American carnage

[Rush]

America`s deadliest shooting incident in history...

When will all this crap stop......for our Childrens sake...

Bloodbath

 

[V_R]

When will all this crap stop.....

When America stops giving anyone a gun.

 

[muckshifter]

When America stops giving anyone a gun.

... well, almost, but I don't think they hand out guns to you getting off the boat.

Sorry to say, there are nutters all over the World, some even run their country.

 

[floppybootstomp]

They always argue about 'The right to bear arms' don't they?

It does happen here sometimes but not nearly as frequently as in The States.

Texas has the slackest gun laws in the USA, it also has the highest incidence of fatal shootings..... work it out for yourself.

I'm comfortable with the UK gun laws.

I'm also maybe odd in that I don't get off on guns.

Ok, they're quite fun, have done some clay pigeon shooting, I've shot a few rabbits, but I could easily live without them.

Any geezer who gets over-excited over a shooter is a little suspect in my opinion.

And, of course, all the above is just my opinion, no more, no less.

 

[Spezi]

I tend to agree with flops.

I lived in the southwestern US for a few years and the mentality regarding weapons is definitely unhealthy.

After witnessing Americans driving down the open highway whilst shooting at wildlife out the automobile window and a couple of other eye opening incidents I decided to move bank to Canada right smartly.

I've not regretted that decision.

 

[michael 118]

Texas has the slackest gun laws in the USA, it also has the highest incidence of fatal shootings..... work it out for yourself.

The report on bbc about 5 minutes ago said Virginia had the slackest gun laws... Either way floppy, you'll get shot in whatever state you enter...

Im just wondering when they'll start blaming it on computer games again..

 

[Abarbarian]

Terrible tradgedy .

 

[Anon_F]

Click HERE

 

[Anon_F]

I should have added from my last post i dont think this will change the gun law's in the USA!

 

[historian]

Hello.

The tragic thing about this mass killing is that it could have been so different.
The second amendment to the constitution states in part,"the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" But there is a vital piece that is always left out,just before the last statement.And it is that those bearing arms should be within "a well regulated militia" That to me reads either a home guard or a standing army,not the general population.In fact I believe that when the newly independant United States won it`s war of independence,it was so against standing armies it disbanded it`s militias and sent tham back to their homes and fields.
The gun lobby in the USA is so powerful,that even after this tragedy,nothing will change.The politicians would be rather voted back in over the corpses of their young. Shameful.
historian

 

[bigOz]

Agreeing with all that, I'd like to add; as always the commercial and financial gains take precedence over any human life - more so in America where many politicians and senators are obliged to look after associates involved in the manufacture of guns.

While everyone is arguing endlessly about the reasons behind and credibility of the Iraqi war, it is blatantly obvious what purpose it is serving: It is a machine fo converting Iraqi oil into cash profits for arms manufacturers/suppliers in U.S.! The equation may be a little more complicated than that but the general purpose is same as above.

The sole pupose of producing arms is to use them to kill others, so expecting the supporters of this evil trade ban their use would be very optimistic.

 

[floppybootstomp]

The sole pupose of producing arms is to use them to kill others, so expecting the supporters of this evil trade ban their use would be very optimistic.

Sorry, but would have to disagree with you there.

In my view there are several reasons for manufacturing arms and I would say the primary reason is one of defence.

As much as I loath firearms being readily available in the States, am not fond of war and despair at mankind's behaviour, guns are a neccessary part of our armed forces' requirements.

If an invading force marched ashore at Dover intent on domination, what would we repel them with? Catapults?

Ok, that's a loose point of view and I know the whole arms trade/oil trade/corruption/manipulation/religious fervour debacle is a whole lot more complicated.

But I do think we as a Nation need to be armed so would argue a weapon's main purpose is defence.

 

[Anon_F]

Buying a gun in the US is easier than getting a driving licence.
And the amount of different Guns on offer is varied from hand guns, small carbines to semi & fully automatic weapons.
Also the different ammo that can be used is also varied.
This recent tragic event will do nothing to stop one of the largest industries in the US from growing!

