Zone Alarm Pro demanding more money.

[Derrick Fawsitt]

Apologies if this post is slightly off topic but I am in need of advice
and am a user of XP Hope edition.

Having paid for the "bundle" of MailWasher Pro and Zone Alarm Pro in May
2003, (I paid $39.95) for them when I understand, (correct me), I could
have used the free version of ZA without and need to upgrade or fork out
money, (again correct me if I am wrong).
However, I thought I was a registered user of a better version of ZA
than the basic version, and with my money paid up front and a license
key I was OK. However, imagine my surprise when I started to get pop up
requests to pay for upgrading or I would not get any more up to date
information etc., I immediately uninstalled ZA and started to install
another programme which I understand is really free for the basic
version. It was only when I found my receipt for payment I thought I
must be made to give up on ZA and re-installed it again using my License
number and details etc., I had however to re-configure all my programmes
again to work with ZA and all because it started to demand money or it
would reduce the effect of my newly purchased firewall which had cost me
39.95 dollars.
Can anyone enlighten me as to what is happening, I simply won't pay out
the kind of money demanded again and will go elsewhere but I will ask
for a refund as I was not told further money would be asked of me.
I object if the only version I can use free is the basic version having
paid for the Pro version.
For now, that is the state of things but before I un-install it yet
again, can anyone enlighten me as to whether I have to relegate myself
to the basic version of ZA or install a different brand of Firewall. I
did write to ZA but have as yet got nothing back from them.
With thanks,

 

[E McCann]

Only advice I could give would be to contact Zone Labs and ask them what's
up. http://www.zonelabs.com. Coming here is like going to the car stereo
place to ask why your engine is running rough... someone might have an idea,
but....

 

[Mark Weinreb]

Apologies if this post is slightly off topic but I am in need of advice
and am a user of XP Hope edition.

Having paid for the "bundle" of MailWasher Pro and Zone Alarm Pro in May
2003, (I paid $39.95) for them when I understand, (correct me), I could
have used the free version of ZA without and need to upgrade or fork out
money, (again correct me if I am wrong).
However, I thought I was a registered user of a better version of ZA
than the basic version, and with my money paid up front and a license
key I was OK. However, imagine my surprise when I started to get pop up
requests to pay for upgrading or I would not get any more up to date
information etc., I immediately uninstalled ZA and started to install
another programme which I understand is really free for the basic
version. It was only when I found my receipt for payment I thought I
must be made to give up on ZA and re-installed it again using my License
number and details etc., I had however to re-configure all my programmes
again to work with ZA and all because it started to demand money or it
would reduce the effect of my newly purchased firewall which had cost me
39.95 dollars.
Can anyone enlighten me as to what is happening, I simply won't pay out
the kind of money demanded again and will go elsewhere but I will ask
for a refund as I was not told further money would be asked of me.
I object if the only version I can use free is the basic version having
paid for the Pro version.
For now, that is the state of things but before I un-install it yet
again, can anyone enlighten me as to whether I have to relegate myself
to the basic version of ZA or install a different brand of Firewall. I
did write to ZA but have as yet got nothing back from them.
With thanks,

Use of Zone Alarm Pro requires the payment of an annual license fee in order
to get the updates, which is clearly explained on their web site.
Since you paid your initial fee one year ago, your next fee is now due. If
you chose not to renew your license, you may continue to use your current
version without any extra expense. However, you will not be entitled to any
more upgrades/updates.
If you want to keep using your current version, without renewing your
license, I'd suggest setting the "Check for updates" option to manual on the
overview/preferences page. That should, hopefully, stop the nags.

If you want to renew your license, go to the overview/product info page and
click on renew.

 

[Ronnie Vernon MVP]

Apologies if this post is slightly off topic but I am in need of
advice and am a user of XP Hope edition.

Having paid for the "bundle" of MailWasher Pro and Zone Alarm Pro in
May 2003, (I paid $39.95) for them when I understand, (correct me), I
could have used the free version of ZA without and need to upgrade or
fork out money, (again correct me if I am wrong).
However, I thought I was a registered user of a better version of ZA
than the basic version, and with my money paid up front and a license
key I was OK. However, imagine my surprise when I started to get pop
up requests to pay for upgrading or I would not get any more up to
date information etc., I immediately uninstalled ZA and started to
install another programme which I understand is really free for the
basic version. It was only when I found my receipt for payment I
thought I must be made to give up on ZA and re-installed it again
using my License number and details etc., I had however to
re-configure all my programmes again to work with ZA and all because
it started to demand money or it would reduce the effect of my newly
purchased firewall which had cost me
39.95 dollars.
Can anyone enlighten me as to what is happening, I simply won't pay
out the kind of money demanded again and will go elsewhere but I will
ask for a refund as I was not told further money would be asked of me.
I object if the only version I can use free is the basic version
having paid for the Pro version.
For now, that is the state of things but before I un-install it yet
again, can anyone enlighten me as to whether I have to relegate myself
to the basic version of ZA or install a different brand of Firewall. I
did write to ZA but have as yet got nothing back from them.
With thanks,

ZA Pro updates has always been a subscription service, IIRC. The first yeqr
is included in the initial price. It's a good service as they are very
diligent about keeping up to date with all of the fast changing security
issues.

