XP twice as fast as vista

S

Stephan Rose

Charlie said:
Sure. But w98 supports hdds up to 40gb (as opposed to 1.2gb for w95) and
also supports USB, which w95 does not.

Those were important new capabilities that the market clearly wanted by
the time Microsoft released w98.

What comparable new capabilities does Vista offer relative to XP?

Oh let's see....useless eye candy...
Ridiculous hardware requirements...
Restrictive environment..
Software and hardware incompatibility....
Less resources available for your apps...

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

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R

Robert Firth

Let's be serious for a moment. There are new (and quite important) features
in Vista. You are just being blinded by the shiny interface.

Try reading the 316 page product guide :)

--
/* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Robert Firth *
* Windows Vista x86 RTM *
* http://www.WinVistaInfo.org *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */
 
E

ekaulia

Surprise me self. using Vista Ultimate.
I assume it will be very slow with my 512MB PC.
Not So. It's actually quite fast, no slowdown, i turn on sidebar, aero, play
DVD and everything just smooth.
yes I could hear HD is Working, but the user interface and application
response very good.

Impressive.
 
S

Stephan Rose

ekaulia said:
Surprise me self. using Vista Ultimate.
I assume it will be very slow with my 512MB PC.
Not So. It's actually quite fast, no slowdown, i turn on sidebar, aero,
play DVD and everything just smooth.
yes I could hear HD is Working, but the user interface and application
response very good.

The thing is, "fast" and "slow" are extremely subjective.

Your system config right there sounds extremely slow...by my standards.
By *your* standards though it may be very fast...to you.

It varies greatly on the users needs and perception of speed and what they
are used to.



--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

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G

Guest

Latency determines perceptions of speed, how long till something happens. A
fast machine with slow hard drive will feel slower than a slow machine with
fast hard drive. I installed Win 2000 an 486s with no memory. They took a
long time to boot and load office, but once all the loading was out of the
way they worked fine.
 
K

kirk jim

I must correct this:
You are just being blinded by the VERY UGLY shiny interface.

Whoever uses vista is blind...
whoever LIKES vista is an idiot
 
H

Hurricane Andrew

Likely the graphics card, I'd wager. Since Vista uses a new display model,
the graphics card can be the most "visible" (pardon the pun) sign of
"sluggishness". In fact, under the hood, Vista is doing a lot more on a
regular basis, from indexing, to superfetch, etc. I run Folding@Home on all
of my systems, and on my dual boot Vista/XP boxes, it is quite easy to
measure the true speed difference between the two OS's, and consistently
Vista processes work units 6-10% faster than XP on identical hardware.
 
K

kirk jim

:) win2000 on a 486? how much ram? The lowest specs asked for a p133 with
64 ram for
win2k pro (not server)

I dont have a 486... lol but I did install xp on a pentium90 with64 ram just
to see if it would work..

it loaded but was struggling. Now there is
 
D

Diamontina Cocktail

Cymbal Man Freq. said:
| Get rid of indexing entirely in Vista and it works one HELL of a lot
faster.
| Indexing is a waste of time and effort.

I turned off indexing for Word XP on my 98SE machine, and that stopped the
machine from not functioning period.

?

Indexing on XP or Vista OS is a waste of processing time and needs to go
off. I am not talking about 98SE. That is dead.
 
L

Lang Murphy

Well... I guess I'll have to agree to disagree with you on GUI drawing
speeds. You don't disclose your hw setup, but I've run Vista on about 6
different types of PC models and the GUI's been fine on all of them. Even a
laptop with 512MB RAM and 64MB vid RAM.

The UI has changed. Not many folks like change. Period. Gotta learn new
stuff. My sister-in-law was here for a visit a few months ago and brought
along her Macbook laptop. I played around with it for a bit and was totally
confused as to how to find stuff and "how stuff worked." I've been working
with PC's as an IT guy for 20 years. But because I was unfamiliar with the
Mac OS, it was a challenge to figure out how certain stuff worked in just
one or two sittings. Had I sat at it day in and day out for a week, I
probably would've felt right at home.

What's your issue with "... the arrow that expands to more locations!"? I
don't find it all that confusing...

Lang
 
L

Lang Murphy

You're doing upgrades or clean installs?

What's your hw setup?

Just casting aspersions on Vista without disclosing what your issues are
will not allow anyone to assist you.

Lang
 
L

Lang Murphy

They are not the only two import points for upgrading to Vista. And not
everyone would agree with the previous poster that indexing is a waste of
time and effort. One person's post does not make their statement true.

I use both UAC and indexing and don't have a problem with either.