 

[itsme]

It just gets worse and worse! wherever you live, it makes me sick that no one in authority ever seems to see further than the tip of their nose until it is to damn late to do anything the signs where there before this tragedy happened, and then an inquiry into what ever has happened, but it just happens again and again.Why I ask myself?

 

[michael 118]

In my view there are several reasons for manufacturing arms and I would say the primary reason is one of defence.
But I do think we as a Nation need to be armed so would argue a weapon's main purpose is defence.

Defending from who floppy? Defending yourself with guns from other people 'defending themselves' with guns?...

I dunno,

Ideally all weaponary should be destroyed... but that aint ever gonna happen..

 

[floppybootstomp]

Defending from who floppy? Defending yourself with guns from other people 'defending themselves' with guns?...

I dunno,

Ideally all weaponary should be destroyed... but that aint ever gonna happen..

Did 9/11 and 7/7 teach you nothing?

There are people out there that want to destroy us, our whole culture.

I was 16 years old in the original summer of love in 1967. Then, I thought everybody should be peaceful and everybody should disarm.

Unfortunately, if we did that, we'd be ruled, dead or be gassed in a chamber like at Auschwitz.

And that is what saddens me about human nature.

Just look at the upheavals in Eastern Europe in the last decade, mass burial sites found in Kosovo and the like.

There's a very fine line between civilised and animal with human beings.

I am totally against guns being allowed for the civillian population.

I am totally for a democratically elected goverment and a good defence program, which means our troops are armed.

The day a group of pacifists meets a hostile group intent on taking them over, they're dead meat.

Why oh why do you think this nation has enjoyed relative peace for the last sixty years?

I'll tell you why, it's all the blood splilt in the 1940's and the rows of mute white gravestones in French Military cemeteries. And Tunisia and Poland and Burma and countless other sites of conflict. Never again, please.

Never forget. Would you fight? Now? If Hitler or somebody like him was on the move again? Well would you?

Or would you just lie down and stick a flower in your enemy's gun barrel?

Again, we need defence. Again, America, in my opinion, has a sickness with it's gun laws.

Being a paciifist, being a peacenik, doesn't work, for no matter how well intentioned you and I are, there's always some nasty git out there wanna own you. Fact.

 

[cirianz]

Have to agree with Flops on this one.
Furthermore, I have to say that, while the second amendment grants American citizens the right to bear arms... I can't see that it says in there anywhere that it should easy to procure the things.
Over here any civilian can get a gun license to own a shotgun or hunting rifle or the like...
but ain't no one making it easy.
AND,if you want to get a license to own a handgun (a seperate license from that to own a hunting rifle) then you bloody better be able to prove that you have a damn good reason for doing so.
Even our regular police don't carry the things.
& I wouldn't want them to.
But i would never be so stupid as to disarm the 'Armed offenders squad'
& while I might think it would be wonderful if we didn't need an army/airforce/navy
& wouldn't it be wonderful if we could spend that money instead on schools etc
The fact is we do not live in such an idealistic world
There will always be the greedy.
And many of the people in power got there because that fueled them.
And,
There will always be fanatics, like Hitler
& you cannot buy off a fanatic with money & trade agreements.
& when a fanatic gets power, people die.
& when a fanatic gets evangelical, whatever their ideology, lots of people die.
Whether we like it or not,
a standing army is essential.
And without one we are nothing more than easy pickings.
Furthermore,
wether I like the reality or not.
it is only because someone is prepared to die to protect it,
That the Pacifists have the right to cry out for everyone to lay down their arms & cuddle up in some cosy group hug.
I wish we lived in a world based on tolerance & acceptance.
but we don't.
In fact, the really impressive thing is that such a competitive & tribal species as our own
does manage to co-exist as much as we do.

 

[bigOz]

I think the whole issue is now being taken out of context in this thread! We are not arguing about an incident at a military camp. Neither are we talking about the powereful nations who are well armed, taking it upon themselves to exterminate a specific culture, leader, or belief. These are subjects that can be argued forever without all agreeing on the same point of view...

The issue here is, is it really justified or necessary for people at large in a society to have access to arms?

I disagree with the American view in favour of the above. It is blatantly evident in every society in the world that, where there are guns readily available, there is more crime and more deaths by guns. It is the general tendency in UK to mimic their U.S. cousins, and a barrage of violence orientated movies from U.S., combined with the British Police's envy desire to be like Stasky and Hutch or Dirty Harry that has been causing the rising gun culture (+deaths) in UK over the past two decades!