--
Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User

Please reply to the newsgroup so all may benefit.
http://www.dts-l.org
http://www.mvps.org

 

[Derrick Fawsitt]

Use of Zone Alarm Pro requires the payment of an annual license fee in order
to get the updates, which is clearly explained on their web site.
Since you paid your initial fee one year ago, your next fee is now due. If
you chose not to renew your license, you may continue to use your current
version without any extra expense. However, you will not be entitled to any
more upgrades/updates.
If you want to keep using your current version, without renewing your
license, I'd suggest setting the "Check for updates" option to manual on the
overview/preferences page. That should, hopefully, stop the nags.

If you want to renew your license, go to the overview/product info page and
click on renew.

Yes, that I have done and hopefully it will sort this matter out.

Regards, and thanks,

 

[*Vanguard*]

Derrick Fawsitt said in news[email protected]:

Apologies if this post is slightly off topic but I am in need of
advice and am a user of XP Hope edition.

Having paid for the "bundle" of MailWasher Pro and Zone Alarm Pro in
May 2003, (I paid $39.95) for them when I understand, (correct me), I
could have used the free version of ZA without and need to upgrade or
fork out money, (again correct me if I am wrong).
However, I thought I was a registered user of a better version of ZA
than the basic version, and with my money paid up front and a license
key I was OK. However, imagine my surprise when I started to get pop
up requests to pay for upgrading or I would not get any more up to
date information etc., I immediately uninstalled ZA and started to
install another programme which I understand is really free for the
basic version. It was only when I found my receipt for payment I
thought I must be made to give up on ZA and re-installed it again
using my License number and details etc., I had however to
re-configure all my programmes again to work with ZA and all because
it started to demand money or it would reduce the effect of my newly
purchased firewall which had cost me
39.95 dollars.
Can anyone enlighten me as to what is happening, I simply won't pay
out the kind of money demanded again and will go elsewhere but I will
ask for a refund as I was not told further money would be asked of me.
I object if the only version I can use free is the basic version
having paid for the Pro version.
For now, that is the state of things but before I un-install it yet
again, can anyone enlighten me as to whether I have to relegate myself
to the basic version of ZA or install a different brand of Firewall. I
did write to ZA but have as yet got nothing back from them.
With thanks,

So how long (or how short) have you been using computers? Never heard
of subscriptions? Yes, you get to use the *software* lease indefinitely
after you purchase it. The updates are not part of the software you
purchased since obviously they cannot be included with the product at
the time of purchase. You get a *subscription* with the purchase that
lasts a year which allows you to download new signature files. You
think for $30 to $80 that you get infinite support for as long as you
live or the software survives on your computer and on the installation
media you got? The research, analysis, and resources used to provide
those updates cost money.

When you buy a printer, do you think you get a lifetime supply of toner
or cartridges? It is NOT like buying Word which is a static program
that can be usable over years or decades depending on you providing the
environment in which it can operate. Anti-virus software has to keep
changing to reflect the current status of threats. The product would be
worthless if all it protected you against was whatever was known at the
time the CD image was laid down a months, a year, or more, before even
when you bought the product.

With the typical rebates found on the products along with a discount for
purchasing an upgrade, the price for buying the next full version with
whatever improvements and bells it added is often close to the
subscription price. If you are purchasing hundreds, or more, copies for
your corporation then it makes sense to renew the subscription. For a
single personal purchase, the difference of $10 is little savings and
you might as well as buy the upgrade with its rebate.

Norton Internet Security 2004 *upgrade* = $39.95
Norton Internet Security 2003 *subscription* = $29.95
So for $10 more you get the subscription AND the newest version.

Norton AntiVirus 2004 *upgrade* = $29.95
Norton AntiVirus 2003 *subscription* = $19.95
For $10 more, you get the full new version plus 1-year subscription.

