Ace, Kevin and other MVPs

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

MF> As with any other Usenet provider, the posts get listed by
MF> posted thread date by default, then by posted responses in
MF> a thread by date.

Actually, there is no ordering of the posts on Usenet _whatsoever_. (The
articles aren't in the same order on different news spools because of flood
fill, for starters.) The ordering is imposed entirely locally, and is at the
whim of one's chosen NUA.

Which is why it's always silly when someone says that they are trying "to get
this thread moved to the top". The first thought is "What 'top' is that,
then?". There is no "top". Different people will see threads in different
orders, and there's no way for posters to change the order in which readers
will choose to view things.

MF> Microsoft does delete them after a 3 month period, (previously
MF> 6 months) [...]

Microsoft may delete the posts _off its own_ news servers at that time, but
again (as with ordering) there is no worldwide deletion policy for Usenet.
Other news servers may have different retention period lengths. (Indeed,
Google keeps articles indefinitely.)

 

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

L> But since you're getting free help in here, it's
L> probably best not to look a gift horse in the mouth. ;-)

e> Free help is and should be only a portion of a newsgroup
e> like this, [...]

Free help is the overwhelming majority of this newsgroup.

 

[William Stacey [MVP]]

Top posting is rude and does not follow the norm when it comes to

following a discussion.

That is your opinion and many share it. I do not think so. Cobol was the
norm 10 years ago. Most people don't know what Cobol is any longer. Things
change. We don't have to hold onto legacy things just because that is the
way it has always been. If we did, we would not have any innovation. We
can agree to disagree, that is ok too. Does not make either of us right or
wrong. This is a personal preference.

 

[Herb Martin]

That is your opinion and many share it. I do not think so. Cobol was the
norm 10 years ago. Most people don't know what Cobol is any longer. Things
change. We don't have to hold onto legacy things just because that is the
way it has always been. If we did, we would not have any innovation. We
can agree to disagree, that is ok too. Does not make either of us right or
wrong. This is a personal preference.

Agreed -- the "it's rude" comment by the previous poster
is the same kind of simplistic thinking that ignores context
and says things like "it's rude to pick up your food with your
hands".

Sometimes it is; sometimes it is not. Sometimes it depends
on the food; sometimes it depends on the location (e.g., picnic,
camping); and sometimes it depends on the CULTURE where
you are eating.

It's is rude however for such to blindly claim others are rude
because when they don't share the same prejudices.

 

[Ace Fekay [MVP]]

In

Agreed -- the "it's rude" comment by the previous poster
is the same kind of simplistic thinking that ignores context
and says things like "it's rude to pick up your food with your
hands".

Sometimes it is; sometimes it is not. Sometimes it depends
on the food; sometimes it depends on the location (e.g., picnic,
camping); and sometimes it depends on the CULTURE where
you are eating.

It's is rude however for such to blindly claim others are rude
because when they don't share the same prejudices.

Agreed...Klingons, chicken fingers, etc, but not spaghetti !

--
Regards,
Ace

Please direct all replies to the newsgroup so all can benefit.
This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties and confers no
rights.

Ace Fekay, MCSE 2000, MCSE+I, MCSA, MCT, MVP
Microsoft Windows MVP - Active Directory

 

[William Stacey [MVP]]

Well maybe just the meatballs

 

[Ace Fekay [MVP]]

Well maybe just the meatballs

LOL !

 

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

L> Top posting is rude and does not follow the norm when
L> it comes to following a discussion.

The norm that top-posting actually does not follow is the norm for the
direction of writing, including the writing of conversations, in most written
languages.

L> Top posting is just plain lazy.

No, it isn't. It's just as "lazy" to always add text before the quoted
message because one's NUA places the cursor there initially as it is to always
add text after the quoted message because one's NUA places the cursor there
initially. This brings me to the next point:

L> Not snipping the part you are not directly replying to is
L> also rude, wastes space, and is lazy.

It's important to realise that there are two separate things here: where the
new text is added in relation to the quoted text, and how much of the message
being replied to is quoted. It's _not trimming quoted text_ that is in fact
what is lazy. This has nothing to do with where, relative to that text, the
new text is added. Lazy lack of editing is frequently exemplified _both_ by
top-posters (who add their 1-line replies to 100-line messages at the top)
_and_ by bottom-posters (who add their 1-line replies to 100-line messages at
the bottom). In fact, the only class of people who don't generally exhibit
this behaviour are the inline-posters. I suspect that this is because they
are more used to the concept of actually editing the quoted text because it is
a routine part of how they reply anyway.