I loved England during the 1970's and early 80's when the police were visible in the streets, patrolling on foot with nothing but a truncheon! Except the occasional armed robberies (some of which were actually carried out with imitation firearms) gun crime was a small fraction of what is going on today.

One would not need to defend themselves with a gun, if they knew their potential rivals would not be carrying them either, and vice-versa. Who is to stop a young man with a weak psychology watching "scarface" and deciding to act like the hero in the movie?

If I am not mistaken, there was something about this latest shooting last night on BBC, saying the guy was influenced or was copying something that happened in a movie but I've not managed to read or find out more about it. I'd be happy to hear if anyone lese has heard of anything on this subject.

 

[Rush]

by bigOz

If I am not mistaken, there was something about this latest shooting last night on BBC, saying the guy was influenced or was copying something that happened in a movie but I've not managed to read or find out more about it. I'd be happy to hear if anyone lese has heard of anything on this subject.

The film was called oldboy.

More facts emerge by the day ...

Cho was held in a mental health unit after 2 women students complained about his behaviour in 2005.
University Police chief Wendell Flinchum said officers spoke to Cho in Nov/Dec 05 following complaints of low level harassment.
After the second complaint, Cho`s parent were concerned that he may be suicidal and he was taken to a Psychiatric hospital.
The District Court of Virginia issued an order declaring that Cho had been examined by medical experts.
It was determined that he was mentally ill and that he was `an imminent danger to himself and others`.
The revelation exposes a serious flaw in the gun laws in Virginia because despite his mental health record he was able to buy a gun with only the most minimal checks. He must have lied when he ticked a box to indicate he had no mental health problems.

Cho wrote poems and plays ...2 of them being called Mr Brownstone and another Richard McBeef. In the latter a boy accusses his stepfather, called Richard McBeef of killing his father. It ends with this stage direction:` Out of sheer desecrated hurt and anger, Richard lifts his large arms and swings a deadly blow at the 13 year-old boy.`

His English teacher on numerous occasions voiced concerns with his behaviour , she had a code with guards that if she mentioned a certain person, this would be the sign of danger. " He would just sit there with a baseball cap covering his head wearing sunglasses...he looked like he was crying beneath them " she said.

more here

 

[michael 118]

Did 9/11 and 7/7 teach you nothing?

There are people out there that want to destroy us, our whole culture.

I was 16 years old in the original summer of love in 1967. Then, I thought everybody should be peaceful and everybody should disarm.

Unfortunately, if we did that, we'd be ruled, dead or be gassed in a chamber like at Auschwitz.

And that is what saddens me about human nature.

Just look at the upheavals in Eastern Europe in the last decade, mass burial sites found in Kosovo and the like.

There's a very fine line between civilised and animal with human beings.

I am totally against guns being allowed for the civillian population.

I am totally for a democratically elected goverment and a good defence program, which means our troops are armed.

The day a group of pacifists meets a hostile group intent on taking them over, they're dead meat.

Why oh why do you think this nation has enjoyed relative peace for the last sixty years?

I'll tell you why, it's all the blood splilt in the 1940's and the rows of mute white gravestones in French Military cemeteries. And Tunisia and Poland and Burma and countless other sites of conflict. Never again, please.

Never forget. Would you fight? Now? If Hitler or somebody like him was on the move again? Well would you?

Or would you just lie down and stick a flower in your enemy's gun barrel?

Again, we need defence. Again, America, in my opinion, has a sickness with it's gun laws.

Being a paciifist, being a peacenik, doesn't work, for no matter how well intentioned you and I are, there's always some nasty git out there wanna own you. Fact.

Agreed Floppy.

But...

Hard to accept the nasty truth

and i dont think we (as in USA + UK) are entirely 'innocent'... Whats more important though? Blame game, or understanding and reasoning with 'them'.

Why cant it be easy?

Edit: I actually (probably nievly, but that aint my fault ) think this is all a case of sibling rivalry. If we disarm and cease hostilities Genuinly, then so will they... Hard not to sound idealist, but there we go