XP-pro & DOS

[Helmut Mellin]

I was offered a used Laptop with Win-XP Professional
installed. Can someone tell me if under XP-pro is also a
DOS-Emulator installed like under XP-home, so that I can run
DOS-Programms like under XP-home?

Thanks a lot!

Helmut

 

[alpha]

I was offered a used Laptop with Win-XP Professional
installed. Can someone tell me if under XP-pro is also a
DOS-Emulator installed like under XP-home, so that I can run
DOS-Programms like under XP-home?

Thanks a lot!

Helmut,
Yes - If your DOS-Programs run on XP-home, then they should
run on XP-Pro.

 

[Olórin]

I was offered a used Laptop with Win-XP Professional
installed. Can someone tell me if under XP-pro is also a
DOS-Emulator installed like under XP-home, so that I can run
DOS-Programms like under XP-home?

Thanks a lot!

Helmut

No DOS emulator comes with XP Home or Pro. If you had one installed on an XP
Home machine, you will need to install it yourself on the XP Pro laptop.

You may be thinking of the Command Prompt that is available via the Start
Menu, Programs > Accessories (or Start > Run > cmd). This brings up a
DOS-like Window and is available on both XP Home and Pro.

It's hard to know what you mean by your "so that I can run DOS-Programms
like under XP-home". Depending on the game, you may need to set its shortcut
to run in XP's Compatibility Mode or look at a DOS emulator like DOSBox.

Closing comment: the first thing I'd do with a used laptop is format the
drives and install Windows afresh - otherwise you will never be sure of what
may be installed on, saved in or lurking within it. Whether you do this or
not, be sure - before purchase! - that the seller provides you with a CD or
other means of being able to install Windows, should you ever wish/need to
do so.

 

[Twayne]

wrote in
message

Yes. Home or Pro have the same capabilities w/r
to running the older DOS versio programs. If it
runs on one, it should run on the other.

The below post is so far out in left field as to
be able to be ignored. The Command Prompt, often
called the DOS window, even by Microsoft, IS the
DOS emulator. It runs a lot of the standard DOS
commands most are used to and a huge number of
other added commands native to XP.
Confusing the issue with the backwards
description below is silly and uncalled for and an
egotistical attempt to do who knows what.

If your DOS programs ran on Home, they're 99.9%
likely to run the same way on XP Pro. No problem.

Regards,

Twayne

 

[John John (MVP)]

Yes. Home or Pro have the same capabilities w/r
to running the older DOS versio programs. If it
runs on one, it should run on the other.

The below post is so far out in left field as to
be able to be ignored. The Command Prompt, often
called the DOS window, even by Microsoft, IS the
DOS emulator. It runs a lot of the standard DOS
commands most are used to and a huge number of
other added commands native to XP.

No, the Command Prompt is *NOT* the DOS emulator! On NT type operating
systems DOS programs are run inside the NT Virtual DOS Machine, aka
ntvdm.exe. The Command Prompt is a *pure* 32-bit Command Line
Processor, 16-bit legacy DOS Programs cannot run in that environment.

John

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I was offered a used Laptop with Win-XP Professional
installed. Can someone tell me if under XP-pro is also a
DOS-Emulator installed like under XP-home, so that I can run
DOS-Programms like under XP-home?

I don't know what you mean by a "DOS-Emulator installed like under
XP-home," but I can assure you that there is *nothing* in XP Home that
is not also in XP Professional. XP Professional and XP Home are
exactly the same in all respects, except that Professional has a few
features (mostly related to networking and security) missing from
Home.

 

[Robert Schiele]

I was offered a used Laptop with Win-XP Professional
installed. Can someone tell me if under XP-pro is also a
DOS-Emulator installed like under XP-home, so that I can run
DOS-Programms like under XP-home?

Thanks a lot!

Helmut

You can get a freeware program called "DOX-Box." It runs under all versions
of Windows, plus Linux as well. I'm running it on XP Pro and finds that it
works very well for playing old DOS games and so on. The url is:
http://www.dosbox.com and the software and download are free.