This is an old discussion, of course.

<URL:http://netmeister.org./news/learn2quote2.html>

 

[William Stacey [MVP]]

besides I've noticed many mistakes in the

MVP's posts also.

No one is perfect or even close. If you notice a mistake, make a reply
right then to correct someone. That also gives them a chance to correct you
if your correction was in error (that happens.)

For a mature newsgroup of a mature
product, it should be a place people come to share ideas,
to get assurance, to do brainstorm, to learn from each
other, etc.

That is what we do here. What do you think goes on here?

I feel most time People, or something to that effect,
will be a better choice to use, in case not particularly
context related.

??

Please feel free to post some questions. I and others will help if we can.
(there is that "we" again...)

 

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

e> I feel most time People, or something to that effect,
e> will be a better choice to use, in case not particularly
e> context related.

WS> ??

He's saying that we should use "people" instead of "we".

 

[Ace Fekay [MVP]]

In

Agree with you, and I'm doing it right now!

On the other hand, if a person interested in, he must
have followed the line closely and just wanted to know
what you have to say -- "top posting" will serve this the
best.

If you just have something to say, use the top-posting;
while give detailed comments on a complicated issue, may
choose the inline-posting...


Free help is and should be only a portion of a newsgroup
like this, besides I've noticed many mistakes in the
MVP's posts also. For a mature newsgroup of a mature
product, it should be a place people come to share ideas,
to get assurance, to do brainstorm, to learn from each
other, etc.

<snip>

Eurodude, This is a FREE newsgroup. I don't understand what you mean by
"PORTION of this newsgroup"?? This is all a free newsgroup. Are you saying
that people should pay for help here? Creation of these newsgroups weren't
meant for that reason. It's not meant to be a "portion" of the newsgroup,
but rather the WHOLE thing, hence why Microsoft created these newsgroups,
for their products specifically and not really otherwise. It's a free help
forum for their products, just as Macromedia, Adobe, Novell, and other
companies have created for THEIR products. Make sense?

And yes, we learn from each other, share ideas and brainstorm together based
on the specific newsgroup topic, or if not newsgroup topic related, we'll
probably gladly point them in the right direction to get the proper help
they need. BUT IT"S ALL FREE. Not a portion, but the WHOLE thing.

Also curious, what mistakes have you found? Show us some examples. Just
mentioning that doesn't really mean anything unless you give examples so we
can all discuss the validity of that statement. Please do explain your
reasoning or deduction why you feel they are in error and we can all
collaborate and understand together on your findings and feelings. That's
why we're here. Let's discuss them, please, after all if you keep anything
back, no one will learn from that, agreed?

--
Regards,
Ace

Please direct all replies to the newsgroup so all can benefit.
This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties and confers no
rights.

Ace Fekay, MCSE 2000, MCSE+I, MCSA, MCT, MVP
Microsoft Windows MVP - Active Directory

 

[Ace Fekay [MVP]]

In

e> I feel most time People, or something to that effect,
e> will be a better choice to use, in case not particularly
e> context related.


He's saying that we should use "people" instead of "we".

But we's are the peoples of these newsgroups....... but would rather use the
proper context and syntax related "we".

or as my 15 year old daughter would say...

We's are the peeps here, gothima or not...

--
Regards,
Ace

Please direct all replies to the newsgroup so all can benefit.
This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties and confers no
rights.

Ace Fekay, MCSE 2000, MCSE+I, MCSA, MCT, MVP
Microsoft Windows MVP - Active Directory

 

[SeanK]

You keep over 4600 favorites... thats a lot. Any
tips/utils you used to manage so many favourites?

SeanK

 

[Ace Fekay [MVP]]

In

You keep over 4600 favorites... thats a lot. Any
tips/utils you used to manage so many favourites?

SeanK

I started using different tools for my favorites, by they wound up being
extra overhead on my machine, so I removed them. I do use Genie Soft Outlook
Express Backup to back them up and my Outlook Express newsgroups and email
and Outlook XP email accounts (I have mutliple accounts). I also back them
up just by copying the favorites folder to another location as well, just as
a backup to the backup.