Kaspersky AntiVirus Personal 5 full version = $49.95
Key (subscription) = $49.95 (according to the order form)
Without a promotional code to enter in their order form, the user has no
clue as to what the subscription will actually cost. Apparently
returning customers get a 30% discount so the cost would be $14.99 less.

For a personal purchase, the difference in cost for getting a
subscription renewal to your old version versus getting the new version
is pretty small. Like printers are also known as "ink delivery systems"
because the money is made with the toner and cartridge sales, the
anti-virus products have become "subscription renewal systems" where the
cost of the product is only minimally greater than the subscription
itself. You're paying for their continued service during the
subscription and their software is simply the delivery system provided
to acquire that subscription.

 

[Derrick Fawsitt]

In message <[email protected]>, *Vanguard*

First of all, may I thank you for a most detailed, interesting and
helpful reply, may I very briefly defend myself as my original post was
produced at a time when I was in a considerable hurry and it has that
hallmark. For convenience and speed I will intersperse my comments
through your text.

So how long (or how short) have you been using computers? Quite a while now.
Never heard
of subscriptions?

Of course I have and don't mind an annual sub if I feel it is worth
while.

Yes, you get to use the *software* lease indefinitely
after you purchase it. The updates are not part of the software you
purchased since obviously they cannot be included with the product at
the time of purchase.

This is not true of quite a lot of software that I have on my PC, some
software does include free updates. However, when it does include
payment I don't mind paying it if it is a nominal sum as opposed to
paying what appears to be almost amounting to the original cost all over
again.

You get a *subscription* with the purchase that
lasts a year which allows you to download new signature files.

That should be made clear at the time of purchasing, I actually paid my
money to what appears to be a collecting agent and it is not made clear
that the so called purchase is a license that the software is only fully
updated for one year etc.

You
think for $30 to $80 that you get infinite support for as long as you
live or the software survives on your computer and on the installation
media you got? The research, analysis, and resources used to provide
those updates cost money.

In some cases that is built into the original purchase price.

When you buy a printer, do you think you get a lifetime supply of toner
or cartridges?

Of course not but with printers that is yet another rip off and everyone
knows it.

It is NOT like buying Word which is a static program
that can be usable over years or decades depending on you providing the
environment in which it can operate. Anti-virus software has to keep
changing to reflect the current status of threats. The product would be
worthless if all it protected you against was whatever was known at the
time the CD image was laid down a months, a year, or more, before even
when you bought the product.

OK, then try downloading AVG which is free and regularly updated, works
very well and has not cost "me" a penny, (sorry cent). However, I would
be prepared to pay a small amount each year to update it as it would
represent good value.

With the typical rebates found on the products along with a discount for
purchasing an upgrade, the price for buying the next full version with
whatever improvements and bells it added is often close to the
subscription price.

That's exactly what I am objecting to in the first place.

If you are purchasing hundreds, or more, copies for
your corporation then it makes sense to renew the subscription. For a
single personal purchase, the difference of $10 is little savings and
you might as well as buy the upgrade with its rebate.

Norton Internet Security 2004 *upgrade* = $39.95
Norton Internet Security 2003 *subscription* = $29.95
So for $10 more you get the subscription AND the newest version.

Norton AntiVirus 2004 *upgrade* = $29.95
Norton AntiVirus 2003 *subscription* = $19.95
For $10 more, you get the full new version plus 1-year subscription.

Kaspersky AntiVirus Personal 5 full version = $49.95
Key (subscription) = $49.95 (according to the order form)
Without a promotional code to enter in their order form, the user has no
clue as to what the subscription will actually cost. Apparently
returning customers get a 30% discount so the cost would be $14.99 less.

All of the above research is very interesting and much appreciated but I
don't agree with its implementation, that's all.

For a personal purchase, the difference in cost for getting a
subscription renewal to your old version versus getting the new version
is pretty small. Like printers are also known as "ink delivery systems"
because the money is made with the toner and cartridge sales, the
anti-virus products have become "subscription renewal systems" where the
cost of the product is only minimally greater than the subscription
itself. You're paying for their continued service during the
subscription and their software is simply the delivery system provided
to acquire that subscription.

The explanation of the reason for the undue cost does not excuse its
being charged in the first place. I have been on the ZA forum and a kind
chap told me to forget about the upgrades, keep my ZA as it is and
install a good adware and anti-virus system, he says "who needs the
upgrades" when you can cover your back door with other software and this
is what I will do. As you see, not all are in agreement with the
charging system.However, thank you again for your time and trouble, much appreciated.

 

[Alan]

Vanguard,

McAfee offers free updated Virus DAT files at www.McAfee.com on a weekly
basis, without anyone needing to pay for a subscription.

