of the contrary
replies that I have received to all of my posts over the
past few days. At this point, my husband doesn't want us
to waste anymore time on it since our COA seems to be
valid (although I took the How to Tell quiz tonight and it
says that my type of COA sticker seems to be from 2001-
2002, I'm not sure what that means either!). He doesn't
want to accuse our computer guy of something that we don't
have proof on 100% - and my spinning head tells me that
this is a good idea!

Thanks for all replies, Tiger

 

[TheCrewser]

http://www.directdeals.com/category_windows_xp_home.aspx

Take a look at this site and you will see that there really isn't a
significent price difference between purchasing an OEM license (COA)
and purchasing an OEM license and disk. Since you purchased a
complete system from this individual, he is legally able to install an
OEM version of XP...provided he assumes the support responsibility.
As you can see, he made a few extra bucks profit by purchasing only a
license for your system and providing the burned disk.

Bottom line is that you entered into the transaction in good
faith...your system does have a COA, so it is a legal install...and
you do have some sort of media to reinstall if necessary. You
obviously don't trust this individual any longer, so I recommed you
find another technician and don't worry about it any longer. If it
makes you feel better, call Microsoft. But don't be surprised when
they don't send a SWAT team and a pack of lawyers after him tomorrow.


Good Luck...
GLCrews,MCP

 

[JAX]

Hi Tiger,

I suppose, for your purposes, he may have met his obligation. The way he did
it would probably be an issue between him and MS, so long as he is taking
care of his warrantee service with you. Since you said the COA seemed to
check out legitimate, I think, in your case, I would just go on about life
and let it be.

In one of your posts, as best I recall, you are thinking about getting
another license for another machine. Well, if the price is right, why not.
There is no way you would ever be held responsible for any of his misdoings,
if there are any. You have contacted MS and questioned the credibility of
the dealer. The rest is up to them. If he ever fails to live up to his
agreement with you, FRY him.

For now, kiss the baby good night and then have a good one yourself.

The best to you,
JAX

My husband and I have determined after re-reading every
post on this thread, as well as my other posts, that there
seems to be a gray area around OEM dealers. We also sense
some confusion around the recovery solutions media

<snip>

 

[Al]

Of course it rarely will happen, but your mentally masturbated comment "to my satisfaction" is not anything to do with how I want it to be. Actually, I could care less if he (or any other MVP for that matter) isn't corrected. Bit in not doing so, shows a lack of commitment as a whole on your part as an MVP, if that is your stance. I would think MVPs would want proper information and correct help to be given, if that means making corrections.

There are only a few MVPs here that will make those correction when they spot it, you obviously are not one of them

Al;
Where was this question asked and evaded?

I am not going back to point it out because you didn't read comprehensively, you find it!

I think it is more like you did not like my answer?

Not at all, you went off on some tangent about "context' whilst I tried to keep it where I originally called my original point to the groups attention. There's a difference between relaying perceived context, and evading the question(s). Of course it's an easy cop-out to say I didn't like your answer, when I didn't say I didn't like it. Saying things that have no following to the previous, is a poor tactic for argumentation.

I did state something to the effect of you do not need to know the
details of the communications between MVPs.

And I stated that though that happens in private, which is fine, what I pointed out must mean that even behind the scenes, nothing gets corrected, hence the continuance of Carey's follies. Did you not understand that the first time, or do you require repeated words or context (as I just did) of the same effect to get it right?

Or are you suggesting an MVP MUST publicly point out the specific
error of another MVP?

No, are you that frickin' thick Jupiter??? I said that no peer corrects the mistake by him (you'll see plenty of non-MVPs make corrections tho), not that you all need to spank, or admonish Carey publicly. I simply said that when he gives bad info, none (well, a few will) of you correct it!! Sheesh! But if he does make a mistake, you should correct the info. Not doing so, makes the quality advice bad advice. Again, do you not say anything or make corrections just because he is an MVP? If he happens to be part of thread correction, then he learns something, not saying anything, can screw the one looking for help. How many ways do you need for me to explain this to you?

If so, it will rarely happen to your satisfaction.

Again, this is your ego, I am not looking for satisfaction, but standards for correct info, when you learn to stop supporting wrong as right because of the mistake(s) of a peer, then maybe you'll also do the right thing.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Good bye Al.
I stopped reading after a few uncalled for insults.
Your credability is shot.
If you like to converse intelligently, you should do it.
If all you desure is to insult and show a reflection of yourself, do
that also.

I am through with you.
Post back to have the last word and satisify your ego, because that is
all you get from another post.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


Of course it rarely will happen, but your mentally masturbated comment
"to my satisfaction" is not anything to do with how I want it to be.
Actually, I could care less if he (or any other MVP for that matter)
isn't corrected. Bit in not doing so, shows a lack of commitment as a
whole on your part as an MVP, if that is your stance. I would think
MVPs would want proper information and correct help to be given, if
that means making corrections.

There are only a few MVPs here that will make those correction when
they spot it, you obviously are not one of them
the right thing.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Tiger;
I am still convinced something is wrong with that seller.
But as I suggested in an earlier post if the Product Key and CD work,
all is probably OK with you.
At the very least do what you can to verify with Microsoft the
Certificate of Authenticity with Product Key is genuine, valid and
usable.

 

[XS11E]

I have been told by several that HP does not provide a system CD
with their computers (I guess Compaq too) but rather provides a
recovery system image on the Hard Drive with instructions to the
purchaser as to how to create a CD from that image. True anyone?

Er... I can give you a definite "maybe" and tell you from my own
experience what HP provides with a desktop and what HP provides with a
laptop are two different things. Desktops usually provide what you've
described, my HP laptop came with three recovery CDs and no image on
the harddrive, it also came with an XP Home CD so I've the choice of
putting the critter back as it was the day I got it with all the
included software, or partitioning, formatting, and installing only
Windows XP.