I usually open up my favorites in the left pane of a browser then work with
them from there. As for copying the links, by default you can only copy the
favorite to be able to paste it elsewhere in another favorite folder. Kind
of useless to paste them into a post or some sort of text or doc file. So I
found and use this freeware tool called CopyURL by Moonsoftware
(www.moonsoftware.com). It gives you a rt-click feature on a favorite called
"Copy Name" that allows to copy the link and the name of it to allow me to
paste into a text or post, such as this (and it even puts a colon at the end
of it for you):

Freeware - Moon Software [CopyURL and others]:
http://www.moonsoftware.com/freeware.asp

Genie-Soft Downloads - Outlook Express Backup:
http://www.genie-soft.com/download.html

Another tool for OEx newsgroup control is OE_Quotefix: Tt strips signatures
out, and when you reply, it automatically goes to the bottom of the post,
changes colors of previous posts in a reply so you can distinguish who typed
what, among other things:

OE-QuoteFix:
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

Kevin also uses some of these tools as well, and you can see them listed in
his signature. He actually uses a free backup tool. I like that tool as
well, but needed more features to take care of other things and hence why I
selected to purchase Genie Soft's product.

OEHelp -Freebie Backup, OETool for a Toolbar, DBXtend, etc]:
http://www.oehelp.com/

There you have it. Hope it helps!

--
Regards,
Ace

Please direct all replies to the newsgroup so all can benefit.
This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties and confers no
rights.

Ace Fekay, MCSE 2000, MCSE+I, MCSA, MCT, MVP
Microsoft Windows MVP - Active Directory

 

[NT Canuck]

You keep over 4600 favorites... thats a lot. Any
tips/utils you used to manage so many favourites?

group them by topic, sort of the way you would for folders
or expenses/games/repairs/news/files/ etc. IE favorites can
create new folders (name as needed and make sub-folders).

you can change the name of a link/shortcut right away as
you are saving it...to one more indicative of the site content
or item you found to be of interest on that website.

you may also goto /documents and settings/login name/favorites
and move them around (or back them up) just like a normal
folder of files (except these are links or "shortcuts").

if your memory is better served in a timeline...
I keep downloaded files stored by months...
jan04 feb04 etc. and as I get a chance to test the files
and decide what to install/keep/backup then I move the
files into larger folders data04 install03 test02 and backup
to cd's. The same could be done with links and favorites.
This also helps since a newly installed OS can be loaded
with all your needed links (just drop a backuped up favorites
folder in doc and settings (overwrite) and you are good to go. ;-)

a free tool for searching into favorites that I like (ties into ie bar):
description and d/lhttp://www.dzsoft.com/favseek.htm

for checking if those links are still uptodate/valid..(cip500)
d/l http://www.winsite.com/bin/Info?500000007704
description http://www.radsoft.net/gallery/cip/

Let me know when you get over 2 million favorites and I'll try
and dig up the link for a 3D layered fav indexer. *g*

 

[Ace Fekay [MVP]]

In

group them by topic, sort of the way you would for folders
or expenses/games/repairs/news/files/ etc. IE favorites can
create new folders (name as needed and make sub-folders).

you can change the name of a link/shortcut right away as
you are saving it...to one more indicative of the site content
or item you found to be of interest on that website.

you may also goto /documents and settings/login name/favorites
and move them around (or back them up) just like a normal
folder of files (except these are links or "shortcuts").

if your memory is better served in a timeline...
I keep downloaded files stored by months...
jan04 feb04 etc. and as I get a chance to test the files
and decide what to install/keep/backup then I move the
files into larger folders data04 install03 test02 and backup
to cd's. The same could be done with links and favorites.
This also helps since a newly installed OS can be loaded
with all your needed links (just drop a backuped up favorites
folder in doc and settings (overwrite) and you are good to go. ;-)

a free tool for searching into favorites that I like (ties into ie
bar):
description and d/lhttp://www.dzsoft.com/favseek.htm

for checking if those links are still uptodate/valid..(cip500)
d/l http://www.winsite.com/bin/Info?500000007704
description http://www.radsoft.net/gallery/cip/

Let me know when you get over 2 million favorites and I'll try
and dig up the link for a 3D layered fav indexer. *g*

Hey, how's it going? Replied back to your email past week or so. Hope all is
ok.

I'd be interested in that 3d indexer. Be nice to give it a Z coordinate to
my fav's.

--
Regards,
Ace

Please direct all replies to the newsgroup so all can benefit.
This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties and confers no
rights.

Ace Fekay, MCSE 2000, MCSE+I, MCSA, MCT, MVP
Microsoft Windows MVP - Active Directory

 

[NT Canuck]

Hey, how's it going?

We know nothing..nothing I tell you... lol
oh wait...that's what I get! heh

Replied back to your email past week or so.

Perhaps resend...not recieved anything.