That said, McAfee also offers a yearly paid subscription (possibly for the
benefit of those who figure they are "more protected" if they pay for
something instead of getting it for free.)

I suppose my question is why a person would choose to pay for a yearly
subscription, whose cost is virtually the same as buying the regular retail
version, rather than downloading the weekly, free virus definition updates
that are offered?

Alan

 

[Derrick Fawsitt]

Vanguard,

McAfee offers free updated Virus DAT files at www.McAfee.com on a weekly
basis, without anyone needing to pay for a subscription.

That said, McAfee also offers a yearly paid subscription (possibly for the
benefit of those who figure they are "more protected" if they pay for
something instead of getting it for free.)

I suppose my question is why a person would choose to pay for a yearly
subscription, whose cost is virtually the same as buying the regular retail
version, rather than downloading the weekly, free virus definition updates
that are offered?

Alan

Exactly, QED, my very words exactly, (well very nearly), I was beginning
to doubt my own arguments so it good to hear your comments.

 

[Mike]

Derrick

Most warranties/guarantees are for one year only.. most subscriptions are
for one year only.. of course, there are companies who see fit to extend the
period, but they make you aware of this in bold lettering.. so we can safely
assume that if no mention is made of a longer
warranty/guarantee/subscription. then it will be for one year only..

Why is the printer ink issue a rip off?.. modern printers are way more ink
efficient than ever they used to be.. one would have to assume that you do
not have a barbeque because it would require a continual supply of gas..
what kind of rip off is that?

Your post came across as somebody whining about having to pay for a service
that somebody has expended time and expense providing.. your seeming
resistence to paying a reasonable amout marks you not as somebody who posted
in a hurry, but somebody who is a cheapskate/freeloader..

 

[Derrick Fawsitt]

Derrick
Mike.
Most warranties/guarantees are for one year only.. most subscriptions are
for one year only.. of course, there are companies who see fit to extend the
period, but they make you aware of this in bold lettering.. so we can safely
assume that if no mention is made of a longer
warranty/guarantee/subscription. then it will be for one year only..

I don't think that is true but perhaps I will leave it to others to take
you up on it. I have many programmes on my PC that not only never
charged me any more after my initial purchase, but if they did it was a
reasonable sum, reasonable being a sum of money that did not consist of
having to pay a similar amount to the original purchase price again or
at least was only a fraction of it. That is what I call "value" for
money and that is the essence of my complaint. I must add if that is
whinging or whining then I am an Englishman, (which I'm not) as they are
famous for whinging, are they not?

Why is the printer ink issue a rip off?.. modern printers are way more ink
efficient than ever they used to be.. one would have to assume that you do
not have a barbeque because it would require a continual supply of gas..
what kind of rip off is that?

Really! There have been so many articles supporting me in this that I
wonder what planet you inhabit. Are you one of us? Its the amount man,
not the fact that you have to pay for it. Obviously the gas for the
barbecue has to have a price but if it cost more than the barbecue each
time I would be eating indoors. Its the amount not the fact that it has
a price to pay.

Your post came across as somebody whining about having to pay for a service
that somebody has expended time and expense providing.. your seeming
resistence to paying a reasonable amout marks you not as somebody who posted
in a hurry, but somebody who is a cheapskate/freeloader..

Apart from your last few words to which I will not descend to give a
reply, I resent your taking me up on admitting in all honesty that I did
"type" my original post and "proof read" it so it was not as good as it
should have been, however, I was trying to make a point and hopefully I
have now clarified my opinion as I had intended to express them and will
now withdraw for others to take up the cudgel, hopefully not on me.
I give you good day and wish you better manners in the future.

 

[Derrick Fawsitt]

Apart from your last few words to which I will not descend to give a
reply, I resent your taking me up on admitting in all honesty that I
did "type" my original post and "proof read" it so it was not as good
as it should have been, however, I was trying to make a point and
hopefully I have now clarified my opinion as I had intended to express
them and will now withdraw for others to take up the cudgel, hopefully
not on me.
I give you good day and wish you better manners in the future.

(Typographical correction to the above paragraph)

My last paragraph should read "I did type my original post in haste and
did not "proof read" it so it was not as good as it should have been.

 

[*Vanguard*]

Mike said in

Why is the printer ink issue a rip off?.. modern printers are way
more ink efficient than ever they used to be.. one would have to
assume that you do not have a barbeque because it would require a
continual supply of gas.. what kind of rip off is that?