 

[alpha]

No, the Command Prompt is *NOT* the DOS emulator! On NT type
operating systems DOS programs are run inside the NT Virtual DOS
Machine, aka ntvdm.exe. The Command Prompt is a *pure* 32-bit
Command Line Processor, 16-bit legacy DOS Programs cannot run in that
environment.

John,
You are describing the CMD prompt (CMD.exe, not COMMAND.com).

According to Win-Explorer, COMMAND.com is an 'MS-DOS Application'.
Launching COMMAND.com will launch NTVDM.exe process, and present a
console window with this text:

Microsoft(R) Windows DOS
(C)Copyright Microsoft Corp 1990-2001.

C:\DOCUME~1\ALPHA>

So is that window a 'DOS-Box/emulator', or what?

On XP Pro, I use COMMAND.com to read 3.5" floppy-disks without a
media-descriptor byte (with which CMD.exe has difficulty,
and Win-Explorer is unable to do).
I also use 16-bit Apps such as QBASIC.exe, which launch NTVDM.exe.
Am I using a DOS emulator, or what?

Regardless of what else DSH claims, it is correct to say
'The Command Prompt, often called the DOS window, even by Microsoft,'
because Microsoft cannot agree amongst itself on what to call anything
within Microsoft, let alone anything outside of it.
(Do not ask Raymond Chen [MSFT] about XP's System Tray).
This misleads DSH to wrongly thinking that CMD 'IS the DOS emulator'.

Back on-topic: Do you agree that under 'XP-pro, [the OP] can
run DOS-Programms like under XP-home'? (assuming that the OP is able
to run them on his 'out-of-the-box-XP-home' PC.)

 

[John John (MVP)]

John,
You are describing the CMD prompt (CMD.exe, not COMMAND.com).

According to Win-Explorer, COMMAND.com is an 'MS-DOS Application'.
Launching COMMAND.com will launch NTVDM.exe process, and present a
console window with this text:

Microsoft(R) Windows DOS
(C)Copyright Microsoft Corp 1990-2001.

C:\DOCUME~1\ALPHA>

So is that window a 'DOS-Box/emulator', or what?

Yes but the "emulator" isn't provided by Command.COM as such, as you
said, the NT operating system (XP) had to start NTVDM.exe to run the
16-bit Command.COM application, take a look in the Task Manager and you
will not see Command.COM on the list of Running Processes, but you will
see an instance of ntvdm.exe running, keep the Task Manager on top and
kill Command.COM and watch NTVDM.exe die with it. Command.COM is simply
another 16-bit application that like all others can only be run inside
the NTVDM, it cannot run in the 32-bit environment.

On XP Pro, I use COMMAND.com to read 3.5" floppy-disks without a
media-descriptor byte (with which CMD.exe has difficulty,
and Win-Explorer is unable to do).

Yes, I have seen and heard about this missing MD byte on floppy disks
and DOS applications not being too fussy about this missing bit so they
can read diskettes when the byte is missing.

I also use 16-bit Apps such as QBASIC.exe, which launch NTVDM.exe.
Am I using a DOS emulator, or what?

*ALL* 16-bit legacy applications on NT type operating systems run inside
the NT Virtual DOS Machine (NTVDM), they cannot run in the pure 32-bit
Windows NT environment, they must run inside a virtual machine of sorts.
NTVDM.exe is the native NT/2000/XP DOS VM, it is a "Virtual Machine"
but I suppose you could call it an emulator if you want to call it that.

Regardless of what else DSH claims, it is correct to say
'The Command Prompt, often called the DOS window, even by Microsoft,'
because Microsoft cannot agree amongst itself on what to call anything
within Microsoft, let alone anything outside of it.
(Do not ask Raymond Chen [MSFT] about XP's System Tray).
This misleads DSH to wrongly thinking that CMD 'IS the DOS emulator'.