Hope all is ok.

yes, no, and maybe.... heh, what was the question again? *g*

I'd be interested in that 3d indexer.

ok, had one 2 years ago,
I will look for link and if not online anymore will check archive.

Be nice to give it a Z coordinate to my fav's.

I was try to modify it into one I was making at the time,
the one that was available is a little like a satellite map
of Earth (click on continent..then on a state...then town)
pre-grouped and settled with a few million links then add
your own or setup new zones/layers, very cool. You will
need at least 1024 screen setting (and good eyes)!. ;-)

 

[eurodude]

when I say for the tech support part should be a portion
of the functionality of this newsgroup, I meant that this
newsgroup should not become a free tech support
newsgroup, and no one should take that responsibility
either. In fact, that was not intended by MS. The most
important part of this group should be people come and
share ideas, do brainstorming, etc.

when I say there are mistakes in MVP's posts, I meant
MVPs should also keep in mind that they themself need
further improvement, and should not always single-minded
want to give free advices to others.

 

[Herb Martin]

when I say for the tech support part should be a portion
of the functionality of this newsgroup, I meant that this
newsgroup should not become a free tech support
newsgroup, and no one should take that responsibility
either. In fact, that was not intended by MS. The most
important part of this group should be people come and
share ideas, do brainstorming, etc.

The above is your opinion and like all newsgroups these
are whatever the HOST (Microsoft) and the participants
choose to make of it not necessarily your opinion even if
I think your ideas are reasonably on the right track.

when I say there are mistakes in MVP's posts, I meant
MVPs should also keep in mind that they themself need
further improvement, and should not always single-minded
want to give free advices to others.

Again, your opinion. They are actually free to do most
anything legal they wish.

My posts have changed in no significant way since I was
recently asked to become an MVP -- the Microsoft folks
just like the quality and quantity of my posts and chose
to recognize that.

I doubt if anyone except those in the program new that
my status had changed -- I didn't add it to my signature
so some people probably thought that I was always an
MVP and others didn't realize that I became one.

 

[Ace Fekay [MVP]]

In

when I say for the tech support part should be a portion
of the functionality of this newsgroup, I meant that this
newsgroup should not become a free tech support
newsgroup, and no one should take that responsibility
either. In fact, that was not intended by MS. The most
important part of this group should be people come and
share ideas, do brainstorming, etc.

Oops... bottom posting and inline posting... i know you don;'t like that,
sorry.

Euro, check out www.microsoft.com/communities:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Microsoft Technical Communities
Microsoft technical communities provide opportunities to interact with
Microsoft employees, experts, and your peers in order to share knowledge and
news about Microsoft products and related technologies.
These technical communities provide a variety of ways to get answers to
questions, solutions to problems, and share your own expertise, including:

Newsgroups
There are currently over 2,000 public newsgroups dedicated to discussing
Microsoft products. Locate the right one for asking and answering technical
questions about the Microsoft products you use. Also, be sure to learn about
reducing Spam associated with posting questions to online communities.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Believe me, no one has that responsibility. This is a good semaritan thing
on Microsoft's part to help folks who have purchased their products with
free support or alternative ideas thru collaboration on how to use their
products. So besides collaboration within these groups,among our peers, then
if this is NOT supposed to be a free tech support site, then I don't know
why Microsoft would have ever envisioned making these groups available to
the public as an alternative to calling Product Support Services and having
to get your CC ready.

Matter of fact the Microsoft engineers monitor everyone one of these posts
and will jump in to answer posts and collaborate among all of us, which
includes anyone that posts here, (MVP or not) to resolve issues. So why
would they be doing that?

Maybe you should write Microsoft and tell them they made a huge mistake and
that these groups were NOT meant for free tech support.

It's possible that you're thinking and comparing this specific vendor
community tp the other general Usenet groups available to the public, (like
the ones that you have acces to with your ISP subscription) that you have
access to 100,000+ groups out there for general topics, such as
alt.farmanimals.whatever, or alt.joleneblalock.noclothes, etc.

when I say there are mistakes in MVP's posts, I meant
MVPs should also keep in mind that they themself need
further improvement, and should not always single-minded
want to give free advices to others.

Maybe you can help us out with your single minded views. Do you think we
should tell everyone who posts here with their issues that if they have a
problem they need to call MS PSS and pay for support?

--
Regards,
Ace

Please direct all replies to the newsgroup so all can benefit.
This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties and confers no
rights.

Ace Fekay, MCSE 2000, MCSE+I, MCSA, MCT, MVP
Microsoft Windows MVP - Active Directory