Actually the phrase "ink delivery system" (meaning the money is the
consumables and the printers were sold at near delivered cost or for
marginal markup) was something I heard from HP tech buddies. The money
wasn't in the printer. It was in the consumables. Obviously how much
you print affects how much you spend on consumables (but with ink jet
printers the cartridges will dry out and plug after long non-use so you
end up buying more, anyway). While $250 to $400 sounds like a lot for
laser printer, the money is in selling you the $100 toner cartridges.
With the much smaller capacity of ink jet cartridges, and costing $30
apiece, it doesn't take long to swamp the cost of the low-end printer.

Yes, we consumers aren't dumb and many (but not all) realize the revenue
is mainly garnered from the consumables (and a smart consumer checks
those costs before buying). But apparently consumers aren't always so
savvy in applying the same common sense regarding software
subscriptions - mostly because subscriptions are not seen as a
"consumable" but rather later recognized as an arbitrary expiration
based loosely on support costs and, in many cases, to subsidize
development costs although those should be covered by the sales of the
product itself.

 

[Mike]

An element of common sense has to be applied to 'consumables'.. "My printer
uses a bunch of glossy paper and ink every time that I use it".. the answer
is simple.. don't print every picture that you take on the digital camera,
or better still, don't print any pictures at all.. nobody is forcing us to
print 3000 pages per month, forcing us to make a bunch of unecessary short
journeys in our cars at 15mpg per trip, or forcing us to use 3 million btu's
of gas in our stove every billing period.. all of that is 'personal'
choice..

Re. the subscriptions issue, we have a choice too.. we either pay a small
charge at some point in the future for continued effort by somebody else
taking the time and expense to help protect us, or we dump the service and
go pay full price for somebody else's.. the original poster wants everything
for free or at minimal cost, but we all have to live.. maybe he should work
for 5c per hour or less so that the product or service that he produces can
be distibuted for free too..

 

[Derrick Fawsitt]

An element of common sense has to be applied to 'consumables'.. "My printer
uses a bunch of glossy paper and ink every time that I use it".. the answer
is simple.. don't print every picture that you take on the digital camera,
or better still, don't print any pictures at all.. nobody is forcing us to
print 3000 pages per month, forcing us to make a bunch of unecessary short
journeys in our cars at 15mpg per trip, or forcing us to use 3 million btu's
of gas in our stove every billing period.. all of that is 'personal'
choice..

.........and that is the procedure I follow now so it follows you agree
with me that the charges are exorbitant.

Re. the subscriptions issue, we have a choice too.. we either pay a small
charge at some point in the future for continued effort by somebody else
taking the time and expense to help protect us, or we dump the service and
go pay full price for somebody else's.. the original poster wants everything
for free or at minimal cost,

No, no, no, did you not read my last email, I want charges to be
reasonable. Go back and read what I wrote....

but we all have to live.. maybe he should work
for 5c per hour or less so that the product or service that he produces can
be distibuted for free too..

I do quite a lot for no fees and for worthy and charitable causes, what
evidence have you that I as you portray me. I gather you are quit a
distance away from me so have you invented some long distance
binoculars??

 

[*Vanguard*]

Mike said in news:Hl%[email protected]:

An element of common sense has to be applied to 'consumables'.. "My
printer uses a bunch of glossy paper and ink every time that I use
it".. the answer is simple.. don't print every picture that you take
on the digital camera, or better still, don't print any pictures at
all.. nobody is forcing us to print 3000 pages per month, forcing us
to make a bunch of unecessary short journeys in our cars at 15mpg per
trip, or forcing us to use 3 million btu's of gas in our stove every
billing period.. all of that is 'personal' choice..

Re. the subscriptions issue, we have a choice too.. we either pay a
small charge at some point in the future for continued effort by
somebody else taking the time and expense to help protect us, or we
dump the service and go pay full price for somebody else's.. the
original poster wants everything for free or at minimal cost, but we
all have to live.. maybe he should work for 5c per hour or less so
that the product or service that he produces can be distibuted for
free too..

My point is that most users still don't see subscriptions as consumables
in the same way the recognize physical components, like toners and
cartridges, as consumables. Anti-virus products, and similar security
products, like anti-spyware and firewall products, are a bit unique in
that they are the primary products that utilize subscriptions whereas
most application software does not. You buy Word and you get to use it
as long as you want. Those updates and patches cost money for the
resources involved, too, but you don't pay for them. Those updates and
patches are also in response to vulnerabilities and defects discovered
after the product's release, and some of them *DO* relate to viruses,
spyware, trojans, hacks, and in response to other malware or
malcontents.

In fact, isn't the class action suit now settled against McAfee regard
users that thought the product was *perpetual* in which lifetime updates
were expected (http://software.mcafee.com/lcas/)?