One of the important new features, imho, is that the UI is now drawn by
DirectX. Yes, that's what allows Aero to exist, but that's not why I like
it. I like it because it decouples drawing the UI from the CPU. Good: CPU
freed up to do CPU tasks instead of drawing the UI. Video related crashes
(read: crappy 3rd party device drivers) do not freeze the system anymore.
Bad: if one covets Aero, then one may have to upgrade one's video card.

Did you try the Beta or either of the RC's? Are you cognizant that most of
the folks that hang in this NG are either looking for solutions to problems
or are trolls looking to cast aspersions on Vista every chance they get? And
that most folks who have little or no problems with Vista don't usually pop
in to say "Had a great day, no problems with Vista?"

Lang
 
S

Stephan Rose

Lang said:
They are not the only two import points for upgrading to Vista. And not
everyone would agree with the previous poster that indexing is a waste of
time and effort. One person's post does not make their statement true.

I use both UAC and indexing and don't have a problem with either.

One of the important new features, imho, is that the UI is now drawn by
DirectX. Yes, that's what allows Aero to exist, but that's not why I like
it. I like it because it decouples drawing the UI from the CPU. Good: CPU
freed up to do CPU tasks instead of drawing the UI. Video related crashes
(read: crappy 3rd party device drivers) do not freeze the system anymore.
Bad: if one covets Aero, then one may have to upgrade one's video card.

Actually no it does not decouple the drawing from the UI.

GDI is still doing the drawing on CPU. The only difference is that its
render target is a texture being project onto a quad that is your window.

It *does* eliminate the need to have the GDI redraw the window when you say
move a window or switch between windows. The textured copy in memory can
just be redrawn by the video hardware and hence the perceived speedup.

GDI in itself though is still a dog and is still done by the CPU as it has
always been...

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

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K

kirk jim

you lie.. there was a xp- vista comparisson test done on a site...
cant remember where it was...

vista was slower on most applications

sorry
 
L

Lang Murphy

I guess I stand corrected... although there seems to be, in your reply, some
indication that the model is different and improved over XP.

Lang
 
S

Stephan Rose

Lang said:
I guess I stand corrected... although there seems to be, in your reply,
some indication that the model is different and improved over XP.

Well this is basically what the difference is:

Under XP or any other previous versions of Windows whenever you draw
something it is generally drawn immediately to the screen. That is why you
can see the drawing. There is no double buffering.

In .Net 1.0 and up applications, you can turn on double buffering which
eliminates that problem. In that case, data is drawn to an off-screen
memory buffer and when done, this buffer is copied to the screen. Advantage
here is that the user cannot see the screen build up as it happens
off-screen, disadvantage though is that it carries a performance penalty
since this double buffer has to be copied to the screen now every time.

Not very many apps use that though and with the performance (or lack
thereof) of GDI it is not suitable for anything that needs to draw a lot of
stuff multiple times per second. The average app though only rarely needs
to redraw so it isn't really an issue for most applications.

Now what Vista does with their hardware accelerated desktop...they basically
eliminate the need for the application to double buffer their drawing...all
drawing is double buffered at all times. All applications, no matter what,
draw to an off-screen surface. The app doesn't even know its doing it nor
can it control it. It simply calls its GDI drawing functions as it always
has and the GDI function does what it needs to do.

The difference though is that the double buffer on a 3D Accelerated desktop
is a texture map residing in video memory of the video card. So once the
application has finished drawing...this texture map can be rendered onto a
polygon extremely fast. This can be just a simple quad, or a grid of quads,
or any other arbitrary shape.

This is the reason why such desktops can display previews of the app when
you switch between them as by design they have a copy of all the
application graphics as a texture.

This is also the reason why you can move apps around on the screen or do any
other things with the window that do not require a re-draw of its controls
extremely fast.

All that is being done in that case is that the texture mapped polygons are
being rendered in a different location. That is something that todays 3D
Accelerator can do extremely fast.

The same thing goes with the transparency they are so proud of. It is just a
simple side effect of using texture mapped polygons. A vertex at the very
least has to contain coordinates where it is located. But you can also add
color information to each vertex. Now when you do that, the video card will
in hardware modulate each pixel of the texture with the color information
of the vertex. If the vertex color contains only 50% alpha then the texture
map will be 50% alpha blended as a result of the modulation resulting in a
transparent window.

There's nothing special or revolutionary to it. The games you play have been
doing it for a long long long time.

The only thing that is ridiculous in Vista's case is the high hardware
requirement for this. Everything I've stated above could be done with a
legacy TNT 2 without the video card even breaking a sweat!

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

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K

kirk jim

The only thing that is ridiculous in Vista's case is the high hardware
requirement for this. Everything I've stated above could be done with a
legacy TNT 2 without the video card even breaking a sweat!

Glad to see that at least ONE person understands one of the things I have
been complaining about!
 

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