There are a lot of misconceptions about DOS and NT type operating
systems and the CMD.exe Command Line Interpreter. There is *no* DOS in
NT operating systems and the Command Prompt is *NOT* a DOS window or a
DOS box, it is a 32-bit CLI that runs in a Win32 console window, 16-bit
applications *cannot* be run inside this Win32 console application.

Back on-topic: Do you agree that under 'XP-pro, [the OP] can
run DOS-Programms like under XP-home'? (assuming that the OP is able
to run them on his 'out-of-the-box-XP-home' PC.)

Yes, as other have pointed out, if the DOS application runs on Windows
XP Home Edition it will run on the 32-bit XP Pro version without any
problems, these two Windows XP versions handle 16-bit applications in
the very same manner.

John

 

[Olórin]

Twayne - Despite my having killfiled you long ago on grounds of your
intolerable rudeness, I was unfortunate enough to see your comment on my
post by virtue of it being quoted in someone else's reply. I've gone to the
trouble of un-plonking you so I could let you know what I thought, although
I can't believe I'm wasting breath on you. See inline. If you can defend
yourself without resorting to insults or abusiveness, that would be as
refreshing as it would be unlikely. I posed the rhetorical question "What's
your problem?" regarding you last year, but I'm no closer to understanding
(nor, really, giving a flying fig).

Yes. Home or Pro have the same capabilities w/r to running the older DOS
versio programs. If it runs on one, it should run on the other.

Natively, yes, But the OP used the ambiguous term "DOS-Emulator" and talked
about it being "installed", so I thought it worth bringing up the subject of
third-party DOS emulators like DOSBox (as opposed to the Command Prompt) in
case OP was running his XP Home programs under one of those. If he had been,
then tried to run them natively on this XP Pro laptop and they didn't work,
your advice was worthless. I don't call that "confusing the issue", I'd
call it trying to cover all possibilities.

The below post is so far out in left field as to be able to be ignored.

Let's leave Helmut to judge that for himself. I see you don't even deign to
go into what makes it so "left field".

The Command Prompt, often

called the DOS window, even by Microsoft, IS the DOS emulator. It runs a
lot of the standard DOS commands most are used to and a huge number of
other added commands native to XP.
Confusing the issue with the backwards description below

What on earth is a "backwards description"? Please describe that to me
(forwards, if there are options).

is silly and uncalled for and an egotistical attempt to do who knows what.

As is so often the case with you, you're unable to resist making some sort
of personal attack, however ill-founded. What was egotistical about what I
said, exactly? How was my post silly, inaccurate or unhelpful, in any way at
all?

If your DOS programs ran on Home, they're 99.9% likely to run the same way
on XP Pro. No problem.

*Not* if they had to be run under an emulator on XP Home. And "the same way"
might need to include tweaks on the Compatibility tab of the programs'
shortcuts' Properties tabs.

 

[Twayne]

No, the Command Prompt is *NOT* the DOS
emulator! On NT
type operating systems DOS programs are run
inside the NT
Virtual DOS Machine, aka ntvdm.exe. The Command
Prompt
is a *pure* 32-bit Command Line Processor,
16-bit legacy
DOS Programs cannot run in that environment.
John

Ohh, here we go again, the pundits who love
confusing things with technical facts always come
crawling out of the walls at times like this.
You're doing a half-fast description here, but I
can tell you're doing nothing but parroting what
you think you've read. From the HELP & Support
for XP, you'll find all kinds of references such
as:

MS-DOS overview
MS-DOS, the acronym for Microsoft Disk Operating
System, is an operating system with a command-line
interface used on personal computers. As with
other operating systems such as OS/2, it
translates keyboard input by the user into
operations the computer can perform, it also
oversees operations such as disk input and output,
video support, keyboard control, and many internal
functions related to program execution and file
maintenance.
You *type MS-DOS commands* using a *command prompt
window*. To end your MS-DOS session, type exit in
the command prompt window at the blinking cursor.
The *MS-DOS mode* is a shell in which the *MS-DOS
environment is emulated* in 32-bit systems, such
as Windows. MS-DOS-based programs can run with
Windows and might create a program information
file (PIF) which appears as a shortcut on your
desktop.
*Open the Command Prompt window.*
Notes
To open a command prompt, click Start, point to
Programs, point to Accessories, and then click
Command Prompt.
Creating a program information file (PIF) for an
MS-DOS-based program creates a shortcut to the
program executable. All the settings saved in the
PIF file are contained in the shortcut.

and:

Managing disks and volumes from the command line
In addition to using the *Disk Management
snap-in*, you can *use command-line utilities* to
manage disks and volumes.
For example, you can use:
Chkdsk to check disks for errors and repair any
errors found.
....

and a host of others that show up. Instead of
trying to falsely impress people with your
acquired buzz-word collection and mystify newbies
by confusing issues with facts, you should put
your talents to some practical use.

For DOS commands, programs, environmentals, etc.,
you use the COMMAND LINE to run them. NOT
somethign that boldly and obviously differentiates
between 16 or 32 bit apps/capabilities or anything
else. If you want to "emulate" DOS, you use the
Command Line Interface or an app that usess the
same provisions.

 

[Twayne]

lol, based on the first para visible on the
screen, there is no need for me to read any
further. I don't GAS what you think and have no
intention of petting your ego.
Happy computing; I know it's impossible for
some people.

Twayne

 

[John John (MVP)]

Ohh, here we go again, the pundits who love
confusing things with technical facts always come
crawling out of the walls at times like this.

MS-DOS runs at *a* command prompt, like it did in the old MS-DOS OS or
in the legacy Windows 9x operating systems. Does that mean that *all*
command prompts are MS-DOS? If you are running Linux commands at a
command prompt are you running MS-DOS? As usual, you don't know what
you are talking about so you post ignorant FUD! MS-DOS programs cannot
and do not run in the 32-bit Windows NT environment, and they don't run
at the 32-bit CMD.exe Command Line Interpreter, if you are cannot
understand this and if you are too stubborn to accept that on NT
operating systems 16-bit MS-DOS programs need to be run inside a Virtual
Machine then there is really nothing that anyone can do to help you.

John

 

[Peter Foldes]

No. DOS Emulator has to be downloaded and installed. You are probably thinking of
the Command Prompt which is not a DOS Emulator.

 

[Olórin]

Annotating the part of my post you deigned to read:

"If you can defend yourself[1] without resorting to insults or
abusiveness[2], that would be as refreshing as it would be unlikely."

[1] Apparently not at all

[2] I thought not

Re-*plonk*.

 

[alpha]

... Re-*plonk*.
... killfiled ... un-plonking ... wasting breath ... flying fig...

I always wondered what 'plonk' meant. Now I know. Thanks!


So then what does XP's ntvdm.exe do, if it does not emulate DOS?
How are third-party DOS emulators like DOSBox different from
ntvdm.exe? Do they have a superset of capabilities or do they
just handle edge/corner cases that ntvdm.exe is not able to?

 

[Olórin]

I always wondered what 'plonk' meant. Now I know. Thanks!



So then what does XP's ntvdm.exe do, if it does not emulate DOS?
How are third-party DOS emulators like DOSBox different from
ntvdm.exe? Do they have a superset of capabilities or do they
just handle edge/corner cases that ntvdm.exe is not able to?

I don't know the technical stuff on the differences - there are others here
who can advise on that. What I know is just that it looks rather like DOS
and will do for many applications (well, okay - games...); for the others,
it's worth trying DOSBox or similar. The latter can be a bit of a beggar to
get sound working under.

If someone started talking about "a DOS-emulator I've got installed on my XP
machine", my first thought wouldn't be of the Command Prompt (although I
wouldn't discount it, either). On the other hand, if they said, "the DOS
that comes with XP" then (the right or wrongs of their choice of terms
aside) it would be.